Summer Mock Bugout Contest chatter thread.

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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Summer Mock Bugout Contest chatter thread.

Post by the_alias » Mon May 09, 2011 9:36 am

Well we had a Winter MBO Contest- seeing as June is just around the corner who is up for a Summer contest?
What would you like to see?

Personally I'm thinking minimal is the way to go - summer can be an easier time to be outdoors and practice survival/bushcraft living.
Throwing some ideas out there to get the convo started:
A How Far you can walk in 48 hours
E&E 48 hr contest
15 items or less contest

After all when the weather is like this
Image
:D

Just reading this thread: Here is current offering I've compiled from statements made thus far:
A two month long Summer Bugout Contest extravaganza
Basic Rules (apply to all categories)
Minimum of 24 hours out.
You must sleep out.
Must be foot propelled for a good portion of this. Be this a day hike from a fixed camp or all day.
Death results in instant disqualification.

Category A:
No gear restrictions - take whatever you want.
You must obey above rules.

Category B:
15 Items or less(Or a weight restriction? discounting water and food)
Must be walking for minimum of 12 hours if total trip duration is over 24 hours. 8 hours if trip is only 24 hours.

Points will be awarded how sigboy suggested
Summer bug out point structure:
Judges Points - 25 points for misc, awarded at judges discretion for general ability and skills. This also covers non specific creativity, like building a raft with floaties, or making a sled out of your walker.

Set requirements for points: These items are all standard. Your location does not alter any of these,and anybody can do them anywhere.
Pack weight- (dry weight, food and water does not count)
0-10 pounds - 10 points max
10-20 pounds - 7 points
20-30 - 5 points
30-40 - 3 points
40 + - 1 point

Miles hiked(on foot)-
30 miles - 10 points max
25 miles - 8 points
20 miles- 6 points
15 miles -4 points
10 miles - 2 points
weather/ terrain modifiers 2 points each for altitude higher then 5,000 feet, temperature over 90*F

Shelter-
Primitive shelter - 5 points
Lean to/tarp shelter - 3 points
Tent - 1 point
Last edited by the_alias on Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:42 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by absw » Mon May 09, 2011 9:45 am

15 or less could be fun, or maybe 10 or less?
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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by Murph » Mon May 09, 2011 9:51 am

I'm interested, especially if there is some sort of "getting out in the field and doing it" component.
Does your BOB at least have: water, basic tools, fire, food, first-aid kit, and shelter?
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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by TacAir » Mon May 09, 2011 9:55 am

Sounds like fun

I would ask for a "Alaska Division" given that a 'hot' summer may may only be 60F before the rain starts...

Image

Then again, we might just WIN on scenery points.

Image
Crow pass/ Raven Glacier is planned for this August. A fun walk of about 24 miles over 2 days. Would this count as part of a BO test?
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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by the_alias » Mon May 09, 2011 9:57 am

Murph wrote:I'm interested, especially if there is some sort of "getting out in the field and doing it" component.
Yeah this is a vital component.

TacAir - I've sweated in an Alaskan summer before - it got to 70!

Depends what the community decides - I think it would be ok.

I'll add some poll options to my post when we get a few more ideas in so people can vote between the options - so far I'm thinking either we do a more general "everything allowed" contest or a more limited amount of kit contest.
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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by dukman » Mon May 09, 2011 10:18 am

I don't agree with making any sort of contest around the experience :shock: Minimalistic hiking is very dangerous in of itself and I don't think participants should be thinking of it as some contest where they have to beat everyone else. For example, people that are not experienced in bushcraft fire making should not feel forced to leave behind a lighter or matches just because it is a minimalistic hike.

I think there should be some more ground rules for safety's sake. At the bare minimum, everyone needs to have the safety sheet at home with a detailed route plan and a scheduled time to get SAR involved is contact is not made.

How about a contest where they have a specific set of supplies they have to use to build the best shelter they can and post pics? Say one 55 gallon garbage sack, 10 feet of paracord, and no knife of any sort at their disposal.
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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by the_alias » Mon May 09, 2011 10:23 am

dukman wrote:I don't agree with making any sort of contest around the experience :shock: Minimalistic hiking is very dangerous in of itself and I don't think participants should be thinking of it as some contest where they have to beat everyone else. For example, people that are not experienced in bushcraft fire making should not feel forced to leave behind a lighter or matches just because it is a minimalistic hike.

I think there should be some more ground rules for safety's sake. At the bare minimum, everyone needs to have the safety sheet at home with a detailed route plan and a scheduled time to get SAR involved is contact is not made.

How about a contest where they have a specific set of supplies they have to use to build the best shelter they can and post pics? Say one 55 gallon garbage sack, 10 feet of paracord, and no knife of any sort at their disposal.
:?
People are responsible for their own actions.
No one is forcing anyone to do anything.

These same concerns were raised about the Winter Bug Out contest and no one died - everyone took reasonable precautions and came back alive.

Letting people know your route and time expected back is probably standard operating procedure for many people on this site.
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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by Keith B » Mon May 09, 2011 10:30 am

I think something with a full 48 hour timeframe would be cool.

I REALLY like the idea of a max distance in 48 hours. Esspecially since we are looking at 100* temps in Texas real quick.

As for dukman, everybody has their own skill level. Nobody is asking anybody to go past that, look at all the entries for the Winter thread, it gave people an excuse to go out and do something. Dont mistake it for anything more then that.
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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by TFC Rick » Mon May 09, 2011 11:57 am

dukman wrote:I don't agree with making any sort of contest around the experience :shock: Minimalistic hiking is very dangerous in of itself and I don't think participants should be thinking of it as some contest where they have to beat everyone else. For example, people that are not experienced in bushcraft fire making should not feel forced to leave behind a lighter or matches just because it is a minimalistic hike.

I think there should be some more ground rules for safety's sake. At the bare minimum, everyone needs to have the safety sheet at home with a detailed route plan and a scheduled time to get SAR involved is contact is not made.

How about a contest where they have a specific set of supplies they have to use to build the best shelter they can and post pics? Say one 55 gallon garbage sack, 10 feet of paracord, and no knife of any sort at their disposal.

If someone has a lower skill level I would think it would be totally with-in "the rules" to bring a small pack/bag with a lighter and other non-minimalist items for safety. That way they could try without them but if they get in a jam, bingo.

Just a thought.
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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by congochris » Mon May 09, 2011 12:04 pm

How's about making it a bi different this time? Make the contest based solely upon Shelter. No production tents or shelters, the shelter must be either sewn by you beforehand, or constructed on site out of native materials; branches and whatnot. Two winners, perhaps, best home-made, best site-made?

Although I think we'd have to ban WyomingLostAndFound from particpating since he makes shelters for a living. :lol:

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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by Keith B » Mon May 09, 2011 1:05 pm

TFC Rick wrote:
dukman wrote:I don't agree with making any sort of contest around the experience :shock: Minimalistic hiking is very dangerous in of itself and I don't think participants should be thinking of it as some contest where they have to beat everyone else. For example, people that are not experienced in bushcraft fire making should not feel forced to leave behind a lighter or matches just because it is a minimalistic hike.

I think there should be some more ground rules for safety's sake. At the bare minimum, everyone needs to have the safety sheet at home with a detailed route plan and a scheduled time to get SAR involved is contact is not made.

How about a contest where they have a specific set of supplies they have to use to build the best shelter they can and post pics? Say one 55 gallon garbage sack, 10 feet of paracord, and no knife of any sort at their disposal.

If someone has a lower skill level I would think it would be totally with-in "the rules" to bring a small pack/bag with a lighter and other non-minimalist items for safety. That way they could try without them but if they get in a jam, bingo.

Just a thought.
You seem to have missed the point here. We make contests with a set of rules and restrictions that you can either accomplish or you cant. If your stupid enought to go way outside your comfort zone to win some silly internet contest, thats not the forums problem. If you have to take a lighter, take one, and tell us about it. If your disabled and cant walk 50 miles in two days, then walk 8, and tell us about it.

W set the contest to get as many entries as possible, not to try and eliminate people because of their skill level or potential disabilities. Trust me I'd like to see a 48 hour max distance hike, and I'd probaly knock out 100 miles, but most people wont participate.
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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by Woods Walker » Mon May 09, 2011 1:39 pm

I think people should be able to use whatever gear and skills they have. For the winter contest there were some basic rules like yea had to stay out at least 24 hours etc etc but that was it. There were no requirements to only use minimal gear or hike a long distance. I gave extra credit to those who overcame hardships and points docked for taking unnecessary risks. This is the gear sub forum of ZS after all. However having the best gear alone shouldn’t determine the winner.
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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by rsnurkle » Mon May 09, 2011 1:48 pm

sigboy40 wrote:You seem to have missed the point here. We make contests with a set of rules and restrictions that you can either accomplish or you cant. If your stupid enought to go way outside your comfort zone to win some silly internet contest, thats not the forums problem. If you have to take a lighter, take one, and tell us about it. If your disabled and cant walk 50 miles in two days, then walk 8, and tell us about it.

W set the contest to get as many entries as possible, not to try and eliminate people because of their skill level or potential disabilities. Trust me I'd like to see a 48 hour max distance hike, and I'd probaly knock out 100 miles, but most people wont participate.
If high participation is the point, what about having multiple "quest" options for the MBO? For example, my IT band is bothering me this week, so the distance-in-48-hrs challenge is out, but I can still put together a kit, take a short hike, and then build a nice shelter for my main MBO task. Or I can take only 10 items. Or I can just MBO with my normal stuff and document whatever I do. The point would be, that people who took on a particular challenge would be compared to those who also took on that challenge, freeing people to submit entries for whatever MBO-tasks they wanted to tackle.

I realize anyone thinking about volunteering to judge might think multiple "divisions" would get too complicated, but wasn't there a point system based on each relevant aspect of the MBO entry? Each division would have a lot of common questions (did the participate make appropriate plans ahead of time, choose/leave relevant equipment for their task, avoid/take uneccessary risks, etc.) and a few that are specific for the challenge (how awesome was their shelter? how far did they go? how well did they use their limited equipment options?), which might make it a more approachable tasks for the judges.

I'm mentioning this because it makes the entries a little easier to mentally compare when everyone has one common task (that is more detailed/specific than "simulate a bug-out"). But I also really did just love seeing and getting to read through 20+ trip reports last time, so I support any options that result in high participation. Short of blackmail or some sort of sexual favors trading system. :lol: ;]

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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by Keith B » Mon May 09, 2011 2:07 pm

Trust me, this thread will go at least three pages before any decisions are made, and that means that it wont be happening this weekend.
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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by the_alias » Mon May 09, 2011 2:12 pm

rsnurkle wrote:
sigboy40 wrote:You seem to have missed the point here. We make contests with a set of rules and restrictions that you can either accomplish or you cant. If your stupid enought to go way outside your comfort zone to win some silly internet contest, thats not the forums problem. If you have to take a lighter, take one, and tell us about it. If your disabled and cant walk 50 miles in two days, then walk 8, and tell us about it.

W set the contest to get as many entries as possible, not to try and eliminate people because of their skill level or potential disabilities. Trust me I'd like to see a 48 hour max distance hike, and I'd probaly knock out 100 miles, but most people wont participate.
If high participation is the point, what about having multiple "quest" options for the MBO? For example, my IT band is bothering me this week, so the distance-in-48-hrs challenge is out, but I can still put together a kit, take a short hike, and then build a nice shelter for my main MBO task. Or I can take only 10 items. Or I can just MBO with my normal stuff and document whatever I do. The point would be, that people who took on a particular challenge would be compared to those who also took on that challenge, freeing people to submit entries for whatever MBO-tasks they wanted to tackle.

I realize anyone thinking about volunteering to judge might think multiple "divisions" would get too complicated, but wasn't there a point system based on each relevant aspect of the MBO entry? Each division would have a lot of common questions (did the participate make appropriate plans ahead of time, choose/leave relevant equipment for their task, avoid/take uneccessary risks, etc.) and a few that are specific for the challenge (how awesome was their shelter? how far did they go? how well did they use their limited equipment options?), which might make it a more approachable tasks for the judges.

I'm mentioning this because it makes the entries a little easier to mentally compare when everyone has one common task (that is more detailed/specific than "simulate a bug-out"). But I also really did just love seeing and getting to read through 20+ trip reports last time, so I support any options that result in high participation. Short of blackmail or some sort of sexual favors trading system. :lol: ;]
Interesting ideas...
I suppose a checklist could be made and yeah people aim to try and tick off the most they could.

I mean for me this is all about encouraging people to push themselves and try new stuff than winning any contest.

Based on the above idea could say you have a Summer MBO to go with and you have the opportunity to
Get as far as you can in 48 hours. Points could simply be the number of miles you clock up (maybe an allowance for those of us with mountains :mrgreen:
Only take 15 items: 15-10 = 5 points 10-5 = 10 points etc
Build a shelter using limited resources instead of tent: 10 points

You get the idea!
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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by rsnurkle » Mon May 09, 2011 2:36 pm

sigboy40 wrote:Trust me, this thread will go at least three pages before any decisions are made, and that means that it wont be happening this weekend.
Hehe, I know, but my IT band is my current convenient excuse for not attempting some sort of distance challenge. Watch, even if it heals in the next week, I'm sure it will "flare up" whenever the challenge actually gets posted. :)
the_alias wrote: I mean for me this is all about encouraging people to push themselves and try new stuff than winning any contest.
+1 That is really the main point. I don't know if some of the tasks would interfere with each other (spending time making a shelter versus carrying one if you're doing the distance thing), but yeah, people could definitely go for multiple options if they wanted.

Other potential task ideas:
* demonstrating how to remove signs of your presence (in camp or on the trail)
* demonstrating as many ways as possible to start a fire while on your MBO (unless you're in a fire ban area... =O )

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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by Confucius » Mon May 09, 2011 2:46 pm

I do need to do a shakedown of my gear for this summer's JMT. If the contest goes until late June that'd be swell...

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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by Keith B » Mon May 09, 2011 2:56 pm

the_alias wrote:I suppose a checklist could be made and yeah people aim to try and tick off the most they could.

I mean for me this is all about encouraging people to push themselves and try new stuff than winning any contest.

Based on the above idea could say you have a Summer MBO to go with and you have the opportunity to
Get as far as you can in 48 hours. Points could simply be the number of miles you clock up (maybe an allowance for those of us with mountains :mrgreen:
Only take 15 items: 15-10 = 5 points 10-5 = 10 points etc
Build a shelter using limited resources instead of tent: 10 points

You get the idea!
You know, thats not a bad idea. The winter bug out was judged on three catagories, and points were awarded accordingly. This time, we have some set point standards like you already mentioned. Everybody knows what they are. That way you get your checklist done for those points, then the judges get a few discretionary points to award. Call it 25 points out of 100.
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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by the_alias » Mon May 09, 2011 3:03 pm

Confucius wrote:I do need to do a shakedown of my gear for this summer's JMT. If the contest goes until late June that'd be swell...
I don't see a reason to limit this harshly in time frame. I mean All of June and July could be an option.

I think people should want to enter this contest to truly test themselves. We are all going to have different levels and if it is an eye opening experience for someone on gaps they need to fill in their physical fitness or simply realising they need to work on their knots for setting up a tarp.

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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by Keith B » Mon May 09, 2011 3:17 pm

So far I have something like this:
Summer bug out point structure:
Judges Points - 25 points for misc, awarded at judges discretion for general ability and skills. This also covers non specific creativity, like building a raft with floaties, or making a sled out of your walker.

Set requirements for points: These items are all standard. Your location does not alter any of these,and anybody can do them anywhere.
Pack weight- (dry weight, food and water does not count)
0-10 pounds - 10 points max
10-20 pounds - 7 points
20-30 - 5 points
30-40 - 3 points
40 + - 1 point

Miles hiked(on foot)-
30 miles - 10 points max
25 miles - 8 points
20 miles- 6 points
15 miles -4 points
10 miles - 2 points
weather/ terrain modifiers 2 points each for altitude higher then 5,000 feet, temperature over 90*F

Shelter-
Primitive shelter - 5 points
Lean to/tarp shelter - 3 points
Tent - 1 point
Now what would we need to add or change based upon what contest we would do? Bear in mind, I am not judging this time around, I want to get out and have some fun myself.

Do we want to add a point structure for BOB completeness?
1 point per each of the ten essentials? This would balance out with the weight requirement. And be an easy way to earn ten points off the bat.
5 points for filtering water?
5 points for bushcrafting food?
5 points for catching and skinning a pack rat?

I am open to ideas, this is our contest, lets decide on a compromise that pisses everybody off!
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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by Regulator » Mon May 09, 2011 4:47 pm

mmmmmm.... packrat...


Sounds fun! I'd be down for it again. I won't compete for prizes but I'd make the trip. Any rules are fine :wink:

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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by Chris@MTCT » Mon May 09, 2011 4:59 pm

Are Silcocks allowed?
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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by quazi » Mon May 09, 2011 5:02 pm

sigboy40 wrote:
TFC Rick wrote:If someone has a lower skill level I would think it would be totally with-in "the rules" to bring a small pack/bag with a lighter and other non-minimalist items for safety. That way they could try without them but if they get in a jam, bingo.

Just a thought.
You seem to have missed the point here. We make contests with a set of rules and restrictions that you can either accomplish or you cant. If your stupid enought to go way outside your comfort zone to win some silly internet contest, thats not the forums problem. If you have to take a lighter, take one, and tell us about it. If your disabled and cant walk 50 miles in two days, then walk 8, and tell us about it.
On the other hand, what about emergency signalling gear such as whistles, signal mirrors, PLBs, cell phones and the like? Such items aren't of much use outside of emergencies, and even if someone could improvise different uses for them I think we could rely on the honor system to ensure that it doesn't happen. Bad shit can happen to even the most experienced, and a person doesn't have to be too far off the trail before they're in serious trouble.
rsnurkle wrote:If high participation is the point, what about having multiple "quest" options for the MBO? For example, my IT band is bothering me this week, so the distance-in-48-hrs challenge is out, but I can still put together a kit, take a short hike, and then build a nice shelter for my main MBO task. Or I can take only 10 items. Or I can just MBO with my normal stuff and document whatever I do. The point would be, that people who took on a particular challenge would be compared to those who also took on that challenge, freeing people to submit entries for whatever MBO-tasks they wanted to tackle.
Taking this idea a bit further, what if instead of having one competition we had multiple competitions over the summer, each with a different objective? Each contest could have its own criteria, but a similar number of points, so each individual contest could have a winner and the person with the most points at the end of the summer would be the overall winner.

For example:
A minimalist competition where people show off their bushcraft skills. There could be a list of tasks for people to accomplish (such as shelter building and water purification) and some room for them to show off skills that weren't listed.

An unlimited competition where people show off their gizmos. Said gizmos should be shown in action, not just laid out on the kitchen table.

A distance competition where people actually have to carry their BOB from the unlimited competition (or at least the equivalent or greater weight). This would not necessarily have to be a full-fledged mock bug out, people could hike in circles around their block. The reason for doing it that way is that the competition could be extended to 72 hours or maybe even longer, while still being able to work within people's schedules.

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Re: Summer Contest?

Post by xxxDarksidexxx » Mon May 09, 2011 5:49 pm

i dont care what the rules are, but i dont think that folks should be limited to the amount of gear that can be used.... after all we build these kits for a reason. i know in my area in june and july you will be in a world of shit real quick if you didnt have a way to purify and carry water. one can die from heat stroke in a matter of hours.

with that said i dont have a problem seeing a guy get extra points for purifying water with fire and carrying it in a hog skull. :twisted:

in the spirit of the summer contest here is a picture of a fat head gator hanging out in the hot Florida sun!

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