Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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teotwaki
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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by teotwaki » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:11 pm

derf26 wrote:
Functions:
1. Self-defense.
2. Hunting small game.
3. Hunting large game.

Constraints:
1. Size.
2. Weight.
3. Concealability (optional but might be a good idea).

22LR ammo is very light and small, so it satisfies all of the constraints, but it's only really good for hunting small game. Even though it could be used for self-defense in a pinch, the reliability of rimfire is so poor I'd rather not. A 22 takedown rifle would be much better for accuracy than a pistol, especially beyond 20 yards, but since the rifle is also going to be fairly inaccurate past 100 yards, and can't effectively harvest large game or be used for self-defense, is it better to go with a 22 pistol for small game and a bigger rifle for larger game and self-defense?

Or would you just stick to a semi-auto pistol in a common caliber like 9mm for self-defense?

Derf26: what do you mean by poor reliability of rimfire? Failure to go "bang" or to hit and kill a human within rimfire ranges?

For myself I don't want a gunfight and would prefer to slip by unnoticed, especially when solo.

I don't expect to be taken on by bad guys who are good shots at 600+ yards so no need for counter-sniper fire. More likely is the chance of being robbed at gunpoint so a pistol would be good.

For short forays I'd go with a 9mm pistol. Longer forays outside of cities a takedown .22 might be more practical.
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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by woodsghost » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:42 pm

Just my experience:

Rimfires fail to go Bang at a rate of .5% to 10%, depending on age, storage condition, quality, and firearm used.

My failure rates with factory center fire is about .004%. Handloads have had more problems than that.

Just my experience so far.
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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by RickOShea » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:10 pm

Asymetryczna wrote:Whoa. I was just bugging out. Maybe I'll camp for awhile. None of those counter-sniper missions, breaking contact by suppressive fire or low vis, suppressed and silent taking out of the sentries for me. It's ironic how topics about survival are turned to combat so quickly. I don't even know if there is an enemy or who they are
Welp, if you do any hunting whilst camping, you may be able to use your suppressor(s). :awesome:




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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by teotwaki » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:08 pm

woodsghost wrote:Just my experience:

Rimfires fail to go Bang at a rate of .5% to 10%, depending on age, storage condition, quality, and firearm used.

My failure rates with factory center fire is about .004%. Handloads have had more problems than that.

Just my experience so far.

I run four rimfire rifles and the few rounds that I can recall that did not fire I chalked up to the semi-auto weapon needing a good cleaning. (?) In my inventory are the following brands of ammo:

Federal, Remington, CCI, Armscor, Winchester, and Browning. I've not fired any of the Winchester or Browning as they are the odd lots set aside for a comparison run some day. Thousands of rounds of the first four brands have been fired without noticeable issues. I think the bolt action never had FTFs but one semi-auto did. Maybe my FTFs are in less than the 0.5% range? It could be the price range and quality level are factors; basically the cheap RemThunderbolt is not as reliable as the CCI MiniMags?

For instance I've never had an issue with the CCI Mini Mag plated 36 grain but I think the cheap Rem Thunderbolts might have been the ones that FTF'ed. When on camping trips I usually loan out a semi-auto with a box of cheap ammo for getting newbies into the sport.

Other than differences in accuracy I've not had enough FTFs to really count. All of my ammo is stored in metal military .50 cal boxes and kept in cool temps.

I think the poorest quality centerfire ammo I ever had was cheap Norinco .223. One time I found a primer that had blown out and it was stuck in the trigger assembly of the rifle! Lots of failures to fire on that stuff too.

Good topic. I'm going to pay a lot more attention to the rimfire ammo. :mrgreen:
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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by Asymetryczna » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:04 am

Rick, good point. Legal here, I have tried to suppress nearly everything except the older stuff and the shotguns. The two deer taken with a compound bow last month would count as well in my book. Just no counter sniper missions or anti-assassin wet-work here in this state.

With regard to hangfires, misfires, or squibs, there are a few steps you can take even if you do not maintain a gun book with the respective firearm. If I cannot determine the reason for the malfunction I report it. Be sure to make note of the cartridge and lot, the firearm used and the conditions. Did you safely unload and examine the cartridge, and attempt to re-fire? How many cartridges did you have a problem with, etc.? At the very least I would post the results online, including with the manufacturer and vendor, as well as a forum associated with the cartridges, Rimfire Central for example. In the early 90s, I began to see a lot of misfires with a certain cartridge -every day- so I contacted nearly everyone that used it and asked them to fill out a report for every failure and submit it to me. Once I had the evidence in hand I pursued a fix which included finding an advocate and the funding necessary for a fix. It took some time, but as a result the M118LR was introduced and the problem went away.

Well, I have to bug out to my neighbors farm for the rest of the morning. Carrying a M1 Garand and a Springfield 1911.
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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by teotwaki » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:12 am

Asymetryczna wrote:Well, I have to bug out to my neighbors farm for the rest of the morning. Carrying a M1 Garand and a Springfield 1911.
Be sure to watch out for the North Korean infiltrators posing as farmers! J/K

Good advice on the systematic tracking of ammo failures.
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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by Asymetryczna » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:37 am

Thanks. To be real clear, I am a tergiversator on this topic, given unknown METT-TSL.
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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by JeeperCreeper » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:47 pm

I was at the gun store playing with their single shots, and they had one of those Rossi Tuffy .410 shotguns. Brand new they wanted like $150 or something. Maybe less, probably less.

Plus... it weighs 3 pounds. Yes, 3 pounds, and was the size of a toy. OAL is 29" or there-a-bouts.

I know a couple years ago, all the internet youtube experts swore that little singles were the bug-out-bees-knees, and that has all but been dismissed by other internet youtube experts...
...but for a cheap light and reliable backpack firearms, a little .410 can solve a lot of problems even if a compromise in others.
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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by Asymetryczna » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:55 pm

The more I think about this thread the more I admire the original post.
First, there is the idea that this question has never been posted here before.
Second, without proper context it is difficult to answer to my level of satisfaction.
Third, one could answer practically every day and change their minds each time, a little.
Fourth, it reminded me that I don’t really have 1 standard answer; thus, it is best to have options.
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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by JeeperCreeper » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:04 pm

Asymetryczna wrote:The more I think about this thread the more I admire the original post.
First, there is the idea that this question has never been posted here before.
Second, without proper context it is difficult to answer to my level of satisfaction.
Third, one could answer practically every day and change their minds each time, a little.
Fourth, it reminded me that I don’t really have 1 standard answer; thus, it is best to have options.
I think it was more of an open ended discussion than a question-answer thing. Like, "what's the meaning of life?" as opposed to "what's the square root of pi?".

I love guns, so it gives me a reason to think about guns in various scenarios:
Same as "What's the best hunting rifle"... things to consider: mountain? swamp? brush? plains? Africa? squirrels?
Or "What's the best HD weapon?"... things to consider: budget? apartment? house? local laws? gun experience? family scenario?

I deleted my other social media platforms so this is how I pass time when I'm scrolling the net when I'm supposed to be working. I like posts like this... considering your third point as I've changed my opinion everyday on here.
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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by flybynight » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:57 pm

It's these kind of discussions , reading others peoples thoughts and ideas that shape and change my own ideas on how I should prep.
This discussion in particular caused me to consider possible scenarios and how they would relate to myself. I have a serious disconnect on the idea of actually bugging out. I've stated before , my bugout bag is actually a GHB. So I read BOB and think GHB. Gunwriter ( since he is located so near to me with the same type of topography ) caused me to reconsider my choice of truck long arm ( still from a GHB point of view). Which then had me pondering what possible scenario I could be facing ( and still survive ) that I needed a ultra accurate AR. Which sent me into a search for a possible folding stock option for said long arm ( shotgun) in truck, since short of total war, my best bet would be to be as grey man as possible with the long arm being as unobtrusive as possible . Still questioning the worthiness of a shotgun I shopped various carbines that could be SBR'd . Which then led me to a page of a company that is about to launch a bullpup stock for high point carbines. HMMM. And finally I arrived at the original question. What would it take to cause me to bug out ( INCH style) and what would I take. My conclusion was total breakdown of civilization and I would take a accurate, sturdy bolt action and my most dependable semi auto pistol . ( or a Hawken rifle and cap and ball revolver.... so far) Since my only chance of survival is to go all Indian and just not be seen or heard and definitely not get into any firefight caused by overconfidence in my choice of rapid fire weapon.
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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by boskone » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:05 am

A bit late, maybe, but I've been considering a Savage 42. It's not going to be great for bear defense or whatnot (if a concern), but it's reasonably lightweight (6lbs), and being able to use shot or slugs from the .410 could be useful (harvesting birds or deer, respectively, at short ranges), and you can take a lot of meat in the form of rabbits or squirrels with the .22.

It can be configured with .22lr or wmr; I'd probably lean towards the lr since there's a .410 involved.

A lighter stock, and/or something like the Magpul Backpacker (for the 10/22) would be neat. The butt's hollow, so you could stash a bit of stuff in there, but I don't think anything like a stock designed to contain storage (certainly nothing as convenient).

At one point I looked into converting my lil' pardner into a takedown (there's a plastic bit at the back of the forearm; take that off, and when the rifle's open it's just a couple manipulation to take it apart) and carry a chamber insert or two, but that seemed too fiddly.

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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by moab » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:28 am

ROCK6 wrote:Ruger 22/45 LITE, suppressed and with an RDS. This is simply a sublime game-getter and you can pack a pretty decent amount of ammo. I prefer this to my AR conversion kit as it's just simpler and the weight savings is pretty negligible. I can also hunt small game while having the carbine handy for bigger game or self-defensive needs.

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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by derf26 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:33 pm

Thanks for the great discussion guys, lots of food for thought here. I can't say I've made any kind of final decision yet, I think this is going to involve some experimentation at the range, but right now I'm thinking of Glock 19 for self-defense as that's also the CCW I plan on having every day, and a Ruger takedown 10/22 with the Magpul Backpacker stock for hunting small game. Realistically right now I have no experience hunting so the idea of taking down a deer and doing something useful with it seems too much, so until I get more experience, I'm going to plan for squirrels. Plus, there are squirrels all around where I live right now, literally outside the window, whereas I haven't seen a deer anywhere for miles.

Eventually as I get more experience with hunting I might choose to go for a bigger firearm, but for now light weight, cheap ammo, and stashing it away into a bag are the priority.
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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by w3rdtoyamama » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:39 am

Good choices, for sure.

youll only see deer when youre not hunting. But squirrels are everywhere
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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by Zimmy » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:52 pm

My GHB has a Keltec PMR30 and 4 extra 30rd mags. I’ve also got my EDC pistol at all times, but that varies with my whims. I’m an experienced tactical pistol shooter and pistol hunter.

From work I have 10 miles of ghetto and 45 miles of farmland to travel. If it’s worst case, I have to walk. I’m too old and beat up for a heavy load of armaments.

Besides, if I had to abandon my car (AND DALLAS!)on foot things have gone very badly. I’ll welcome a ride from any coming to aid in the disaster. I don’t want to be scary to potential assistance.

Once I’m home that’s it. No need for an INCH or Super BOB.
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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by Stercutus » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:02 pm

Zimmy wrote:My GHB has a Keltec PMR30 and 4 extra 30rd mags. I’ve also got my EDC pistol at all times, but that varies with my whims. I’m an experienced tactical pistol shooter and pistol hunter.

From work I have 10 miles of ghetto and 45 miles of farmland to travel. If it’s worst case, I have to walk. I’m too old and beat up for a heavy load of armaments.

Besides, if I had to abandon my car (AND DALLAS!)on foot things have gone very badly. I’ll welcome a ride from any coming to aid in the disaster. I don’t want to be scary to potential assistance.

Once I’m home that’s it. No need for an INCH or Super BOB.
I always liked the idea of an 80s super gun that never ran out of ammo. Is the Kel-tec living the dream?
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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by Zimmy » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:48 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Zimmy wrote:My GHB has a Keltec PMR30 and 4 extra 30rd mags. I’ve also got my EDC pistol at all times, but that varies with my whims. I’m an experienced tactical pistol shooter and pistol hunter.

From work I have 10 miles of ghetto and 45 miles of farmland to travel. If it’s worst case, I have to walk. I’m too old and beat up for a heavy load of armaments.

Besides, if I had to abandon my car (AND DALLAS!)on foot things have gone very badly. I’ll welcome a ride from any coming to aid in the disaster. I don’t want to be scary to potential assistance.

Once I’m home that’s it. No need for an INCH or Super BOB.
I always liked the idea of an 80s super gun that never ran out of ammo. Is the Kel-tec living the dream?
So far, so good.

There was a lot on the internet about having to break it in with X-amount of ammo before achieving good reliability. There was talk about problems with 30gr vs 40gr.

It has digested 100rds CCI Maxi-mag 40gr FMJ, 50rds CCI Maxi-mag 30gr HP+V, and 150rds Hornady 30gr V-Max without trouble.

The pistol is super light and my big paws fit it well. Recoil is minimal and it stays on target. The trigger is pretty good with moderate travel, no creep, and good reset. I have no trouble repeatedly hitting a 2’X3.5’ steel plate at 100 yds with steady fire. (Been doing that with my Ruger Mk3 forever).

It is loud and may have a fireball at night but I try not to shoot at night anymore after an accord with the farms nearby decades ago.

(Edit to add) Mags are not fun to load and require a lot of mag tapping to seat the rims against the back of the magazine correctly. I’ll buy a mag loader thingy next payday.
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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by Brekar » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:24 pm

Personally for me, bugging out or not I carry my M&P Pro .40 in a Crossbreed Supertuck Deluxe all the time with 2 spare mags, so bugging out I would definitely have it on me.
I recently picked up a Hatfield single shot in 20 gauge. I would stick it in a backpack along with some ammo in a heartbeat. It's a solid shooter, and I can take game with it solidly out to 40 yards.

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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by flybynight » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:08 pm

Brekar wrote:Personally for me, bugging out or not I carry my M&P Pro .40 in a Crossbreed Supertuck Deluxe all the time with 2 spare mags, so bugging out I would definitely have it on me.
I recently picked up a Hatfield single shot in 20 gauge. I would stick it in a backpack along with some ammo in a heartbeat. It's a solid shooter, and I can take game with it solidly out to 40 yards.

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You know I just recently saw a YT video on making those hatfields so they fold flat barrel to stock . There was wood removal of course, but it looked pretty cool and was more compact to stow.
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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by Brekar » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:38 pm

Yeah I watched that video as well, seemed pretty straight forward. I did the trigger lightening from another video I watched, which helped a lot as far as making it a lot lighter trigger pull.

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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by delarey » Fri May 11, 2018 11:52 pm

I've gone back and forth on this issue for many years. Started out with a Sub2k in 9mm to match my Edc Glock. Then tried AK, AR and shotguns...came to the conclusion that I don't want to leave guns in a bag or car, so only going either my Edc now.
If I HAD to keep a long gun of some sort, it would be hard to beat something like the little badger or Savage 24.
If you wanted to keep a long gun in your pack, you are limited to a few options: Sub2k, braced AR in caliber of choice (5.56 sucks in short barrels. Maybe 300blk?), Braced 10-22 charger or maybe a braced 410 Shockwave?
Personally, I wouldn't want to traipse around with a long gun over my shoulder. Rather keep it all concealed.
A G26 or G19 can and have been used for small and medium game. I've shot rabbits, squirrel, porcupine, pigs, Impala and a deer with 9mm. It works, if you do your part. Noise will be your enemy though, so leaning more towards a .22 of some kind for a pack gun.

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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by boskone » Sat May 12, 2018 4:27 pm

I'm kinda thinking of svelting up my AR (the YHM Lightweight handguard isn't so lightweight by today's standards, and I don't need a full quad all the time), putting a LAW folding stock adapter and maybe Dolos QD barrel system, and seeing how it'll fit in a fairly normal pack. Dunno if I ever actually will get around to it, though.

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Re: Ideas on best bug out firearms?

Post by MasterMaker » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:28 am

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016 ... ion-weigh/

With lighter(100-115gr) bullets 9mm and 5.56 weigh the same and you can fit 2 9mm's in the same space as 1 5.56 so unless in a situation where extended ranges are likely without the ability to hide/find cover(plains/desert or similar terrain) it makes much more sense to go with a 9mm pistol with a 22 top and a shoulder stock for it(within any applicable or non-applicable legalities in your ao/situation).

While it may not be recommended or even legal(insert legal disclaimer/things so bad that normal rules no longer apply) larger game can be taken with a 9mm using FMJ if the range is short and the bullet placement is good and with a stock+optic most 9mm pistols are capable of reaching past 100yards.

That said if space/weight allowed it I would choose a 22 cal airgun and/or a bow for any and all hunting needs and pick firearms based on other uses, which would see me pick the above 9mm pistol(preferably with a suppressible .22 top due to paranoia/you never know ammo availability) and if possible also a 5.56 rifle(while not ideal it would also be a lot better for larger game), the rifle wouldn't have to be a semi-auto(pump would be my 2nd choice) but it would be magazine fed with magazines in the 10rnd+ range and aside from that weight/size and GOOD sights would be my primary consideration.

Then again if bugging out by vehicle a single shot with barrels in every cartridge known to man/even remotely likely to be found would also be in that vehicle and my pistol choice would be a Tanfoglio with tops in every available caliber(9mm/10mm/.357/.40/.45+.22).
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