How many miles could you bug out?

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by amd2800barton » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:35 pm

ironraven wrote:In a day- 20 miles easy, 30 if I really had to. Not sure I could do a "march through the night, 70 miles in one haul" again.

Given time.... all the way.
again? :shock:
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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by KaceCoyote » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:22 am

Festus Hagen wrote:Ahem.

2500 miles a day suggests an average speed of 104 miles per hour. Including stops, rest, gas stop, eating, everything. To do so for TWO days would imply doing all that all over again, including any sleep you might need.

I've done 600+ mile days many times, it's somewhat rough but doable. I could do 1000 in a pinch, have known competitive distance riders to do 1500 or a bit more but that's a long ways from 2500...

800 in the dirt sounds pretty super-human too...

KaceCoyote wrote:20 miles a day is my upmost limit if I'm walking.

aproximately 2,000-2,500 a day if I'm on my motorcycle.
Offroad maybe 800 miles.
Comfortably about 400 miles.
Doing something because you want to, and doing something because you must are two different things.

Just the same could I do 800 miles on nice gravel roads, totally. Could I do 800 on mud and rutted, nasty gravel, hell no.

Could I do 2500 miles a day on my bike, I'll agree I may have over estimated. Could I do 2500 in 24 hours, no. Could I do it in a single big push, without stopping for more than gas? Yes I think I could do 2500 in maybe 36-48 hours without anymore time off the bike than it took to refill the gas tank.

Would I be combat effective, or capable of hiking much after riding about 2k miles? No I dont think so. I think, if left to my own devices 1000 miles is my "practical" limit for 1 day. I'm not gonna do much more than setup my camp, eat and sleep after doing a thousand miles on a DR650.

Theres a lot of variables here, and I'm making guestimations. I'm pretty good at enduring discomfort, and I dont fall asleep easily(especially not on a bike) but who knows.

What could I do after a long day at work, followed by fighting zombies and then the huge adrenaline crash that follows? Who knows.
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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by LakotaJones » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:14 am

I see a lot of people saying they could hike 20-30 miles per day. I did the bataan memorial march in the military light. That is 37 miles or so.... By the time it was over, I had a fever, I lost several toe nails, and my feet were covered in blisters.

Our Ex-Special Forces Medic lost 3 toe nails and had to wear sandals to work due to the blisters.

My conditioning at the time? Above Mil-Spec. I weighed 208 pounds and had a body fat percentage of 7%. I carried water and MRE's. If you saying, "I can walk 20 miles... easy..." You might want to rethink that...

Just saying....

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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by LakotaJones » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:17 am

Oh, and... In my car? Probably not going to get very far. I drive an s2000.

On foot? I know I could go 37 miles in a day. How ever, I will have little combat effectiveness when done, and will need about a months rest to get back to 100%.

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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by Festus Hagen » Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:33 am

KaceCoyote wrote: Doing something because you want to, and doing something because you must are two different things.

Just the same could I do 800 miles on nice gravel roads, totally. Could I do 800 on mud and rutted, nasty gravel, hell no.
Suppose I'm under my car changing the oil and the jacks fail? Perhaps I *must* bench-press it off of me, but it doesn't mean I *can*. In any case I'd point out that "nice gravel roads" does not equal "off-road". But even in your example of nice gravel roads, are you really a good enough rider to average 80 miles per hour for 10 hours including gas stops (assuming there is gas for you somewhere on all these gravel roads, which... there isn't) Are you going to go slower but end up riding those gravel roads in the dark?

Your DR650, unless heavily and expensively modified, will top out at maybe just over 100mph. Your odds of that 2500 mile day have just gone down in my eyes ;-) 1000/day is within reach, but your ass will have blisters on top of blisters.

Look, I'm not trying to bust your balls, I just think you'll be better off in your planning if your mileage goals are more realistic. You may have an S on your chest compared to me for all I know, but you and your machine (one of my favorite motorcycles btw) have limits and you can either respect them or crash and burn trying not to.
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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by Big A » Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:54 am

Given the right circumstances and a healthy dose of
"motivation" I have no doubt anyone of us could march
for freaking ever, Man.

Believe it.

To save our miserable lives, we will do ANYTHING we HAVE to.
As someone posted above, you can and will walk yourself into
shape, though I will wager one's BOB and INCH bags will lose
a lot of dead weight in the process.

Read your history books, folks.
"All I want from you is a little civility, and that
of the commonest goddamnest kind."

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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by SweetTea » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:48 am

LakotaJones wrote:I see a lot of people saying they could hike 20-30 miles per day. I did the bataan memorial march in the military light. That is 37 miles or so.... By the time it was over, I had a fever, I lost several toe nails, and my feet were covered in blisters.

Our Ex-Special Forces Medic lost 3 toe nails and had to wear sandals to work due to the blisters.

My conditioning at the time? Above Mil-Spec. I weighed 208 pounds and had a body fat percentage of 7%. I carried water and MRE's. If you saying, "I can walk 20 miles... easy..." You might want to rethink that...

Just saying....
I don't know about the other people on here, but I know I can hike 20 miles a day. I've done 16 mile days over very hilly, rough terrain and it didn't take nearly the whole day. If it was over highways or roads, 20 mile days would be ok. I'm not saying I wouldn't be stiff the morning after, but it's possible.
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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by KaceCoyote » Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:15 pm

Festus Hagen wrote:
KaceCoyote wrote: Doing something because you want to, and doing something because you must are two different things.

Just the same could I do 800 miles on nice gravel roads, totally. Could I do 800 on mud and rutted, nasty gravel, hell no.
Suppose I'm under my car changing the oil and the jacks fail? Perhaps I *must* bench-press it off of me, but it doesn't mean I *can*. In any case I'd point out that "nice gravel roads" does not equal "off-road". But even in your example of nice gravel roads, are you really a good enough rider to average 80 miles per hour for 10 hours including gas stops (assuming there is gas for you somewhere on all these gravel roads, which... there isn't) Are you going to go slower but end up riding those gravel roads in the dark?

Your DR650, unless heavily and expensively modified, will top out at maybe just over 100mph. Your odds of that 2500 mile day have just gone down in my eyes ;-) 1000/day is within reach, but your ass will have blisters on top of blisters.

Look, I'm not trying to bust your balls, I just think you'll be better off in your planning if your mileage goals are more realistic. You may have an S on your chest compared to me for all I know, but you and your machine (one of my favorite motorcycles btw) have limits and you can either respect them or crash and burn trying not to.
My planning revolves around 400 mile intervals, I dont think its safe to plan for much beyond that.

How many miles -could- I bug out, yeah maybe. As I said, I dont think I can do 2500 miles in 24 hours, maybe 36/48. Will I ever attempt to do 2500 miles in 36, or even 48 hours? No.

I dont have anywhere further than 600 miles, I'm particularly motivated to get to.
Kace, the Coyote without a cause.

Only bovines and homosexuals come out of Texas -Politically corrected R Lee Ermey


When the smoke clear, you can see the sky again
There will be the chopped off heads of leviathan
My friend, they call 'em strangers
Everybody talk to him end up in some danger
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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by Woods Walker » Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:45 pm

LakotaJones wrote:I see a lot of people saying they could hike 20-30 miles per day. I did the bataan memorial march in the military light. That is 37 miles or so.... By the time it was over, I had a fever, I lost several toe nails, and my feet were covered in blisters.

Our Ex-Special Forces Medic lost 3 toe nails and had to wear sandals to work due to the blisters.

My conditioning at the time? Above Mil-Spec. I weighed 208 pounds and had a body fat percentage of 7%. I carried water and MRE's. If you saying, "I can walk 20 miles... easy..." You might want to rethink that...

Just saying....
I have done 20 using a daypack. Hiked to a lake and returned to base camp. But there is no way I could pull that off with my BOB in winter mode. Also the risk of getting hurt seems to go up without rest. Just too risky. Anyways as stated distance on foot is measured in time not miles unless someone is on a flat road and the weather is good. Then maybe an average speed could be maintained over a longer distance.

Funny thing about judging physical limits when in a comfortable environment like the living room. Seem to make everyone overestimate their capabilities. I have fallen prey to this too. Some time ago I posted a thread. My goal was something like 16 miles with 80lbs on my back within 24 hours during the colder months if I remember right. :oops: Well at the time I was sure this was possible from the comfort of my home. But the hills and weather reminded me of my limitations. :(
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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by MJS8725 » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:04 am

I know I can do at least 12 with my pack and rifle, thats as far as I've gone. If anybody has doubts please feel free to visit me and we can go for a walk. :wink: I am sure that 20-30 will be very possible, thats not to say I wouldn't be blistered up or have other problems but I walk a lot for my job and I am slowly extending my range. I am sure I could go along way if I had the proper motivation, zombies, for example.
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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by Ufdyixcaff » Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:02 am

I regularly go long distance backpacking. My style is all about moving light and fast, and can put in 30-40 miles per day and enjoy it. My BOB type gear is more sturdy than my sport hiking stuff, but it is similarly intended for light and fast movement. I can maintain 4mph speeds over most terrain I encounter in my area, if the weather cooperates and my motivation stays appropriately peaked. I maintain (between 1st, 2nd and a/3rd line gear) enough food to cover 5 spartan days. Covering roughly 40 miles per day for 5 days, I can boot scoot myself about 200 miles. This however is just for me, under optimal conditions. I would not be able to maintain anything resembling this pace in a true bug out situation as I would not be alone. My speed would also be seriously hampered by non-cooperative weather. Most importantly, just because it is POSSIBLE to "Bravo Two Zero" yourself out of a danger zone doesnt mean it is advisable. Speed for the sake of speed occurs at the sacrifice of situational awareness. If you are forcibly on foot, Id recommend keeping your situational awareness revved up.

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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by SpiritWalker » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:13 am

20 miles a day on foot is doable but not easy or fun for the first few days as I've said. You also need to consider the other members of your group, if any. Children, older adults or those with disabilities may not be able to make 20 full miles.

Another thing to consider is how much you are carrying. I can and have carried 7-10 days worth of dehydrated foods, planning 3 full meals plus a couple snacks per day. In practice however, I find that I eat much less while "on the move" for the first two weeks. 1 or 2 meals per day and a couple granola bars satisfies my appetite so I can stretch my initial supplies to a couple weeks easily. After a couple weeks, my appetite increases somewhat.

Your area and the possible reasons for bugging out should determine the extent of your plans. I'd only need to hike a hundred miles and probably less for anything I can anticipate in my area. If I lived near St. Louis, I'd prepare to hike several hundred to 1000 miles in case the New Madrid Seismic Zone lets loose a big one.
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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by Prawn Star » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:19 pm

I'm a postal worker in the uk,i walk daily10-15,six days a week miles as well as a lot of Football(soccer)and an ocasional run....

The mail bags weigh up to 16 kgs,not quite a bug out weight,but a strain on the body none the less.the key is fluid and low gi food in my experiance(eg nuts seads etc)

Ireckon 25 miles a day spaced over a period with breaks etc would be efficiant,any more and your gonna strain or be weak,which is not good on the run.And considering children,i recently walked to meet my girlfriend from work with my niece,the route takes me 25 minutes...but took me 1 hour with an infant,

I also cycled a few years back to work and back,around 12 miles,this kept me reasonably fit,and did a charity bike ride of 100 miles,and i was exhausted,that is without any extra weight to carry.

I wouldn't drive anywhere at speed,I'd keep the revs low,and the engine stable.

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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by Paragon » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:17 pm

Woods Walker wrote:I have done 20 using a daypack. Hiked to a lake and returned to base camp. But there is no way I could pull that off with my BOB in winter mode. Also the risk of getting hurt seems to go up without rest. Just too risky. Anyways as stated distance on foot is measured in time not miles unless someone is on a flat road and the weather is good.
I've done about half that mileage (10 miles or so) with my summer-equipped BoB, although it was really freakin' hot and humid, so I'd take the cold weather and extra weight if it were my choice.

Perhaps my logic is a bit skewed, but I figure that if I'm bugging out on foot then things will have to be pretty fucked up, and if that's the case then I'm not really in any particular hurry to get somewhere else that's really fucked up. More than likely, a bug out on foot simply means that I don't want to be where I am presently, so as long as I disappear into the woods and put some distance behind me, for all practical purposes I can pretty much hunker down once I'm in a relatively secure zone that will provide shelter from the elements, a source of wood, water that can be made potable, and a reasonable chance for food.

If on the other hand I do need to be somewhere by a particular time, then that sounds to me more like a long walk home from a disabled car in the middle of BFE, and thus with my GHB (especially trimmed down at the scene based on the local terrain and weather at the time) I'm probably looking at the ability to cover whatever distance I need to in the alloted time.

I have a buddy that is really into ultralight backpacking, and as such is quite the gram weannie (brushes his teeth with camp soap because he doesn't want to carry toothpaste and soap, will only carry the portion of a topo map that he expects to use, etc). He works out daily, and walks the AT nearly every free weekend that he has. His primary goal when he goes out is to leave whoever he's with at the time (or happens to meet along the AT) collapsed in the fetal position gasping for air along the side of the trail.

On a hike last February we broke camp and were on the trail by 6:30 am, and despite the fact it was only in the mid 30's and not going much higher that day, he was wearing shorts (commando style even) and a t-shirt. When I asked him if that was all he was going to wear, he said something like "yeah, if I get chilled then I know I'm not walking fast enough". I really don't think 40 miles a day for him is unusual, and I'm sure he could do more if someone was actually keeping up with him. Personally, if I want to see nature whizzing by, I'll drive.

Jim

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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by phil_in_cs » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:42 pm

Don't overestimate how far you can get in a car. You won't be the only one bugging out.

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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by 111t » Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:42 pm

yeah when i was in scouts we did a '20 mile hike' once a year. This was usually along some perfectly (or nearly) level path such as a canal path or roads. This was also very lightly burdened. Often all we had was a canteen and there were regular support stations of parents doing sort of a 'rolling tailgate.' The terrain and climate is a MAJOR factor. Around here we hav great rolling hills left by the glaciers after the last ice age. I was just out on a camping trip. We carried daypacks with lunch, water and some basic emergency gear. The temps were in the high 70's to mid 80's. The first day we did 5.3 miles and probably could have done a couple more. The second day we did 7.5 and were BEAT by the end of the day. The up and down is what kills ya around here. The third day we had another 5 miler planned but we called it off. I bet i could do 5 per day with my BOB over this sort of terrain. That's when there isn't snow on the ground. That puts my food re-supply radius at about 50 miles.
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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by Gingersam » Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:48 pm

I reckon could bug out maybe 15 miles per day over hill terrain for up to a week and still maintain partial combat effectiveness. This is based on how I often hike 15 mile days while carrying multi day packs.

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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by LakotaJones » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:46 pm

Big A wrote:Given the right circumstances and a healthy dose of
"motivation" I have no doubt anyone of us could march
for freaking ever, Man.

Believe it.

To save our miserable lives, we will do ANYTHING we HAVE to.
As someone posted above, you can and will walk yourself into
shape, though I will wager one's BOB and INCH bags will lose
a lot of dead weight in the process.

Read your history books, folks.
Yes, do read the history books. Find out how many men were bayoneted by angry Japanese who didn't want to have to look "up" at a prisoner. If you stumbled, you were knifed. Fell down? Knifed... You know why people who survive death marches and such are famous? Because most every one else died.

No, there is no "marching forever". The mogadishu mile? Bataan? The march of tears? Not easy. Not fun. and Not a simple "suck it up march". Those men and women are all famous for surviving because most every one else did not...

Just FYI....

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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by Big A » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:50 pm

LakotaJones wrote:
Big A wrote:Given the right circumstances and a healthy dose of
"motivation" I have no doubt anyone of us could march
for freaking ever, Man.

Believe it.

To save our miserable lives, we will do ANYTHING we HAVE to.
As someone posted above, you can and will walk yourself into
shape, though I will wager one's BOB and INCH bags will lose
a lot of dead weight in the process.

Read your history books, folks.
Yes, do read the history books. Find out how many men were bayoneted by angry Japanese who didn't want to have to look "up" at a prisoner. If you stumbled, you were knifed. Fell down? Knifed... You know why people who survive death marches and such are famous? Because most every one else died.

No, there is no "marching forever". The mogadishu mile? Bataan? The march of tears? Not easy. Not fun. and Not a simple "suck it up march". Those men and women are all famous for surviving because most every one else did not...

Just FYI....
I wasn't thinking in QUITE those extreme examples, i.e., "escorted"
marches, but rather like when the Commonwealth soldiers retreated
across Burma with the Japanese breathing down their necks, Napoleon's
retreat from Moscow, the "tactical withdrawal" of US Forces from
North Korea when the Chinese shellacked us, that kind of situation.

Namely, folks in reasonably decent health "bugging out"
in front of a lot of other folks.

But I get your point.
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of the commonest goddamnest kind."

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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by jptp0831 » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:58 pm

I can walk as far as I need too.
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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by Woods Walker » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:58 pm

Paragon wrote:
Woods Walker wrote:I have done 20 using a daypack. Hiked to a lake and returned to base camp. But there is no way I could pull that off with my BOB in winter mode. Also the risk of getting hurt seems to go up without rest. Just too risky. Anyways as stated distance on foot is measured in time not miles unless someone is on a flat road and the weather is good.
I've done about half that mileage (10 miles or so) with my summer-equipped BoB, although it was really freakin' hot and humid, so I'd take the cold weather and extra weight if it were my choice.

Perhaps my logic is a bit skewed, but I figure that if I'm bugging out on foot then things will have to be pretty fucked up, and if that's the case then I'm not really in any particular hurry to get somewhere else that's really fucked up. More than likely, a bug out on foot simply means that I don't want to be where I am presently, so as long as I disappear into the woods and put some distance behind me, for all practical purposes I can pretty much hunker down once I'm in a relatively secure zone that will provide shelter from the elements, a source of wood, water that can be made potable, and a reasonable chance for food.

If on the other hand I do need to be somewhere by a particular time, then that sounds to me more like a long walk home from a disabled car in the middle of BFE, and thus with my GHB (especially trimmed down at the scene based on the local terrain and weather at the time) I'm probably looking at the ability to cover whatever distance I need to in the alloted time.

I have a buddy that is really into ultralight backpacking, and as such is quite the gram weannie (brushes his teeth with camp soap because he doesn't want to carry toothpaste and soap, will only carry the portion of a topo map that he expects to use, etc). He works out daily, and walks the AT nearly every free weekend that he has. His primary goal when he goes out is to leave whoever he's with at the time (or happens to meet along the AT) collapsed in the fetal position gasping for air along the side of the trail.

On a hike last February we broke camp and were on the trail by 6:30 am, and despite the fact it was only in the mid 30's and not going much higher that day, he was wearing shorts (commando style even) and a t-shirt. When I asked him if that was all he was going to wear, he said something like "yeah, if I get chilled then I know I'm not walking fast enough". I really don't think 40 miles a day for him is unusual, and I'm sure he could do more if someone was actually keeping up with him. Personally, if I want to see nature whizzing by, I'll drive.

Jim

Jim.

As stated distance on foot is measured in time not miles. I have taken all day just to do 5-miles. But oh man those 5-miles sucked. I wouldn’t even try to keep up with your buddy. I go at a pace that is reasonable for me. Going too fast is just looking for injury. That can come from overheating or falls etc. Things I really don’t want anything to do with. My systems with the exception of the extended hot weather daypack are setup for a comfortable camp. The main reason is winter. Walking my ass off all day too hard is just asking for perspiration. Just fine on the move but when someone stops the perspiration freezes. Covered in frozen clothes at below zero is no way to setup camp. Sometimes someone can get father by going slower. A good example of this is the Alaska experiment TV show. These people moved too fast to their extraction point. One guy got his leg trapped under a rock. Most collapsed one by one. I have hiked in sub zero and knew just what the problem was. As they perspired the water froze. Than someone would collapse. The whole group then stopped and started a fire and gave the beaten down individual warm water. A good move however the rest would start to freeze as their perspiration turned to ice. Then maybe a few miles later another would collapse. Go figure? The whole process would start all over again. If not for the fact they were in a group I am certain some would have died. If the whole group slowed down they would have covered more ground.

Then there is the issue of physical conditioning. I have too much body fat but hike 4-5 times a week with a pack. You have spent your share of time in the woods for certain. However I am betting most here have not. So they read about people covering 20 or 30 miles in a day and think from the comfort of their computer keyboard they can do it too. Heat related injuries can sneak up on someone. I have seen people become nearly indifferent to the situation. One person nearly passed out. Said he couldn’t feel his arms anymore. Probably because he was dragging them for miles. Refused to drink enough water despite my advice. Only threat of force made him drink. Crazy but it happens. So I really worry about threads like this for those without enough experience and training.
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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by Paragon » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:36 pm

Woods Walker wrote:As stated distance on foot is measured in time not miles. I have taken all day just to do 5-miles. But oh man those 5-miles sucked.
The ten miles or so that I covered (relatively comfortably) last October involved some elevation change, but for the most part the ground was solid and free of rocks/stumps/ruts. In conditions such as these, two miles per hour is pretty comfortable for me, and five or six hours of walking with a couple of rest stops and a decent lunch break is well within my capability. Even in the winter months, this still leaves me 2-3 hours for camp setup and wood gathering.

I have found that when I'm pushed close to my limits, I can usually find the mental/physical strength to rise to the ocassion (for awhile anyway) although my situational awareness drops to a dangerous level. It's almost a case of my mind using all it's resources to push through the physical pain and fatigue, with nothing left over in reserve to prevent myself from making stupid mistakes/decisions. This is obviously when injuries are most likely...

I also believe that a positive mental attitude is >90% of the battle, so I get significantly more satisfaction from being comfortable in camp and enjoying a nice meal and a cup of coffe than I do from pushing to put a couple more miles behind me.

Jim

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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by Paragon » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:51 pm

Woods Walker wrote:Then there is the issue of physical conditioning. I have too much body fat but hike 4-5 times a week with a pack. You have spent your share of time in the woods for certain. However I am betting most here have not. So they read about people covering 20 or 30 miles in a day and think from the comfort of their computer keyboard they can do it too.

I really worry about threads like this for those without enough experience and training.
You raise a very valid point. I'm generally pretty comfortable in the wilderness because I've made the decision to invest in quality gear, and have spent some time using it, understanding it, and knowing what its/my limitations are.

There is perhaps no one on this board that is more experienced with his equipment than yourself. Quality gear and the experience that comes from using it regularly allows you to know what to expect and what your capabilities are.

One hot spot due to a pair of hiking boots that aren't properly broken in, a pack that isn't adjusted properly to distribute the weight, a poorly orientated tent/hammock/rainfly in the rain, or wearing inappropriate clothing for the weather conditions can ruin anybody's day. Once you're in pain physically, the mental attitude drops fast, and in the wilderness damn near nothing will restore you to the condition that you were in when you started.

Jim
Last edited by Paragon on Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How many miles could you bug out?

Post by Ecko » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:52 pm

In ideal conditions I could do 25 a day (we are talking ideal), in shitty conditions I could do maybe 10-14 but I would be half dead by that point and I would prefer pacing myself and being alert in the process.

Generally speaking I plan for 16 to be on the safe side.
andygates wrote: Ecko is pretty much right.
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