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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:11 pm 
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derf26 wrote:

Functions:
1. Self-defense.
2. Hunting small game.
3. Hunting large game.

Constraints:
1. Size.
2. Weight.
3. Concealability (optional but might be a good idea).

22LR ammo is very light and small, so it satisfies all of the constraints, but it's only really good for hunting small game. Even though it could be used for self-defense in a pinch, the reliability of rimfire is so poor I'd rather not. A 22 takedown rifle would be much better for accuracy than a pistol, especially beyond 20 yards, but since the rifle is also going to be fairly inaccurate past 100 yards, and can't effectively harvest large game or be used for self-defense, is it better to go with a 22 pistol for small game and a bigger rifle for larger game and self-defense?

Or would you just stick to a semi-auto pistol in a common caliber like 9mm for self-defense?



Derf26: what do you mean by poor reliability of rimfire? Failure to go "bang" or to hit and kill a human within rimfire ranges?

For myself I don't want a gunfight and would prefer to slip by unnoticed, especially when solo.

I don't expect to be taken on by bad guys who are good shots at 600+ yards so no need for counter-sniper fire. More likely is the chance of being robbed at gunpoint so a pistol would be good.

For short forays I'd go with a 9mm pistol. Longer forays outside of cities a takedown .22 might be more practical.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:42 pm 
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Just my experience:

Rimfires fail to go Bang at a rate of .5% to 10%, depending on age, storage condition, quality, and firearm used.

My failure rates with factory center fire is about .004%. Handloads have had more problems than that.

Just my experience so far.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:10 pm 
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Asymetryczna wrote:
Whoa. I was just bugging out. Maybe I'll camp for awhile. None of those counter-sniper missions, breaking contact by suppressive fire or low vis, suppressed and silent taking out of the sentries for me. It's ironic how topics about survival are turned to combat so quickly. I don't even know if there is an enemy or who they are

Welp, if you do any hunting whilst camping, you may be able to use your suppressor(s). :awesome:




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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:08 pm 
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woodsghost wrote:
Just my experience:

Rimfires fail to go Bang at a rate of .5% to 10%, depending on age, storage condition, quality, and firearm used.

My failure rates with factory center fire is about .004%. Handloads have had more problems than that.

Just my experience so far.



I run four rimfire rifles and the few rounds that I can recall that did not fire I chalked up to the semi-auto weapon needing a good cleaning. (?) In my inventory are the following brands of ammo:

Federal, Remington, CCI, Armscor, Winchester, and Browning. I've not fired any of the Winchester or Browning as they are the odd lots set aside for a comparison run some day. Thousands of rounds of the first four brands have been fired without noticeable issues. I think the bolt action never had FTFs but one semi-auto did. Maybe my FTFs are in less than the 0.5% range? It could be the price range and quality level are factors; basically the cheap RemThunderbolt is not as reliable as the CCI MiniMags?

For instance I've never had an issue with the CCI Mini Mag plated 36 grain but I think the cheap Rem Thunderbolts might have been the ones that FTF'ed. When on camping trips I usually loan out a semi-auto with a box of cheap ammo for getting newbies into the sport.

Other than differences in accuracy I've not had enough FTFs to really count. All of my ammo is stored in metal military .50 cal boxes and kept in cool temps.

I think the poorest quality centerfire ammo I ever had was cheap Norinco .223. One time I found a primer that had blown out and it was stuck in the trigger assembly of the rifle! Lots of failures to fire on that stuff too.

Good topic. I'm going to pay a lot more attention to the rimfire ammo. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:04 am 
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Rick, good point. Legal here, I have tried to suppress nearly everything except the older stuff and the shotguns. The two deer taken with a compound bow last month would count as well in my book. Just no counter sniper missions or anti-assassin wet-work here in this state.

With regard to hangfires, misfires, or squibs, there are a few steps you can take even if you do not maintain a gun book with the respective firearm. If I cannot determine the reason for the malfunction I report it. Be sure to make note of the cartridge and lot, the firearm used and the conditions. Did you safely unload and examine the cartridge, and attempt to re-fire? How many cartridges did you have a problem with, etc.? At the very least I would post the results online, including with the manufacturer and vendor, as well as a forum associated with the cartridges, Rimfire Central for example. In the early 90s, I began to see a lot of misfires with a certain cartridge -every day- so I contacted nearly everyone that used it and asked them to fill out a report for every failure and submit it to me. Once I had the evidence in hand I pursued a fix which included finding an advocate and the funding necessary for a fix. It took some time, but as a result the M118LR was introduced and the problem went away.

Well, I have to bug out to my neighbors farm for the rest of the morning. Carrying a M1 Garand and a Springfield 1911.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:12 am 
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Asymetryczna wrote:
Well, I have to bug out to my neighbors farm for the rest of the morning. Carrying a M1 Garand and a Springfield 1911.


Be sure to watch out for the North Korean infiltrators posing as farmers! J/K

Good advice on the systematic tracking of ammo failures.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:37 am 
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Thanks. To be real clear, I am a tergiversator on this topic, given unknown METT-TSL.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:47 pm 
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I was at the gun store playing with their single shots, and they had one of those Rossi Tuffy .410 shotguns. Brand new they wanted like $150 or something. Maybe less, probably less.

Plus... it weighs 3 pounds. Yes, 3 pounds, and was the size of a toy. OAL is 29" or there-a-bouts.

I know a couple years ago, all the internet youtube experts swore that little singles were the bug-out-bees-knees, and that has all but been dismissed by other internet youtube experts...
...but for a cheap light and reliable backpack firearms, a little .410 can solve a lot of problems even if a compromise in others.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:55 pm 
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The more I think about this thread the more I admire the original post.
First, there is the idea that this question has never been posted here before.
Second, without proper context it is difficult to answer to my level of satisfaction.
Third, one could answer practically every day and change their minds each time, a little.
Fourth, it reminded me that I don’t really have 1 standard answer; thus, it is best to have options.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Asymetryczna wrote:
The more I think about this thread the more I admire the original post.
First, there is the idea that this question has never been posted here before.
Second, without proper context it is difficult to answer to my level of satisfaction.
Third, one could answer practically every day and change their minds each time, a little.
Fourth, it reminded me that I don’t really have 1 standard answer; thus, it is best to have options.


I think it was more of an open ended discussion than a question-answer thing. Like, "what's the meaning of life?" as opposed to "what's the square root of pi?".

I love guns, so it gives me a reason to think about guns in various scenarios:
Same as "What's the best hunting rifle"... things to consider: mountain? swamp? brush? plains? Africa? squirrels?
Or "What's the best HD weapon?"... things to consider: budget? apartment? house? local laws? gun experience? family scenario?

I deleted my other social media platforms so this is how I pass time when I'm scrolling the net when I'm supposed to be working. I like posts like this... considering your third point as I've changed my opinion everyday on here.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:57 pm 
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It's these kind of discussions , reading others peoples thoughts and ideas that shape and change my own ideas on how I should prep.
This discussion in particular caused me to consider possible scenarios and how they would relate to myself. I have a serious disconnect on the idea of actually bugging out. I've stated before , my bugout bag is actually a GHB. So I read BOB and think GHB. Gunwriter ( since he is located so near to me with the same type of topography ) caused me to reconsider my choice of truck long arm ( still from a GHB point of view). Which then had me pondering what possible scenario I could be facing ( and still survive ) that I needed a ultra accurate AR. Which sent me into a search for a possible folding stock option for said long arm ( shotgun) in truck, since short of total war, my best bet would be to be as grey man as possible with the long arm being as unobtrusive as possible . Still questioning the worthiness of a shotgun I shopped various carbines that could be SBR'd . Which then led me to a page of a company that is about to launch a bullpup stock for high point carbines. HMMM. And finally I arrived at the original question. What would it take to cause me to bug out ( INCH style) and what would I take. My conclusion was total breakdown of civilization and I would take a accurate, sturdy bolt action and my most dependable semi auto pistol . ( or a Hawken rifle and cap and ball revolver.... so far) Since my only chance of survival is to go all Indian and just not be seen or heard and definitely not get into any firefight caused by overconfidence in my choice of rapid fire weapon.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:05 am 
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A bit late, maybe, but I've been considering a Savage 42. It's not going to be great for bear defense or whatnot (if a concern), but it's reasonably lightweight (6lbs), and being able to use shot or slugs from the .410 could be useful (harvesting birds or deer, respectively, at short ranges), and you can take a lot of meat in the form of rabbits or squirrels with the .22.

It can be configured with .22lr or wmr; I'd probably lean towards the lr since there's a .410 involved.

A lighter stock, and/or something like the Magpul Backpacker (for the 10/22) would be neat. The butt's hollow, so you could stash a bit of stuff in there, but I don't think anything like a stock designed to contain storage (certainly nothing as convenient).

At one point I looked into converting my lil' pardner into a takedown (there's a plastic bit at the back of the forearm; take that off, and when the rifle's open it's just a couple manipulation to take it apart) and carry a chamber insert or two, but that seemed too fiddly.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:28 am 
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ROCK6 wrote:
Ruger 22/45 LITE, suppressed and with an RDS. This is simply a sublime game-getter and you can pack a pretty decent amount of ammo. I prefer this to my AR conversion kit as it's just simpler and the weight savings is pretty negligible. I can also hunt small game while having the carbine handy for bigger game or self-defensive needs.

ROCK6


I want. Very cool.

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