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 Post subject: Lasers
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:14 pm 
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I'm painfully bored at work and happened upon an article about the navy getting ready to put a weaponized laser on one of their ships. Forgive my rambling.

Lets say in the not too distant future, the weapon platform has become small enough to fit on a humvee or some sort of APC. We've seen the vids of a laser burning through a drone or a ship's engine in a pretty short time frame. How long would it take for said laser to cook a zombie brain? Now pair that with some sort of smart targeting/image recognition system that can lock on, burn, and repeat in a quick manner. Boom, zombie laser. Put few of those on the perimeter of your super secret missile silo bunker and catch some Z's.

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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:07 pm 
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If you can afford it, sure. But I'd venture that anyone who can afford an array of weaponized lasers could afford all sorts of solutions the rest of us can only lust after. A scenic but remote property to live on, for starters.

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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:40 pm 
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A remote property with scenic views and lasers?

Yep, you'd have to be richer than Batman to have such a thing, but a guy can dream can't he?

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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:39 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:23 pm 
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20 years ago with an electrical laser the size of a small office building you could burn through several inches of armored aluminum in about 3 seconds at a range of 20 miles. An up close zombie would be smoked a bit quicker than that. The laser was burning through 20 miles of air, which is literally tons and tons of air.

The amount of energy required to make an effective laser makes a cost prohibited weight ratio. There is no way to make one small enough to carry and have enough energy to be effective. Put it on a big ship with a nuclear reactor and you have a game changer.

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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:56 pm 
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Stercutus wrote:
There is no way to make one small enough to carry and have enough energy to be effective.


Oh ye of little faith.

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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:02 pm 
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Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
There is no way to make one small enough to carry and have enough energy to be effective.


Oh ye of little faith.


By "effective" I mean you give up range, capacity, and/ or lethality to make a conventional gun much more appealing by comparison.

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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:22 pm 
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Everything will be smaller, lighter, more powerful, and more expensive, sooner than you think.

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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:34 pm 
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Any laser capable of burning through a human head in under a second requires a lot of energy. Add to that the stipulation that it has to do this over and over again and you need a power source with a tremendous amount of stored energy. Any such weapon small enough to carry would ostensibly be a bomb.


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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:03 am 
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Why not use a laser which can blind? Or even just dazzle? A blind zombie is one that is considerably less dangerous and easier to put down.

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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:39 am 
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Don't high output lasers require more that just electricity?
Such as gases (co2, neon, etc)

Not to mention maintenance and tlc, would be a bitch in zpaw

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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:33 pm 
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Sen wrote:
Any laser capable of burning through a human head in under a second requires a lot of energy. Add to that the stipulation that it has to do this over and over again and you need a power source with a tremendous amount of stored energy. Any such weapon small enough to carry would ostensibly be a bomb.


Decades ago the military had lasers powerful enough to blind rather than kill. The outcry over fielding them was substantial. People would rather you just blow up the enemy and kill them rather than simply blind them..

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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:28 am 
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gunsandrockets wrote:
Why not use a laser which can blind? Or even just dazzle? A blind zombie is one that is considerably less dangerous and easier to put down.


1)
This depends on the zombie fiction you're talking about. Biologically speaking, if the zombie's body is physiologically dead, and there is no magical hocus pocus allowing for significant cellular regeneration then zombie eye sight is going to be pretty much nil in very little time.

2)
I believe, technically, a zombie should be susceptible to blindness or strobes. The effect of a strobe is an automatic response of blindness/disorientation. That would still impact a zombie brain, unless the people writing the fiction decide that zombies have sight, but are incapable of registering more light than is comfortable for their sensory capabilities. Zombies don't feel pain (or don't react to it the way we do), but this response is separate.

3)
Significant resources spent crippling a zombie rather than just killing it is a pretty substantial waste in a zombie apocalypse. Zombies are easy to kill. Of course you can always concoct a scenario where blinding a zombie or a group of zombies is exactly what anyone would want. Too many separate "what ifs" are involved in a scenario where you have more than enough power, can power a high energy drain weapon that does not currently exist with a high capacity energy source that does nott currently exist, all because you want/need to blind a group of zombies without killing them, or incapacitating them beyond the loss of sight.

Don't get me wrong. If we're making a wish list of futuristic technology to have in a zombie apocalypse, a nuclear power plant powering motion sensing perimeter laser batteries capable of head shots sounds pretty sweet to me!


Related To Lasers.
The effect of the crowd control microwave weapons may be usable to fry the brain insight the skull (after enough time). These are real devices employed in different places in the world. Now, I still think the amount of resources needed to use a device like this, and the time required to use it would make these less than desirable in most situations. It may be easier to make use of something like this as a defensive weapon on a wall heating up zombies that are basically stationary, and because this runs on electricity this may be more useful than using fire to try and do the same thing. But, I still think it would use fewer resources over all to just use a long spear to stab zombies from a safe distance (like on a catwalk above the wall, or through a chain link fence ....).


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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:25 am 
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zero11010 wrote:
gunsandrockets wrote:
Why not use a laser which can blind? Or even just dazzle? A blind zombie is one that is considerably less dangerous and easier to put down.



3)
Significant resources spent crippling a zombie rather than just killing it is a pretty substantial waste in a zombie apocalypse. Zombies are easy to kill. Of course you can always concoct a scenario where blinding a zombie or a group of zombies is exactly what anyone would want. Too many separate "what ifs" are involved in a scenario where you have more than enough power, can power a high energy drain weapon that does not currently exist with a high capacity energy source that does nott currently exist, all because you want/need to blind a group of zombies without killing them, or incapacitating them beyond the loss of sight.

.


A blinding laser or laser dazzler does not require significant resources, and has significant tactical advantages.

Quite powerful hand held battery powered lasers with enough output to blind are available for less money than the cost of a good rifle optical sight.

In theory one handheld laser could blind dozens of zombies and in complete silence before the battery is expended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1pXhhtUaso

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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:11 pm 
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gunsandrockets wrote:
A blinding laser or laser dazzler does not require significant resources, and has significant tactical advantages.

Quite powerful hand held battery powered lasers with enough output to blind are available for less money than the cost of a good rifle optical sight.

In theory one handheld laser could blind dozens of zombies and in complete silence before the battery is expended.



You're absolutely right! I was still envisioning a giant theoretical laser used for destruction but dialed back for blinding. I was not thinking about existing handheld lasers today.

Yep, blinding a zombie can be done in a variety of ways and using a pen laser is one of them. I imagine you can rig the laser to draw power from a much larger battery source (like a car battery) and have power for a long time (particularly with solar cells able to charge the batteries). However, as I mention above I have difficulty imagining wanting to blind zombies instead of just taking them out.

"I'm in a decrepit building with injured survivors and surrounded by 50 zombies. Out of ammo and running low on supplies. Have no way to manually kill the zombies from a safe location with a tool (over a barrier, reaching down below from above them, reaching through fencing). I have a high powered pen laser and batteries (for some reason). The injured cannot evade all of the zombies in an escape attempt, and I cannot fight my way out alone. So, I'm going to sit in place and blind the one or two dozen zombies covering one escape direction to effectively reduce their numbers to allow us to fight/evade the remainder."

Incapacitating zombies is possible. Why would you want to do that instead of killing them? It's so easy to manufacture a fortified location to kill them a few at a time that a larger issue becomes dealing with the increasing pile of bodies and the risk of your protective walls becoming compromised by a pile/ramp of corpses.

So, blind them with a laser. Deafen them with horns. Cover yourself in the guts of the undead to block your scent. Then, walk right past them and they won't know you're there. This is sounds pretty far fetched. Theoretically possible, but it depends on too many what if's. And the noise would attract more zombies to deal with.


Can you guys help me see a use for blinding zombies as a reasonable tactic?

I think I'd rather attach a bayonet or even a .22 zip to the front of my AR than attach a laser and try to blind each eye on a zombie.


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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:53 pm 
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In my review of available Zombie Training Films, I have observed that zombies often lack eyes entirely.

Just saying.

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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:06 pm 
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What is the point of a blinding/dazzling laser? Economy of force.

If possible firearm ammunition should be conserved for high threat conditions, so if practical lone zombies should be put down with simple renewable (and quieter) weapons such as spears and clubs. Blinding a zombie first makes culling safer.

There may be circumstances where it is impractical to destroy a zombie at a distance with a firearm. But still practical to blind the zombie with a laser, thereby reducing the threat (although not eliminating it).

There may be circumstances where because of security, infirmity or lack of training some members of a survivor group should not be trusted with firearms. But even cheap Walmart 5 milliwatt green laser pointers could enable those people to usefully contribute to the groups ranged defense effort.

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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:35 pm 
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And then there is this:

"Boeing and the US Army have demonstrated the capabilities of the truck-mounted High Energy Laser Mobile Demonstrator (HEL MD) under maritime conditions (i.e., wind and fog), successfully targeting a variety of aerial targets at Eglin Air Force Base in Florida. The demonstrator is the first mobile, high-energy laser, counter rocket, artillery and mortar (C-RAM) platform to be built and demonstrated by the US Army."

link

According to the article, the current version is only 10 kW, but they are trying to get to 100 kW in the next couple of years.

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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:04 pm 
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Game changer.

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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:16 pm 
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As long as the zombies did not start wearing mirrored sunglasses
I think lasers could work.

"Long term bugout with zombie eyeball lasering capability."
Has a certain ring to it. And it would save ammo. Many think that if they cannot see you they just walk in circles and you can quietly pass by. The Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons does not forbid lasering dead people like zombies. No war crime involved.

A source of energy to recharge the laser is needed. Big solar panel would do.

Mount it on a electric motor assisted bicycle so it and you and
BOB are mobile. This vid of an ebike that crossed the Sahara in 2013 shows
one possible solution youtube.com/watch?v=pPt2Qcf4Ds8

Another ebike solution with a mobile solar power source
youtube.com/watch?v=5_SGoka_LzI

For a scary high power laser shotgun see: styropyro videos
on youtube. His 40w laser shotgun prototype looks promising
for keeping packs of zombies dazzled till you are out of
their acquisition radius.

styropyro
youtube.com/watch?v=iVrJUbeuG44


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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:29 pm 
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mark9atq wrote:
As long as the zombies did not start wearing mirrored sunglasses
I think lasers could work.


Can we have a series where they do? Mental image unlocked.

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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:19 pm 
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Interesting to see new thoughts on this capability. Over two decades ago when it became a real possibility, people began to seriously look into it. Some focused on burning optics. It grew from ideas and papers to long meetings with credentialed peoples. Then, in 1995, the ICRS weighed in:

New Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons: https://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/misc/57jn4y.htm
IHL: http://www.redcross.org/images/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m22303661_IHL-FAQ.pdf (pp. 21)

Still, I find it useful to read all sorts of ideas and new approaches.

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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:28 am 
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Image I felt this was perfectly appropriate for this topic. Please continue.


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 Post subject: Re: Lasers
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:07 am 
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Funny, but then I was an honors student in my sarcasm courses.

Yes, thoughts on lasers? Here's a refinement of the topic: If you found yourself suddenly unable to see (total darkness) and you were to hear a voice over a loudspeaker saying that if you would surrender you would be given aid and safety, would you fight on? (Note: I didn't use the "B" word. Try to avoid it as well, if you can.)

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