Always Aim for the Head, Right?

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Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by Dash » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:59 pm

Mostly right.

Anyone who has seen a zombie movie, or heard someone talking about a zombie movie, or ever watched a program that references zombies in anyways knows…
  • Aim for the head.
    Destroy the brain.
    Go for the grey matter.
Shooting anywhere else is a waste of ammo, right?

I wouldn’t go that far. First off, always aiming for head shot is gonna “waste” a lot of ammo, unless you are a crack-shot or get up close and personal. Becoming a crack shot can take some time, and even crack-shots can miss one target in a firefight, and getting all up in the zombie’s business sort of defeats the purpose of a projectile weapon.

That being said, the brain is the sure fire way to kill a zombie, as well as pretty much everything else. A well placed bullet in that reanimated nun’s noodle will do the trick, but a spine or leg shot will slow that bitch down.Killing every zombie that crosses your path is a good way to end up zombie food, most people will agree. In a world of 7 billion people, you aren’t gonna put a huge dent in the zombie population.

In most cases, a firearm should only be used when absolutely necessary to avoid attracting attention, and missing a critical head shot could mean your ass, or someone in your group. Going for a crippling, but not fatal spine/leg shot that you can hit 100% of the time, is better than a head shot you can hit 98% of the time. That extra bullet will be a very generous price for a life.

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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by AUA » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:37 am

Go for the kneecaps, I always say.

But yeah. To be honest, unless you have to, there's not much point in fighting zombies at all, for the reasons mentioned; but by that reasoning, if you do end up 'having' to kill a zombie, it's probably at close range or when the zombie is blocking a path that you must go through. Might as well end it quickly rather than leaving the issue open for further waste of resources.

Any appendage used for movement (arm, leg) is going to be an even worse target than the head; at least the head is limited to moving relative to the spinal cord. The spinal cord is also bad, because you'll need something with penetrating power to punch through the vertebrae, the organs, and probably the sternum/ribs, you'll need to actually hit the thing (the spine is at least 2 times thinner than the head, and no hits other than those that directly impact at or near the spinal cord center will have the effect), and it'd be difficult to judge perfectly centered shot placement while the zombie is attacking. By the time you hit the spinal cord in the field, you've probably already peppered center of mass and have killed the zombie through blunt exsanguination (and also used up several rounds doing it).

I figure we might as well use the Failure-to-Stop Drill (double-tap to the chest, wait for effect, single shot aimed at the head to finish off if needed) if a zombie needs to be stopped. Not like you'd ever shoot your way out of a mob of more than a handful of zombies anyway (run, yes, but not shoot).

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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by MadMock » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:40 am

Out of sixty rounds I shoot 100% from 25 yards with my P226. I am in a comfortable shooting stance and my paper target is stationary. Anyone that has been in any combat scenario will tell you that grip, sight picture, and breathing go out the window.
Best case scenario is you have optics zeroed out and you can maintain proper trigger squeeze. If you have these two things, you should be able to pop off as many head shots as needed. But I do agree that avoidance is always option 1. Option 2 should be incapacition. If no other options are viable, flank the zeds, maintain a crossfire, and do what god made us to do.
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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by azrael99 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:02 am

make me remember of my tread "aim at the brain, ok but where" http://ww42.zombiehunters.org/forum/vie ... 20&t=89051" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

i don't try to resurrect my tread, but i think there is MANY great info that was left in my tread that could be used in your tread

one thing, destroying the brain is probably the safest way to neutralize a "zed" but the whole nerve system can be aimed at,

if you snap the spine , then you just paralyzed EVERYTHING under the point of impact, if you break the neck instead of the head, then what is left is a snapping trap that unable to move. a single hit to the head after will take care of it

if you disable the arm , the hand or dislocate the jaw, then the "zed" aren't that much of a treat.

put a bucket on their head then you just need to take care of their hand.
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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by STGHill » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:23 pm

It seems that all the best places to shoot a zombie are relatively small targets. Yes, you want to aim for the head in order to hit the brain. But what if you shoot them in the lower face and it exits without doing major damage to the brain? You have to aim for the forehead. Even then, it can depend on the type of zombie. If it's an infection, then maybe it only activated certain areas of the brain, making the target even smaller.

As someone mentioned above, kneecaps are also a good idea. But one could argue that they would be even harder to hit than the forehead. The knees move more and faster. And they tend to be pretty narrow.

Melee combat does seem like the best option. Get in close, bash in head with blunt object or hack with a sharp one.
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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by ShooterMike » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:11 pm

STGHill wrote:...But what if you shoot them in the lower face and it exits without doing major damage to the brain? You have to aim for the forehead...
Not really... The forehead is frequently seen in the real world to deflect bullets, especially pistol bullets. The optimum aiming point when faced head-on is the cranio-ocular opening (nose and eyes). Straight behind that lies the parts of the brain that control lower function. The top part of the brain is mostly the "intellectual portion" and zombies don't use that much. The optimum area to shoot is basically from the upper lip to the eye brows. Much above that and you have a notable risk of not penetrating the skull with pistol bullets or buckshot. Below that area and you hit teeth and jaw, which do undesireable things to low velocity pullets. However, with real rifle ammo (5.56, 5.45, 7.62 of any type) it's pretty much a moot point. Most rifle fire works if it hits within an inch of the outside edge of the head.

Damn, I dig these esoteric theoretical discussions about hypothetical shoot 'em ups. :awesome:

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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by STGHill » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:20 pm

So now we've narrowed it down to an even smaller slice of the head where you have to aim. Great. Lol.
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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by Sins » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:49 pm

I have heard most pistols have a low risk of penetrating the skull.
However, a coconut is often compared to a skull. Even on ZS.
http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/view ... 6&p=947106" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And I have no problem putting holes through coconuts with a 9mm.

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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:48 pm

STGHill wrote:So now we've narrowed it down to an even smaller slice of the head where you have to aim. Great. Lol.
Draw an imaginary T shape on your face. The top line should be the /width and height of your eyes, and the downward line should be about one inch wide and go from the bright of your nose to the top of your bottom lip (give or take.) this is the T-box, and it's the only way to be sure for a straight on shot. There's a few other good threads about this on here.
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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by pippers » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:50 am

This is just my opinion, but if it moans it breathes...if it breathes it bleeds...if it bleeds it dies...maybe they're just WWWAAAAYYYY more pain tolerant than those of us that still have our marbles in tact, therefor taking them a little longer to go down. If they're running on noggin power and sheer will to feed perhaps it'll just take a little longer for them to give in to injuries. :clap:

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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by TheLastCenturion » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:25 pm

pippers wrote:This is just my opinion, but if it moans it breathes...if it breathes it bleeds...if it bleeds it dies...maybe they're just WWWAAAAYYYY more pain tolerant than those of us that still have our marbles in tact, therefor taking them a little longer to go down. If they're running on noggin power and sheer will to feed perhaps it'll just take a little longer for them to give in to injuries. :clap:
No! They are immune to pain and have no need to breathe. The moan is just a instinct to draw in reinforcements. I repeat no need to breathe. The blood is congealed and circulatory system is not used nor is the respiratory system. A zombie head that has bean severed can survive and still bite/infect people for centuries if properly preserved. As for a zombie with a severed spine, yes it is probably paralyzed in some place but go back after the battle to finish the job and BURN IT as well as any other bodys that have the zombie virus.

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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by maldon007 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:37 pm

I don't know, there are many acceptable "zombie" archetypes, so saying "this is how zombies work!" is kinda silly... Hell, most of that would be conjecture even in the more famous movies.
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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by Sworbeyegib » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:24 pm

Pelvis shot anyone?
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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by azrael99 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:55 pm

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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by C.A. Marshall » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:40 pm

I agree run first. Personally if I see some guys trying to headshot zombies while on the run I'd be more worried about getting hit by stray shots than by zombies.

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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by RUSirius » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:22 pm

I recommend going for the knees as well. Yes, they are a smaller, more mobile target than the head, but if you're using a melee weapon, they're still relative easy to hit, particularly if you can catch the zombie in mid-step, with all of its weight on the forward leg. A zombie with a shattered knee might be immune to the pain, but it isn't immune to body mechanics; if its leg is physically incapable of supporting its weight, it won't be coming after anyone any faster than it can drag itself by hand. Having it on the ground like this makes it easy to follow up with blow to the skull or brainstem. Plus, even if you miss a knee-shattering blow, you're still likely to sweep the legs or otherwise knock the zombie off-balance, making them easy to dispatch or escape.

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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by learntwoshoot » Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:52 pm

I find this topic interesting as a firearms instructor. Most law enforcement and military understand a persons accuracy under stress is greatly diminished for multiple reasons.

1 - The person shooting at the zombie would experience an adrenal dump, which would decrease the shooters accuracy.

2 - The head is a hard target to hit, the zombie will most likely moving their head may also be moving independent of the body .

3 - The legs and Knees will prove difficult to hit under stress for the same reasons the head will prove difficult to hit.

My recommendations of areas to target other than the head to slow down the zombie.

1 - The pelvic bowl contains several large bones that should slow down the zombie long enough to effectively fire a follow up shot to the head or escape the location.

Why the "pelvic bowl" it is much larger than the head, and has been used a failure to stop targeting area on assailants by law enforcement for many years.
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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by TheWarriorMax » Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:26 pm

Ammo is too valuable to waste on zombies. Teamwork, however is a force multiplier...


1. You or your buddy jams a pitchfork into the chest.
2. The other person moves in with a spear and shoves it into the eye.
3. Zombie falls, both step onto the torso to help pull out the fork
4. Repeat

3 or 4 teams like this will be quieter and more effective that trying head shots or knee shots after training. Probably the same amount of trainjng time to get a non firearms person up to basic ability.

With suitable armour/motorcycle wear the setup should be effective enough.
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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by azrael99 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:11 pm

about the ''aim to the head'' thing. some people think that a common fmj bullet would not have enough power to destroy enough of the brain to actually touch the vital part of the brain from a zombie

what about the ''grenade ammo'' ?

theses littles anti-vermin bullet



would they be able to inflict enough damage inside the head without being a hazard to the surrounding survivor ?
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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by nolongpork » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:58 pm

Sworbeyegib wrote:Pelvis shot anyone?

Exactly that place is the most structurally complex area of the whole body. Damage to the Pelvis is like knocking the support wires on a suspension bridge.

Will Zed die? probably not but they damn sure are on the ground and not chasing you anymore. If they had blood that flowed easily it would drain with a quickness as well.

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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by WutsFrequencyKeneth » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:13 am

learntwoshoot wrote:I find this topic interesting as a firearms instructor. Most law enforcement and military understand a persons accuracy under stress is greatly diminished for multiple reasons.

1 - The person shooting at the zombie would experience an adrenal dump, which would decrease the shooters accuracy.

2 - The head is a hard target to hit, the zombie will most likely moving their head may also be moving independent of the body .

3 - The legs and Knees will prove difficult to hit under stress for the same reasons the head will prove difficult to hit.

My recommendations of areas to target other than the head to slow down the zombie.

1 - The pelvic bowl contains several large bones that should slow down the zombie long enough to effectively fire a follow up shot to the head or escape the location.

Why the "pelvic bowl" it is much larger than the head, and has been used a failure to stop targeting area on assailants by law enforcement for many years.
IME it's precision, not accuracy, that degrades. The Pelvic bowl isn't going to be a great idea though. The only real bad things there are arteries which may not be the best target for zombies. The only reason a headshot is difficult is because the only real effective target is the small ocular / sinonasal cavity. The reason the target has to be that cavity is because handgun rounds can't effectively, repeatably, reliably penetrate the bones around it.

If the bullets can't reliably penetrate the bones of the face and skull, I don't believe the femur or pelvis is going to be any easier to shatter.

I'm not a "firearms instructor" though.

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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by zero11010 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:08 pm

This is an interesting question and some fantastic ideas have been brought up!

Real people in the real world have exhibited individual symptoms that zombies are known for. This information can give us a reasonable view of what a zombie's brain would actually look like. Several portions would be shriveled and hardly functioning (like areas used for speech and fine motor control), many portions would be engorged and overactive (like areas responsible for aggressive behavior and hunger). Doctor Bradley Voytek (a Ph.D and neuroscientist in San Diego) has produced some awesome information about the likely neuroanatomy of the zombie brain.

Why is that important? Well, people get hugely traumatic head injuries that they live from pretty regularly. It's possible for a regular person to live after their brain has been penetrated by a bullet or an industrial sized nail or a pipe. It's uncommon, but it happens. So, the general idea of just sticking an ice pick into the brain of a zombie and the lights automatically going out MAY not work as well in practice as in theory.

What does this mean? This means that killing a zombie may not be as "easy" as piercing the skull and dealing any damage to the brain.

That being said, the single best way to deal with any zombie (in most fiction) is to damage the brain or severing the brainstem. The T shaped shooting area mentioned above is a very sound tactic for dealing with a regular person (I hear).

If all that matters is hitting the brain, you may want to focus shooting humanoid targets and aiming for the head. Failing that, try to mark off a roughly 4inch diameter circle to approximate the size of the human head. Oh, and remember that shooting at a stationary piece of paper that you're aware of, poses no threat to you, and have all the time in the world to shoot at is very different from actually needing to use a weapon because your life depends on it in a situation where your heart rate may already be up because you're on the move. So, you want to be REALLY good at shooting at the easy stuff, because it only gets harder.

Something that may help you in your practice is learning your sweet spot. This greatest distance at which you can comfortably hit a brain sized target. That may be 2 yards right now, but with a little practice you may be able to push that to 5 yards, then 10+ yards. The idea is not to become capable of shooting a zombie between the eyes at a mile with your pistol (or whatever). Instead, the idea is to learn at which distance you should allow yourself to start shooting. If your sweet spot is 7 yards, shots at 10 or more yards have a big chance of being wasted ammo. Most zombie fiction agrees that zombies move at about 3 miles per hour. This means 1.5 yards per second is how fast they travel. Assess your situation, determine how many targets you have, and how long you have to shoot them once they enter your sweet spot. If you're dealing with 2 or 3 zombies there isn't really an issue with letting them shamble within your kill zone of 7 yards (remembering that a firearm should still be a weapon of last resort). This gives you a little over 4 seconds to place 3 kill shots before they can reach you (assuming you're stationary and their speed is constant) and that allows you to take 2 whole seconds between each shot to aim (also assuming each shot is successful).

Why not damage the arms?
If you damage the arms you run the risk of transforming the zombie. Now, instead of reaching it's decomposing arms up at you it may be reaching up with severely fractured bones sticking through it's skin. Now instead of just being held you may be stabbed by bone and may run a greater risk of infection. Leave the arms alone. It's bad enough dealing with teeth as a point of infection. Plus, the head is an easier target to hit than an arm.

Why not damage the legs?
Zombies don't think. They don't (intentionally) hide. They don't move covertly. If you damage the legs badly enough to prevent a zombie from being able to walk upright you create a whole new class of threat. Dealing with crawling zombies is a much different situation than dealing with walking/running zombies. When you have to worry about crawling zombies you have to change how you visually search for threats almost entirely. This greatly increases the chances of zombies going unperceived. It turns knee high brush or a shallow swamp or bog into a chance of meeting a hidden zombie each time you move forward. Damaging the legs may allow you to get away, but sooner or later someone will have to clean up after your mess. So, do it right the first time!

Why not just decapitate a zombie?
The zombie's head still functions when separated from the body. It's true that without the body the head cannot move or reach for you. But, a zombie head on the ground is basically like a land mine which runs the risk of starting a chain of infection all over again in the future.

It's true that guns should be a last resort, as mentioned above. However, as it was mentioned above there will never be as many zombies as there are people. For one, I'll never get infected! More importantly (for the rest of you) most zombie fiction hints at something but never really explores it. This is pretty off topic and something I'd like to write up separately: there is basically a tipping point where a group of zombies will not create any more zombies when they find people. Zombies do nothing but eat when they find food. Most zombie fiction isn't super specific on how long it takes for a person to change after dying. But, essentially, between the time that the zombies start eating and until the time it would take for a corpse to reanimate a horde of zombies eating a person is likely going to remove all the muscles that would be needed for that corpse to start moving again. To get a real number we would need to know how much meat an average zombie can eat in a minute, and we would need to know an average time that it takes for a person to turn into a zombie. Using that and the average size of a person we would be able to determine how many zombies in a group would generally prevent any further zombie from being created.

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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by daduck » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:05 pm

This isn't my favorite topic, so i"ll keep it short. We were trained to shoot for the head at fifty meters or less, beyond that, center body mass.

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Re: Always Aim for the Head, Right?

Post by ZHT-1A » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:01 pm

zero11010 wrote: Oh, and remember that shooting at a stationary piece of paper that you're aware of, poses no threat to you, and have all the time in the world to shoot at is very different from actually needing to use a weapon because your life depends on it in a situation where your heart rate may already be up because you're on the move. So, you want to be REALLY good at shooting at the easy stuff, because it only gets harder.

Something that may help you in your practice is learning your sweet spot. This greatest distance at which you can comfortably hit a brain sized target. That may be 2 yards right now, but with a little practice you may be able to push that to 5 yards, then 10+ yards. The idea is not to become capable of shooting a zombie between the eyes at a mile with your pistol (or whatever). Instead, the idea is to learn at which distance you should allow yourself to start shooting. If your sweet spot is 7 yards, shots at 10 or more yards have a big chance of being wasted ammo. Most zombie fiction agrees that zombies move at about 3 miles per hour. This means 1.5 yards per second is how fast they travel. Assess your situation, determine how many targets you have, and how long you have to shoot them once they enter your sweet spot. If you're dealing with 2 or 3 zombies there isn't really an issue with letting them shamble within your kill zone of 7 yards (remembering that a firearm should still be a weapon of last resort). This gives you a little over 4 seconds to place 3 kill shots before they can reach you (assuming you're stationary and their speed is constant) and that allows you to take 2 whole seconds between each shot to aim (also assuming each shot is successful).
That is pretty funny you to mention those "facts" considering your "Shotguns are overrated" thread.
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