COVID-19 Chat Thread

This isn't going away anytime soon folks and with all the new variants of COVID-19 popping up it just made sense to drop COVID-19 from the sub-section name and consolidate all the pandemic stuff in one location.

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by Challenger007 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:56 am

CrossCut wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:08 am
Small clinical trial of PVP-I in symptomatic COVID-19 patients published yesterday:

Povidone Iodine Mouthwash, Gargle, and Nasal Spray to Reduce Nasopharyngeal Viral Load in Patients With COVID-19

Their findings seem to contradict those from these earlier studies:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 1.full.pdf
http://www.bioresearchcommunications.co ... ew/176/159

And some critical reviews of the study and methodology already: https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expe ... -symptoms/

But this latest study seems to have included patients further along in disease progression, so maybe some evidence that PVP-I mouthwash/nasal spray is more effective at early prevention rather than a later stage treatment? All 24, intervention and control, tested negative by day 3 of the trial and normal SARS-CoV-2 viral clearance is 14-17 days so they likely started this study on day 11-14 of the disease.

Regarding their finding that "Thyroid dysfunction occurred in 42% of the patients exposed to PI", it's noteworthy that this study used about 10X the dose of PVP-I used in the earlier studies - 100 ml of 1% PVP-I solution + a small quantity of 10% nasal cream four times a day. The earlier studies used 10 ml of 1% PVP-I three to six times daily.
Oh, there are so many "studies" that help with COVID. But in reality all this does not work. Only vaccination or Dexamethasone works for severe pneumonia. In all other cases, you need good humidity in the room so that the phlegm is cleared away, drink liquid and not force food into yourself. Of course, the body needs energy to fight the disease, but it is better to take such energy from simple carbohydrates (it is banal to eat chocolate or ice cream), but not load the body with meat, fats, etc.

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by CrossCut » Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:39 am

Small (36 volunteer) study of 3 different antiseptic mouthwashes and their antiviral activity against SARS-CoV-2 over short (20-180 min) time periods:

Povidone iodine, hydrogen peroxide and chlorhexidine mouthwashes reduce SARS-CoV2 burden in whole mouth fluid and respiratory droplets

A log1 reduction is 90%, log2 is 99%, log3 is 99.9%. If an inexpensive and safe OTC mouthwash can reduce 90-99% of SARS-CoV-2 in respiratory droplets from asymptomatic/pre-symptomatic individuals for up to 3 hours, why the hell isn't this recommended yet to help limit transmission - like before going to work or the grocery store? If you're shedding it less, you're spreading it less.

And still waiting for a number of similar mouthwash/nasal spray clinical trials to complete and post their results, some having been in the "recruiting" phase for months and others that completed months ago but haven't posted finding/results. Why researchers can't find 40-50 volunteers to use mouthwash for a week, and get the public some results in under a year (like these that have been running since last April, https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04347954 and https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04344236) doesn't make any sense to me. :words:

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by raptor2 » Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:27 pm

^^^^ Good data points.^^^
CrossCut wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:39 am
Why researchers can't find 40-50 volunteers to use mouthwash for a week, and get the public some results in under a year (like these that have been running since last April, https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04347954 and https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04344236) doesn't make any sense to me. :words:
This reminds of the early days of COVID when my urban friends and colleges (with whom I frequently shook hands) were complaining about washing their hands a lot. My reaction was to think "Good Lord Man! We shake hands often and now you tell me previously that you do not wash your hands regularly... ewwww!... I need to go wash my hands again".

My friends in the rural areas had no issues with it and practiced such routine basic hygiene long before this. They understood the need for such things as washing hands and decontaminating boots.
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by Vicarious_Lee » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:55 pm

Texas has dropped mask mandates and re-opened 100%

Controversial, for sure. But....we're heading into the warmer months, where sunlight is more available to kill viruses, people are outdoors, and warmer weather seems to slow the spread (some politicians in Florida seem to be taking credit for the fortuitous location of their state relative to Earth's equator....but that's none of my business).

Anyway, last night I signed both my sons up for flag football league, something I've been putting off doing for a year. It's 100% outdoors and obviously NOT full contact. Am I confident that the pandemic is waning enough that it's totally safe? No. Does my confidence in the RELATIVE safety of the coming months outweigh my total lack of desire to be out there coaching on a field for 4 hours in the afternoon heat of the month of June in Texas?

Fuck yes it does. :awesome:

Also, having a GF that is a forensic pathologist and county medical examiner (and different specialties' medical knowledge is somewhat sexually transmitted it seems) we both agree that normalizing mask wearing in public should be encouraged. Like from here on out, amongst vulnerable, elderly, and people that are just sick as shit and can't stay home.

This is the year without a flu season

Flu is just stopped in its tracks. She's still not seen her first flu death cross her desk this year. That's the best argument for the fact that masks and social distancing work. There's no flu season this year. On a personal note, my grandma is both totally healthy and 90 years old. For the rest of her days, I will encourage wearing masks and social distancing during a flu season, as statistically the thing that takes out healthy people that have made it above age 90 is usually a respiratory illness.
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:40 am

Vicarious_Lee wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:55 pm
...(and different specialties' medical knowledge is somewhat sexually transmitted it seems)...
:rofl: :clap:

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by CrossCut » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:29 am

Another small clinical trial of PVP-I and CHX mouthwash published results yesterday. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 1.full.pdf
Conclusion. Chlorhexidine 0.2% and 1% Povidone-iodine oral solutions are effective preprocedural mouthwashes against salivary SARS-COV-2 in dental treatments. Their use as a preventive strategy to reduce the spread of COVID-19 during dental practice should be systematically implemented.
Saliva collected before and then 5 minutes after rinsing/gargling and rRT-PCR compared. Would have been nice to see results for at least a couple hours after to get some idea of the persistence/substantivity of each.

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by Ever » Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:37 am

I was listening to podcast This American Life: #695: 'Everyone's A Critic'

Each episode generally has three variations on the title. In this one the second variation was an interview with that Chinese citizen journalist Chen Qiushi who slipped into the first lockdown to record, video tape, and report. Then was disappeared. The same man this thread had noted early on in this event when information was being gleaned by ZS to get accuracy about what was happening over there.

In the interview he said he asked a group of people how well they were prepared for this sudden lockdown. One of them saying he had about six months preps stored.(he had been prepping for a possible trade embargo)

I'd never thought about preppers in Wuhan during this. Definitely a 💡 'of course' moment for me.

I wondered if they talk to each other like we do.
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Stay safe and well, y'all.
(and keep practicing physical distancing and wearing masks. if not for yourself do it for those of us around ya who desperately need ya to)

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by Black Beard » Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:31 am

Here in UK the vaccinations are going well except that our good neighbours in Europe seem to want to take whatever vaccines they can get their hands on. This won't go well for all concerned. If governments can't be sure of getting medicines they have contracted for then they will look elsewhere. The vaccine situation may kick off trade sanctions. Be aware if you are dependant on medicines from outside your country.

Jab booked for tomorrow. Will probably be the Oxford/AstraZeneca one.

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by lurkshere » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:25 pm

Jab booked for tomorrow. Will probably be the Oxford/AstraZeneca one.
I had the Oxford jab 3 hours ago. Things were really well set up, in and out in 10 minutes. Wait in the car for 15 minutes after, before leaving. I've not turned zombie yet.
The EU is all over the place. One minute they don't want to use it, the next they can't get enough. Not many jabs going into arms across the channel.

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by MPMalloy » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:35 pm

Ever wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:37 am
I was listening to podcast This American Life: #695: 'Everyone's A Critic'

Each episode generally has three variations on the title. In this one the second variation was an interview with that Chinese citizen journalist Chen Qiushi who slipped into the first lockdown to record, video tape, and report. Then was disappeared. The same man this thread had noted early on in this event when information was being gleaned by ZS to get accuracy about what was happening over there.

In the interview he said he asked a group of people how well they were prepared for this sudden lockdown. One of them saying he had about six months preps stored.(he had been prepping for a possible trade embargo)

I'd never thought about preppers in Wuhan during this. Definitely a 💡 'of course' moment for me.

I wondered if they talk to each other like we do.
I would think it would be "on the down-low".

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by MPMalloy » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:40 pm

I was Coof-proofed @ 1933 hrs CDT. Not feeling like eating anyone.😜

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by Ever » Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:02 am

Aunt Bea wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:13 am
We (husband in mid sixties, excellent health, and me early sixties, compromised immune system, sketchy health) both had AN UNKNOWN VIRUS in late March. I can't say Covid because there were no tests here in Kansas yet, but the symptoms match up. Both cases were like a bad flu+. Neither of us were hospitalised. What came after though...nothing short of near comatose tiredness, continuous headaches, digestive issues, brain fog, and measurable increase in my usual health issues of pain and neuropathy. The post viral effects have been much more debilitating than the active virus for us both. Stay home except for fresh air exercise and wear a mask. I'd hate to see anyone else go through this.
@Aunt Bea, how are you? Are you still experiencing after effects?
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Stay safe and well, y'all.
(and keep practicing physical distancing and wearing masks. if not for yourself do it for those of us around ya who desperately need ya to)

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by Challenger007 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:56 am

Ever wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:02 am
Aunt Bea wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:13 am
We (husband in mid sixties, excellent health, and me early sixties, compromised immune system, sketchy health) both had AN UNKNOWN VIRUS in late March. I can't say Covid because there were no tests here in Kansas yet, but the symptoms match up. Both cases were like a bad flu+. Neither of us were hospitalised. What came after though...nothing short of near comatose tiredness, continuous headaches, digestive issues, brain fog, and measurable increase in my usual health issues of pain and neuropathy. The post viral effects have been much more debilitating than the active virus for us both. Stay home except for fresh air exercise and wear a mask. I'd hate to see anyone else go through this.
@Aunt Bea, how are you? Are you still experiencing after effects?
The virus itself is not so terrible as its consequences and the complications caused by it during the course of the disease. It takes strength even from young and healthy people, not to mention the elderly.

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by raptor2 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:35 pm

I just saw this and I am still digesting this and would be interested in any ZS'er's (who may be an MD) opinion on this.

After reading this it sure looks like the UK had a LOT of people infected (or vaccinated) by March 21, 2021.
Main points
In England, an estimated 1 in 2 people, or 54.7% of the population (95% credible interval: 49.3% to 60.5%) would have tested positive for antibodies against the coronavirus – SARS-CoV-2 – on a blood test in the week ending 14 March 2021, suggesting they had the infection in the past or have been vaccinated.

In Wales, an estimated 1 in 2 people, or 50.5% of the population (95% credible interval: 44.2% to 57.2%) would have tested positive for antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 on a blood test in the week ending 14 March 2021, suggesting they had the infection in the past or have been vaccinated.

In Northern Ireland, an estimated 1 in 2 people, or 49.3% of the population (95% credible interval: 41.8% to 59.7%) would have tested positive for antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 on a blood test in the week ending 14 March 2021, suggesting they had the infection in the past or have been vaccinated.

In Scotland, an estimated 2 in 5 people, or 42.6% of the population (95% credible interval: 37.1% to 48.6%) would have tested positive for antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 on a blood test in the week ending 14 March 2021, suggesting they had the infection in the past or have been vaccinated.

The data show a reduction in antibody positivity rates among older individuals during the most recent days in the period analysed; this is likely because of people in these prioritised age groups having received their first vaccine dose but not yet their second dose; this does not necessarily mean they have no immunity protection against coronavirus (COVID-19).

For the first time, we have included modelled estimates of the number of people who have received at least one dose of a vaccine; across all four countries of the UK there is a clear pattern between vaccination and testing positive for COVID-19 antibodies.


https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... euk/latest


I got this link from this article (beware politics contained within)


As well as this graphic with cases in Texas:
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by Vicarious_Lee » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:46 pm

Hard to say, man. You'd need to know the numbers of vaccinated, which that article says it's going to provide, but didn't, at least not in a scientifically appropriate way of making the largest second piece of information you need REALLY easy to find.

We saw early on, the horrific deaths of otherwise healthy and young front line workers to COVID. It's long been theorized that COVID's severity follows dose-response patterns. For example if you get COVID from suctioning a coding patient's tracheostomy, you're likely to have a way worse time of it than if you got it from a doorknob or a toilet seat.

So, a year of pandemic. I was at Summit Racing yesterday picking up a bunch of parts for my car because I'm a total badass who shops at Summit Racing, :awesome: anyway...you know all the sneeze guards are all still up, lines are orderly, masks are on, not by government mandate, on well over 90% of everyone (less so the kids these days).

Nobody knows how effective the vaccine REALLY is, or how for how long it is effective (6 months? A year? A lifetime?). Those studies suggest that COVID 19 might be the next insidious mutating virus that just kinda hangs out with the humans now and kinda makes some people sick and not others so much, very much like the common cold, which is also a coronavirus.

The numbers for Texas, I think, are because we're all still wearing our masks, it's getting into the sunshine months, and we've been conducting business with these weird new social distancing rules for like a year now and we're just kinda good at it. The sneeze guards we all put on our economy and businesses and lives apparently can safely handle an even higher volume of people than we thought.

Both of the last two things I wrote are very encouraging, I think. The ability to balance society and to have practical, reasonable measures in place during any pandemic moving forward is a sweet tool to have in the tool shed.

I bet next year's flu season is similarly weak and pathetic because of this. Hell, maybe ALL of the flu seasons are gonna be light from here on out.
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by raptor2 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:15 pm

Vicarious_Lee wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:46 pm
Hard to say, man. You'd need to know the numbers of vaccinated, which that article says it's going to provide, but didn't, at least not in a scientifically appropriate way of making the largest second piece of information you need REALLY easy to find.
I was hoping someone else would find what I missed. I assume a vaccine will result in a positive antibody test though the article said the difference was detectable.
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by Black Beard » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:31 am

Uk government publishes the vaccination numbers daily. Currently at 60% of the adult population or about 45% overall with the first dose.

Don't forget that the people who got the virus in the first wave before June probably won't show antibodies unless they are re-exposed.

I estimate that about 3/8 of the population have had the virus. This is based upon antibody numbers before the vaccination programme and the death data. I think UK is at the point where we will be getting herd immunity, largely due to the vaccine. The infection and death figures have been decreasing rapidly since January.

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by sheddi » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:17 am

raptor2 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:35 pm
I just saw this and I am still digesting this and would be interested in any ZS'er's (who may be an MD) opinion on this.

After reading this it sure looks like the UK had a LOT of people infected (or vaccinated) by March 21, 2021.
Mostly vaccinated, so a good news story not a bad news one :)
Black Beard wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:31 am
Uk government publishes the vaccination numbers daily. Currently at 60% of the adult population or about 45% overall with the first dose.
Published daily here:
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

UK population is ~66 million (estimates vary, this is a census year so we'll have a better number soon) and as I type this, that gov.uk site reports 31.6 million first doses given (47.8% of pop) and 5.5 million second doses (8.3% of pop).
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by lurkshere » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:51 am

Raptor's link also quotes the Daily Mail.

Enough said.

The ONS stats I believe.

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by Black Beard » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:27 am

The Daily Mail will just be quoting a study and there will be a time delay. They are normally reasonably good for news.

Current UK policy has switched to giving more second doses. This makes sense in terms of overall risk. We are doing about 2 1/2% of the population a week on second doses which is pretty good. Currently chasing Hungary and Serbia's full vaccination rates. We won't catch the US.

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by raptor2 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:59 pm

lurkshere wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:51 am
Raptor's link also quotes the Daily Mail.

Enough said.

The ONS stats I believe.
I posted a link to the original study as well. I posted the Daily Mail as the source of the link reference for full disclosure.
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by boskone » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:53 pm

My biggest problem with the vaccines so far is that I can't find an appointment reasonably nearby to get vaccinated. :| Most places are booked up for like 2 weeks.

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by sheddi » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:16 am

boskone wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:53 pm
My biggest problem with the vaccines so far is that I can't find an appointment reasonably nearby to get vaccinated. :| Most places are booked up for like 2 weeks.
At least that means your neighbors are getting jabbed!

If there were lots of free appointments I'd be worried that everyone was avoiding it.
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by boskone » Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:17 pm

sheddi wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:16 am
boskone wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:53 pm
My biggest problem with the vaccines so far is that I can't find an appointment reasonably nearby to get vaccinated. :| Most places are booked up for like 2 weeks.
At least that means your neighbors are getting jabbed!

If there were lots of free appointments I'd be worried that everyone was avoiding it.
That's more or less the view I've been taking, that most people probably need it more than I do.

I work from home, I'm single, and I'm not terribly social; so I'm probably a low-probability spreader. My health history is almost perfect, so I'm not really likely to get it.

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