Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by xxxDarksidexxx » Fri May 07, 2010 9:40 pm

Oguruma wrote:
BigDaddyTX wrote:
Oguruma wrote:16 miles in 5 hours sounds about right... I am not sure that I see the point though? I can pretty much guarantee that you can walk that distance, especially with a light load, unless you get some kind of injury on the way, in which case I would suggest you call it off as to avoid further, more serious injury.... I would say you probably don't need much gear to travel that kind of distance, since it's a single day operation...
Sorta seems like you missed the point.

I'd be all over it, but I live 300 yards from work probably. Might strap it on and go for a walk around the neighborhood just to see how my bag rides after an hour or two, plus I need the exercise anyway.
Possibly. What is the point? Simply to see if he can walk 16 miles with the bag on him? Or is there supposed to be some sort of simulation mishap along the way?
the point is that you, me, or anyone can say i can walk X miles with X lbs of gear strapped to my back, and my gear or myself will not fail, BUT untill you get out and actually do it it means NOTHING. everyone needs to get out with their gear so they know what they and their gear can do as a team. once you know that, then you can better handle an emergency situation if one should be dumped on your lap. :)

OP - awesome bro! cant wait to check out the results! :D

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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by Chris@MTCT » Fri May 07, 2010 10:06 pm

Oguruma wrote:
BigDaddyTX wrote:
Oguruma wrote:16 miles in 5 hours sounds about right... I am not sure that I see the point though? I can pretty much guarantee that you can walk that distance, especially with a light load, unless you get some kind of injury on the way, in which case I would suggest you call it off as to avoid further, more serious injury.... I would say you probably don't need much gear to travel that kind of distance, since it's a single day operation...
Sorta seems like you missed the point.

I'd be all over it, but I live 300 yards from work probably. Might strap it on and go for a walk around the neighborhood just to see how my bag rides after an hour or two, plus I need the exercise anyway.
Possibly. What is the point? Simply to see if he can walk 16 miles with the bag on him? Or is there supposed to be some sort of simulation mishap along the way?
If you cant do it in controlled conditions how are you going to do it in SHTF? Learn your shortcomings and fix them. Test it and fix those. Always improve never assume your perfect or prepare to fail.
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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by phil_in_cs » Fri May 07, 2010 10:12 pm

Oguruma wrote:Possibly. What is the point? Simply to see if he can walk 16 miles with the bag on him? Or is there supposed to be some sort of simulation mishap along the way?
You're missing some back story. In a recent thread, jnathan posted his GHB and gear, some 20lbs plus water, for his 14-15 mile trip home. One poster said there's no way he could do that distance. I happen to know jnathan is one of the strongest and most fit ZS'ers, but I guess that's beside the point. Sigboy's kit weighs about the same as jnathan's, so he decided to set up the challange and do it just because.

I ruck march with a buddy regularly for exercise. We did 8 miles yesterday in 2:21 with 25lbs (steel weight) in our packs plus a 3L water bladder. We've done shorter hikes (as in 6 miles) with 50lbs plus water. It is a great core strength and endurance exercise, and more people should do it. Sigboy is leading the way.
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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by Chris@MTCT » Fri May 07, 2010 10:14 pm

Oh you silly civilians that do this stuff for fun :lol:
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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by GunsUp » Fri May 07, 2010 10:35 pm

I might just come up and drive along next to you taunting you with my locomotion :)

Mine is just under 4 miles, I think I could do it in an hour no prob.... maybe I'll try it this weekend.

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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by Dawgboy » Fri May 07, 2010 11:04 pm

Not happening for me, 66 miles one way and a 5300' elevation drop on the way home. But I don't have to as my new BOL is actually my work as they are renting me a cottage on site.
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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by Chris@MTCT » Fri May 07, 2010 11:28 pm

At least its all down hill....
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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by Glennbo » Sat May 08, 2010 2:45 am

You have no idea what you can encounter on foot as opposed to just driving by in your car. It's a completely different world. There are unsavory people, difficult traffic situations (just try crossing a major road if the drivers happen to be in the mood to ignore traffic laws), messed up sidewalk and road surfaces, places where dogs are a danger, all kinds of things you'd never contemplate until they're in your face and unavoidable. You just don't experience this stuff from your car or by looking at a map.

Just tonight I'm going a round about way home that takes me two miles. It starts raining. I've got a pouch on my bag with the USGI poncho in it. I unzip it, get it out, but now I can't zip it back up because although I situated it on my pack so I could reach it without stopping, I never practiced zipping it back up with the back on. You can't reach the zipper when it's all the way back. My binoculars and sunglasses are in this now wide open pouch ready to fall out. I had to take my whole backpack completely off just to zip up this stupid pouch!

Then I try to put the rain poncho on over my pack. It gets snagged up on a bottle and full canvas dump pouch that I had tied to the back at work. I finally give up and just walk with the poncho hung up over my back. But I realize that I have a loaf of bread in there. Thank goodness after a vicious, curse-filled struggle I got the poncho to totally cover my dump pouch or the loaf of bread would have been soaked and I'd be eating lunchmeat sans sandwiches tonight.

Meantime there are areas where I'm totally blocked by some very deep water buidup curbside. At one point I was stuck in the middle of the road with deep water running the whole block keeping me from crossing. I finally had to trust my boots and just wade into it. Naturally my socks get wet and now my feet are miserable.

Now I know in wet consditions to not travel down that block, that I should move the poncho pouch farther forward, at not to store my cheap canvas dump pouch on the back of the pack it it looks like rain.

There's one house where there always seems to be rowdy teenagers looking for trouble. With my heavy BOB on these clowns could dance around me or push me to the ground for kicks. What am I supposed to do? Pull my Glock and shoot them? I learned to avoid that block to skip any stupid, uneccessary confrontation.

There are other stretches of road that I found have no accomodations for pedestrians whatsoever. Cars get dangerously close. It looks like a good shortcut on the map, but in actuality it's virtual suicide to walk it. Other roads look good on the map but they're made of dirt and peppered with small, deep potholes. In the dark you'd sprain your ankle for sure. Only found out about those recently when testing an alternate route.

In winter the obstacles stack up horribly. You simply can't walk on sidewalks because they're too icy. The sun hitting them melts the snow just enough to create bone-breaking death traps when the temperature goes below freezing. You have to walk on the lawns and be VERY careful when crossing driveways. It's extremely slow going and tiring. Some blocks are so bad that it's best to just go around them or walk in the street and climb back onto the lawns when cars come. Sure on the map it looks like you'll do 3mph. But it takes twice that long. You only find out this stuff by actually doing it.

Finally in some areas you find out that you are completely out of place and will get some unfriendly looks. They don't like strangers with backpacks walking in front of their homes. One mean old man even let his barking dog free to run up to me and scare me. That was really dumb. But these idiots are out there and you won't find out about them from the comfort of your car, and they aren't on any maps.

It has taken me about eight months of walking five-six days a week to discover all the ins and outs, different routes, shortcuts, and character of the surroundings along all the different ways home. And all this for only a one mile walk each way to and from work. I shudder to think of what you guys who try to make it 10+ miles home without even the benefit of a dry run are going to suffer through. In a SHTF situation you might not make it at all.
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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by Glennbo » Sat May 08, 2010 3:10 am

One last, important point. In all my urban hiking I've almost never had to go into my bag for anything. I've got a fully stocked 72 hour BOB on me, and have never needed it once. Not once. It's dead weight. I've just used my rain poncho, some batteries for my headlamp a couple of times, and the water bottle.

Most GHBs are way overstocked. Especially if you consider that in most SHTF situations the real troubles don't start during the first day. Use that first day to get home as fast as possible. Don't lug around a fifty pound BOB like I do. I do it for excersise, not out of practical need.

Although it is good to be prepared to carry a heavy load great distances if you plan to bug out, but not to just get home.
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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by phil_in_cs » Sat May 08, 2010 9:55 am

Not everyone lives in Detriot. My wife and I decided 20 years ago we'd rather have less money and live in a safer area. There are no areas I would need to cross than are more dangerous than crossing a busy street at a light.

ODA 226 made a good point in the other thread that you need to not only know alternate routes, you need to know how to navigate them covertly. Google Earth is a great tool to look around and see what's where.

I have a couple alternate routes mapped, and I've scouted them by car. I haven't decided which, and might just flip a coin when I do this.

I agree that most people's bags are over stocked. That's called contingency planning. While my office is 6 miles from home and I can walk that easily in any weather we have here, what if I am out of town on business? That could put me a much greater distance, possibly requiring an overnight stop. What if my daughter is with me? We have more needs for stuff and yet, I will have to carry her if she gets over tired. While you need to watch stuff from a weight standpoint, stuff can buy you options, and options are a very good thing to have. You can always ditch stuff if you need to.
Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by Squirrley » Sat May 08, 2010 10:57 am

While Glennbo has a point, that you don't actually need all that much more than some good footwear, proper clothing, and some water to walk a long long ways(its kinda what we're genetically/evolutionarily designed to do as humans), thats kinda the point of ZS - being prepared for as much as possible. If anyone had a magical 'bag-of-holding' like in video games, they'd take a whole INCH kit with them. You could injure yourself and be unable to move, or move effectively, you could have other people to support, sometimes its just not safe to be traveling and you'll have to hole up wherever you are. I'd rather have at least a set of long johns to put on during the cold night than not, and as long as you're conscious of the fact that your GHB still has a primary goal of getting you home fast, you can pack a very light-weight pack that will allow you to move fast, yet still have some minimal gear to support yourself for a while in a stationary position of need-be.
phil_in_cs wrote: I agree that most people's bags are over stocked. That's called contingency planning. While my office is 6 miles from home and I can walk that easily in any weather we have here, what if I am out of town on business? That could put me a much greater distance, possibly requiring an overnight stop. What if my daughter is with me? We have more needs for stuff and yet, I will have to carry her if she gets over tired. While you need to watch stuff from a weight standpoint, stuff can buy you options, and options are a very good thing to have. You can always ditch stuff if you need to.
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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by Keith B » Mon May 10, 2010 12:11 pm

ODA 226 wrote:While it's great to know how fast and how far you can go with your GHB, please take into account that if the SHTF and there was massive civil unrest, you'd be a fool to take ANY road back home. You'll most likely be scarfed up by the authorities or beaten to a pulp by rioters.

For the play of the problem, if it takes you lets say, 6 hours to travel 15.7 miles on the road and in clear daylight conditions, multiply your time home 4-5 times if you want to move tactically and securely OFF ROAD.

I, personally would be moving at night only and since I'd be moving alone, I'd estimate that it would take me almost 48 hours to make it from my work to my house. (22 miles and with two river crossings.)

NEVER SACRIFICE SECURITY FOR SPEED!
I agree completely. That being said, 10 miles of my 15.7 is mostly ranch land, I don't really want to get caught trespasing by some onery rancher when the PAW begins. I completely understand the importance of running at night to avoid being spotted.
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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by Razor » Mon May 10, 2010 12:54 pm

15 miles with some weight on is no joke make sure you take good shoes with you to work and plenty of water. And let us know how it goes.
gravediggerfour wrote:Oh you silly civilians that do this stuff for fun :lol:
Haha, I was thinking the same thing.
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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by phil_in_cs » Mon May 10, 2010 1:04 pm

Razor wrote:
gravediggerfour wrote:Oh you silly civilians that do this stuff for fun :lol:
Haha, I was thinking the same thing.
Or in Sigboy's case, what you do after you're out of the Army and don't get paid to do PT anymore....
Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by Shaper » Mon May 10, 2010 1:10 pm

sigboy40 wrote:
ODA 226 wrote:While it's great to know how fast and how far you can go with your GHB, please take into account that if the SHTF and there was massive civil unrest, you'd be a fool to take ANY road back home. You'll most likely be scarfed up by the authorities or beaten to a pulp by rioters.

For the play of the problem, if it takes you lets say, 6 hours to travel 15.7 miles on the road and in clear daylight conditions, multiply your time home 4-5 times if you want to move tactically and securely OFF ROAD.

I, personally would be moving at night only and since I'd be moving alone, I'd estimate that it would take me almost 48 hours to make it from my work to my house. (22 miles and with two river crossings.)

NEVER SACRIFICE SECURITY FOR SPEED!
I agree completely. That being said, 10 miles of my 15.7 is mostly ranch land, I don't really want to get caught trespasing by some onery rancher when the PAW begins. I completely understand the importance of running at night to avoid being spotted.
Nice to see some more practical application of nessesary preparedness skill around here, sigboy.

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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by Razor » Mon May 10, 2010 1:18 pm

phil_in_cs wrote:
Or in Sigboy's case, what you do after you're out of the Army and don't get paid to do PT anymore....
Haha some how I could see my self being that guy later on down the road. I'll be so bored with all the free time...
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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by Keith B » Tue May 11, 2010 1:34 pm

Razor wrote:
phil_in_cs wrote:
Or in Sigboy's case, what you do after you're out of the Army and don't get paid to do PT anymore....
Haha some how I could see my self being that guy later on down the road. I'll be so bored with all the free time...
Than you end up getting pissed when some guy on the Internet says you cant do 15 miles in a day, and dedide that some practical application is in order because actions speak louder than words.

Razor, take my advice and stay in shape after you get out, it's a bitch to get back after you have lost it.
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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by PistolPete » Tue May 11, 2010 3:10 pm

I'm really looking forward to seeing how this turns out. 16 miles with a pack is a long way if you don't do it regularly. I do "mock bug outs" from time to time where we hike in the city with our BOBs. The one we did last Friday I was testing a new pack and carried 50 lbs instead of my normal 35. I figured it wouldn't be very different. And it wasn't. Until I got home later and my feet were pretty sore. My feet never get sore! But that extra 15 lbs was enough extra pressure that the bottom of my feet were pretty sore, even the next day. And we only did about 6 miles.

I never would have found this out if I hadn't practiced. Now I know that if I'm carrying 50 lbs or more I need to wear my new cushy boots and not my old every day boots. And I should probably put new insoles in my every day boots in case I do need to carry some weight.
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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by Keith B » Tue May 11, 2010 6:24 pm

My normal hikes are 6-8, so this is double what I normally do. I am taking my GHB, weighing in at about 12 pounds. Last Friday I did six miles with 42 pounds in 1 hour 40 minutes. Two weeks before that I did the same six miles in 90 minutes even with my GHB.

Tomorrow's weather looks decent, 80* temps with a 20 mph headwind. Luckily the wind is letting up a bit. Yesterday we had 45 mph winds with gusts up to 95 (yes, 95 and it wasnt even a record). I'm just glad that I dont have to fight that. I dont anticipate 20mph winds adding too much time to my little gaunt.
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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by Chris@MTCT » Tue May 11, 2010 6:27 pm

Good Luck brother! I cant wait to hear how it comes out! Your ass is going to have to come to MO sometime when I get there. Maybe Wintergedon this year?
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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by phil_in_cs » Tue May 11, 2010 6:33 pm

gravediggerfour wrote:Good Luck brother! I cant wait to hear how it comes out! Your ass is going to have to come to MO sometime when I get there. Maybe Wintergedon this year?
I don't know if you heard, but it was cold at Wintergedon last year.
Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by Razor » Tue May 11, 2010 6:42 pm

sigboy40 wrote:
Razor, take my advice and stay in shape after you get out, it's a bitch to get back after you have lost it.
Haha roger that, though I doubt my better half would let that happen she'd talk to much shit if I started getting outta shape.
sigboy40 wrote:My normal hikes are 6-8, so this is double what I normally do. I am taking my GHB, weighing in at about 12 pounds. Last Friday I did six miles with 42 pounds in 1 hour 40 minutes. Two weeks before that I did the same six miles in 90 minutes even with my GHB.

Tomorrow's weather looks decent, 80* temps with a 20 mph headwind. Luckily the wind is letting up a bit. Yesterday we had 45 mph winds with gusts up to 95 (yes, 95 and it wasnt even a record). I'm just glad that I dont have to fight that. I dont anticipate 20mph winds adding too much time to my little gaunt.
That's a good pace with that weight and over that distance, I'm really interested in how you do and what your thoughts are on the walk.
Absit invidia.

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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by BigDaddyTX » Tue May 11, 2010 7:51 pm

phil_in_cs wrote:
gravediggerfour wrote:Good Luck brother! I cant wait to hear how it comes out! Your ass is going to have to come to MO sometime when I get there. Maybe Wintergedon this year?
I don't know if you heard, but it was cold at Wintergedon last year.
:lol:
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Re: Get Home Bag, Practical Test and Challenge

Post by Keith B » Wed May 12, 2010 8:36 am

BigDaddyTX wrote:
phil_in_cs wrote:
gravediggerfour wrote:Good Luck brother! I cant wait to hear how it comes out! Your ass is going to have to come to MO sometime when I get there. Maybe Wintergedon this year?
I don't know if you heard, but it was cold at Wintergedon last year.
:lol:
I really dont know how Phil knows it was cold, he wasn't there....
I think I can arrange Wintergeddon with you and the Chapter 01 crew.
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