Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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majorhavoc
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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by majorhavoc » Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:02 pm

woodsghost wrote: I know it is possible to haul 90 lbs in a ruck style (no waist support). I have a friend who has done so for years, hauling mortar pieces and mortar ammunition. He is also 210-220 lbs.

I know I can do anything if I start slow and work up to it.
Yes, it's possible to haul 90lbs of gear completely on your shoulders, but it's a miserable exercise and IMHO, pointless. Not when there are all manner of quality, durable internal frame packs out there that transfer a good portion of that load to where God intended you to bear weight, which is on your pelvis. From prior threads you may know that my wheelhouse is civvie gear, but understand there are mil-spec alternatives to the Gregory, Mountainsmith and Lowe packs I'm familiar with.

Consider also that while you may be able to get from point A to B carrying that kind of weight strictly on your shoulders, you could be so distracted with discomfort (read: pain) and debilitated upon arrival that you may well compromise your effectiveness and situational awareness.

Circling back to my original point: is the rucksack option possible? Yes. Is it necessary? Absolutely not.

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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by woodsghost » Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:10 pm

majorhavoc wrote: Circling back to my original point: is the rucksack option possible? Yes. Is it necessary? Absolutely not.
I"m right with you, in case it was not clear. I"ve also been trying to run around with just the shoulder straps over the last 4 months, with different weights. Right now I just don't see how that is possible without destroying one's self. At least at certain weights. I think I could do it all day, ever day if I only had 15 lbs.

Also, I just realized I think I put this in the wrong old thread of mine :ooh: :clownshoes:

Thanks again for your input!!!
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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by moab » Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:24 pm

woodsghost wrote:Just following up. Been using both my ILBE and ALICE in a serious fashion for ~4 months.

Hiked 3.2 miles today. ~37 lbs on my pack in an ALICE pack.

Hiked 5-5.5 miles 2 days ago, with ~58 lbs, in my ILBE.

Speed was not astounding. Getting back into shape. About 2.5-3 mph.

I have to say I LOVE the ALICE!!!! If I am using the waist belt. Put that between my ribs and hip bone, and let it ride there. The frame clears my shoulders initially and the straps ride like there are load lifters. With time, they do settle down on my shoulders, but the vast majority of the weight sits on my hips. I really think I have a bit shorter torso, so that likely has an effect. Or maybe just slightly on the smaller side of "medium?"

The ILBE has been a learning experience. I did not know what was going on with that pack. Had to get the Small waist belt. The Medium gets buckled so tight the wing tips kiss. Especially on hot days when I sweat out any and all weight I posses. But I have to say: If I"m carrying 60 lbs, I'd rather carry it in the ILBE than the ALICE. But after reading up on backpacking sites I just can't quite seem to get the ILBE shoulder straps right. They seem to ride very heavy on me, no matter where I adjust them. My only solution seems to be to set that waist belt tight and high, and ignore the shoulder pain. It is not unbearable, just constant and noticeable.

It is possible I just need more time with the ILBE to develop a tolerance.

I can't imagine hiking 20+ miles a day with 60 lbs on my back and no waist belt support. I can see why that results in injuries. I can also see why one might run without the waist support if danger were close. It does slow me down.

Will continue to update as I gain experience with these packs.

Also getting a upper body strength routine in, so I will see if that affects anything.
I think you should start by seeking professional advice. Find an REI or better outdoor store if you have too. I wish I could recommend another outfitter besides REI. But I know they have their shit together when it comes to the guy they staff in the backpack department. He's an avid and even sometimes professional backpacker. If you've gotta drive an hour or more to find an REI. Do it. It's worth every penny.

Have them fit you for a pack. It's just like getting fitted for a suit. You don't get out the measuring tape and start figuring it out yourself. You get a professional to do it. Who has the knowledge and experience to adjust a pack to "your" torso. Every one of us is different physically. Take your packs with you. Ask advice. Try on a commercial pack they recommend after measuring you. You'll be surprised at how much you learn. And how much easier backpacking will become. Hell neither of those packs may be right for you.

And frankly if the hip belt is riding between your ribs and your hip bones it's not riding right. Your not taking full advantage of the backpack system as it was intended. The hip belt should ride on your hips and the top of your ass. *The bottom of the belt should rest at the top of your ass while wrapped around your hips.* If that makes sense. And the shoulder straps are just there to keep it upright. Or at least most of the load should be on your pelvis and the rest on your shoulders. But very little on your shoulders. Having it ride between your ribs and your hips is putting all the weight on your shoulders. Which would wear anyone out.

And if you think you need to start an "upper body strength routine". Something is wrong. Very wrong. With how your wearing your gear. Your gear should work for you. Not the other way around.

And take it from an old Marine. Who would love nothing more than to have all the cool military shit work out for me. Sadly it rarely does. Cook tins come to mind. They make pretty good cook tins. lol. But seriously, the packs and shoes and even jackets and pants - are made with the "average" male in mind. And yes, probably 50% or better are the "average" man that fits a military pack to a "T". Sadly the rest of us 40 or 50% er's it doesn't. It just gosh darn doesn't. And they are CHEAP too! And RUGGED! Damn it. The perfect combination that you want. But what you really need is something that fits you. And you and me brother don't sound like "average" dudes. ;)
Last edited by moab on Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by Dragon80 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:25 pm

I will say, I've had several of the packs named here including both you currently have and once i wore a Kifaru, there was never a chance I'd have anything less. I'm not sure how much of an issue money is, but if you can ever afford it, do it!! If you get on Kifaru forums and Rokslide you can find a Duplex Timberline 1 or 2 for $300-400 and do everything you need and lighter weight and far more comfortable than either pack. Go a step further with a duplex frame and any of their packs and be 5lbs or less with more capability. I'm 6'3 " 170lbs and have done 90lbs in shitty terrain over about 45 miles in 3 days and ended up with sore trap muscles. I loved surplus kit but I've moved away from it one piece at a time and reduced my weight to FAR less base weight and FAR greater comfort and capability. I had a 9lb pack, 8lb sleeping bag, 5lb tent/3lb bivy and now I'm at sub 5lb pack, 2lb sleeping bag, 2lb tent/1.5 lb bivy and a choice of several pads. Saving 13lbs or more there took me from a 60lb pack to 47 for winter. That's not sacrificing anything comfort wise. I could whittle that way further down if I needed to go very fast. Weight costs!!

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viewtopic.php?f=14&t=114606

GHB dedicated thread in need of serious updating!!!
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=112108

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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by woodsghost » Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:34 am

Nearest REI is 138 miles away. But as it happens, exactly on the route to my parents, in Des Moines. I do have a Scheels within 3 miles.

Upper body workout is mostly for my wife and for health reasons. Also, my brother is getting married soon, and I want to fill out a tux properly. Plus there is a bit of a competition among the groomsmen party. :wink:

Kifaru? Never hear of them.





:clap: Just kidding. I do want something better. Will get it as soon as I can afford it. Which is going to be a few years.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by moab » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:04 am

Dragon80 wrote:I will say, I've had several of the packs named here including both you currently have and once i wore a Kifaru, there was never a chance I'd have anything less. I'm not sure how much of an issue money is, but if you can ever afford it, do it!! If you get on Kifaru forums and Rokslide you can find a Duplex Timberline 1 or 2 for $300-400 and do everything you need and lighter weight and far more comfortable than either pack. Go a step further with a duplex frame and any of their packs and be 5lbs or less with more capability. I'm 6'3 " 170lbs and have done 90lbs in shitty terrain over about 45 miles in 3 days and ended up with sore trap muscles. I loved surplus kit but I've moved away from it one piece at a time and reduced my weight to FAR less base weight and FAR greater comfort and capability. I had a 9lb pack, 8lb sleeping bag, 5lb tent/3lb bivy and now I'm at sub 5lb pack, 2lb sleeping bag, 2lb tent/1.5 lb bivy and a choice of several pads. Saving 13lbs or more there took me from a 60lb pack to 47 for winter. That's not sacrificing anything comfort wise. I could whittle that way further down if I needed to go very fast. Weight costs!!

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
I think the big point though is that "weight costs". If you had to add up how much every item in your pack costs to save that 13lbs it would be a very unlikely sum for a lot of people. Especially the vast majority that work paycheck to paycheck. And it's to bad. Cause even if you add up the cost of a complete military kit it's damn expensive.

But I think if we're just talking a pack. You could probably take the money he spent on those two packs and get a nice Gregory in the capacity he is looking for. It's not unheard of to find last years 65 to even 100L name brand backpack for $150. And he probably spent at least that much on the two military packs.

The point being he could be in a pack that actually comes sized (Large, Medium, Small etc. etc.) - in his size - adjusted to his size - for about the same price as he's into the two military packs.
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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by RonnyRonin » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:36 am

woodsghost wrote: Upper body workout is mostly for my wife and for health reasons. Also, my brother is getting married soon, and I want to fill out a tux properly. Plus there is a bit of a competition among the groomsmen party. :wink:
All good reasons, and I wouldn't be quick to discount the pack advantages either. In UL backpacking circles I've heard it theorized more then once that climbers tend to have an higher tolerance for frameless/beltless packs due to better developed shoulder muscles. I for one know that I have one of the lowest tolerances I've met, even tiny amounts of weight carried shoulder loaded only can wear me out and I'm pretty lacking up top. Even the best pack with the best hipbelt can cause some issue that may require you to undo your belt for a period so having as much shoulder tolerance to fall back on as possible can only be a good thing.

Now that I'm feeling guilty I need to go work out...
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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by moab » Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:30 pm

woodsghost wrote:Nearest REI is 138 miles away. But as it happens, exactly on the route to my parents, in Des Moines. I do have a Scheels within 3 miles.

Upper body workout is mostly for my wife and for health reasons. Also, my brother is getting married soon, and I want to fill out a tux properly. Plus there is a bit of a competition among the groomsmen party. :wink:

Kifaru? Never hear of them.





:clap: Just kidding. I do want something better. Will get it as soon as I can afford it. Which is going to be a few years.
Go visit your parents. Get fitted at the same time. Sell the military packs. And buy one that is fitted for your size. You sound like you need a large (read long) pack that will adjust with a smaller belt. But get yourself fitted. It will change everything your doing. And make backpacking an enjoyable experience. Far beyond what your feeling now.

Good luck to you. I hope you find a pack that fits. As into as you are, you deserve a well fitted pack. And it doesn't have to be a $400 Kifaru. The percentage of hikers using Kifaru's is far less than those using a normal commercial fitted backpack.
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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by Dragon80 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:47 pm

moab wrote:
Dragon80 wrote:I will say, I've had several of the packs named here including both you currently have and once i wore a Kifaru, there was never a chance I'd have anything less. I'm not sure how much of an issue money is, but if you can ever afford it, do it!! If you get on Kifaru forums and Rokslide you can find a Duplex Timberline 1 or 2 for $300-400 and do everything you need and lighter weight and far more comfortable than either pack. Go a step further with a duplex frame and any of their packs and be 5lbs or less with more capability. I'm 6'3 " 170lbs and have done 90lbs in shitty terrain over about 45 miles in 3 days and ended up with sore trap muscles. I loved surplus kit but I've moved away from it one piece at a time and reduced my weight to FAR less base weight and FAR greater comfort and capability. I had a 9lb pack, 8lb sleeping bag, 5lb tent/3lb bivy and now I'm at sub 5lb pack, 2lb sleeping bag, 2lb tent/1.5 lb bivy and a choice of several pads. Saving 13lbs or more there took me from a 60lb pack to 47 for winter. That's not sacrificing anything comfort wise. I could whittle that way further down if I needed to go very fast. Weight costs!!

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
I think the big point though is that "weight costs". If you had to add up how much every item in your pack costs to save that 13lbs it would be a very unlikely sum for a lot of people. Especially the vast majority that work paycheck to paycheck. And it's to bad. Cause even if you add up the cost of a complete military kit it's damn expensive.

But I think if we're just talking a pack. You could probably take the money he spent on those two packs and get a nice Gregory in the capacity he is looking for. It's not unheard of to find last years 65 to even 100L name brand backpack for $150. And he probably spent at least that much on the two military packs.

The point being he could be in a pack that actually comes sized (Large, Medium, Small etc. etc.) - in his size - adjusted to his size - for about the same price as he's into the two military packs.

Considering what people will spend on decent condition surplus gear, the upgrade can be had for much cheaper than most would believe. Campsaver's Shed got me a nearly brand new Exped for $88 and I regularly see similar deals. A 20 degree Enlightened Equipment Prodigy is $185 brand new and WAY better than the $100-150 line of standard crap and weighs 30 ounces and i recently saw a like new used Enigma from EE for $200 which is down fill and 18 ounces. I've seen most MSS in crap condition go for $70-$120.

So yes, it costs more, but not as much as people think to get really good quality gear now due to there being so many manufacturers including cottages with great prices. If it were outside of a person's means, they wouldn't be looking for advice to upgrade or how to fix comfort issues, people will find a way if they really feel they need something.
BOB also used for backpacking
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=114606

GHB dedicated thread in need of serious updating!!!
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=112108

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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by moab » Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:00 pm

Dragon80 wrote:
moab wrote:
Dragon80 wrote:I will say, I've had several of the packs named here including both you currently have and once i wore a Kifaru, there was never a chance I'd have anything less. I'm not sure how much of an issue money is, but if you can ever afford it, do it!! If you get on Kifaru forums and Rokslide you can find a Duplex Timberline 1 or 2 for $300-400 and do everything you need and lighter weight and far more comfortable than either pack. Go a step further with a duplex frame and any of their packs and be 5lbs or less with more capability. I'm 6'3 " 170lbs and have done 90lbs in shitty terrain over about 45 miles in 3 days and ended up with sore trap muscles. I loved surplus kit but I've moved away from it one piece at a time and reduced my weight to FAR less base weight and FAR greater comfort and capability. I had a 9lb pack, 8lb sleeping bag, 5lb tent/3lb bivy and now I'm at sub 5lb pack, 2lb sleeping bag, 2lb tent/1.5 lb bivy and a choice of several pads. Saving 13lbs or more there took me from a 60lb pack to 47 for winter. That's not sacrificing anything comfort wise. I could whittle that way further down if I needed to go very fast. Weight costs!!

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
I think the big point though is that "weight costs". If you had to add up how much every item in your pack costs to save that 13lbs it would be a very unlikely sum for a lot of people. Especially the vast majority that work paycheck to paycheck. And it's to bad. Cause even if you add up the cost of a complete military kit it's damn expensive.

But I think if we're just talking a pack. You could probably take the money he spent on those two packs and get a nice Gregory in the capacity he is looking for. It's not unheard of to find last years 65 to even 100L name brand backpack for $150. And he probably spent at least that much on the two military packs.

The point being he could be in a pack that actually comes sized (Large, Medium, Small etc. etc.) - in his size - adjusted to his size - for about the same price as he's into the two military packs.

Considering what people will spend on decent condition surplus gear, the upgrade can be had for much cheaper than most would believe. Campsaver's Shed got me a nearly brand new Exped for $88 and I regularly see similar deals. A 20 degree Enlightened Equipment Prodigy is $185 brand new and WAY better than the $100-150 line of standard crap and weighs 30 ounces and i recently saw a like new used Enigma from EE for $200 which is down fill and 18 ounces. I've seen most MSS in crap condition go for $70-$120.

So yes, it costs more, but not as much as people think to get really good quality gear now due to there being so many manufacturers including cottages with great prices. If it were outside of a person's means, they wouldn't be looking for advice to upgrade or how to fix comfort issues, people will find a way if they really feel they need something.
I'm kind of agreeing with you here. I just don't think the guy needs a $300-$400 Kifaru to make himself a comfortable pack. Like you say, if you look hard enough you can find deals on good commercial equipment that far outdoes their military counterparts. And like I say above, I agree that most commercial out performs military gear.

I hear what your saying too. It's like trying to convince guys that their 10lb $200+ Wiggy's isn't all that. As it's well ten pounds. And not any warmer than the equivalent bag in say dry down. While the down bag will weigh half that. Or all the guys that swear by their MSS that is in about the exact same situation. But I have to admit my first back after I got back into backpacking was an MSS. As that was all I thought I could afford. And having been in the military you have this hard feeling like anything military is tried and true. It's not until you start doing your research and using the stuff you realize you've been taken in by your own emotions. lol.
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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by Asymetryczna » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:18 pm

Backpack-pack-rucksack-ruck-haversack-patrol pack, etc. All synonyms. Pick one.
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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by ROCK6 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:35 pm

Asymetryczna wrote:Backpack-pack-rucksack-ruck-haversack-patrol pack, etc. All synonyms. Pick one.
For many the "rucksack" often means our old military pack that we run without the waist belt. Yes, I "grew up" with the same philosophy in my younger enlisted days and then onto ROTC in college where we did competitions with 10K ruck runs; I've done more than my fair share. The concept is supposedly for dumping your pack quickly and I understand that, but even 20+years later, I still think that mentality is simply stupid. Even my son did his Infantry Basic Training this past summer and guess what? New (ish) MOLLE packs and for all their road marches, they could use their pu$$y waist belts. There is a point where "hard" becomes "ignorantly stupid" and this is it.

I've also done my share of distance backpacking; my goal these days is light and mobile. Sure, I have a massive 7000+ cubic inch Kifaru EMR with enough add on pockets and the suspension to support 130-140 pounds...which I've done, but would rather use the pack for cover and engage before running off any significant distance with that kind of weight. Waist belts are critical if you truly want to carry heavy weight over long distances. The "rucksack" method will wear you down faster and I don't care what kind of shape you're in, it's not good for your body...it's stupid.

I've done well over a hundred battle drills reacting to incoming artillery, reacting to an ambush or even hasty contact drills. Yes, we practiced "dropping" your ruck to either engage or break contact...over, and over, and over. If you're planning on just combat drills, sure (I still think it's stupid), but for an INCH or Bug Out type of pack, get a quality pack with a frame and suspension to handle your required pack weight/capacity...make sure it fits you properly! With all the weight on your shoulders, lack of balanced contact points and most likely not well secured, a shoulder-only rucksack is more likely to cause you mechanical injury rather than the often discussed "enemy" threats.

Where the rucksack carry method kills you is the pain and burden on your shoulders, neck and back...I could never imagine doing that every day for a week or so. Proper pack suspension is there for a reason and that includes a properly fitted frame and waist belt that is designed to take more of the weight off your back, shoulders and arms.

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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:43 pm

I use the medium ALICE pack with frame and cargo shelf, the sleeping bag carrier under the pack, on the shelf. At 6' 2", and a long-ish frame, the belt of it rides just underneath my ribs, which is completely useless for weight support. As a "fix", I keep the suspenders/pistol belt/buttpack arrangement on whenever using the pack, and the pack then rides on the buttpack, putting the weight bearing onto my hips via the pistol belt, where it belongs. Because of a life of constant abuse on my back finally catching up with me, I have a strict 35# weight limit for the pack, and figure on 10 miles a day while wearing it. The pistol belt comes in around 20 pounds. Your original post talks about going twice as far, with twice as much weight, at nearly half my weight. Experience tells me you are courting disaster with your original set up. Experience, like my own mock bug-out that was less than 10 miles, and mostly along roads, with the above loadout, and it resulted in a knee injury that I decided was not worth further injury, so I cut the trip short.

I like the ALICE system- I trained with it, I've used it in the army and civilian life for over thirty years, and I STILL occasionally find some new add-on piece I've never seen or heard of before. Military equipment is built tough, enough so to fight a war with, literally. However, that sometimes detracts from it's applicability, instead of enhancing it. Don't get so attached to one form of equipment that you blind yourself to the advantages of changing to something else.

You mentioned Des Moines, so I'm going to assume your AO is similar to my own, in upstate NY. More hills than mountains, probably. That's easier than walking than here, but still tough to push 20 miles/day. Why make it harder on yourself than it needs to be?
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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by Asymetryczna » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:39 pm

My issue is the discussion itself. Any of you, tough enough to link up after a radiation frost, not seeing another human being in two weeks and carrying a dozen fresh eggs and some beans in chili sauce, we’re going to talk about pack experiences. I will believe you but probably want to keep my own. Who cares, right? What is the real question? I'm carrying an old potato sack with whatever I can carry to keep me alive, yes?

Good question. Be specific.
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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by ROCK6 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:16 am

Asymetryczna wrote:My issue is the discussion itself. Any of you, tough enough to link up after a radiation frost, not seeing another human being in two weeks and carrying a dozen fresh eggs and some beans in chili sauce, we’re going to talk about pack experiences. I will believe you but probably want to keep my own. Who cares, right? What is the real question? I'm carrying an old potato sack with whatever I can carry to keep me alive, yes?

Good question. Be specific.
I would doubt anyone on these boards have ever bugged out under extreme or stressful conditions. There were a few good examples (of what not to do) with Katrina, but posters throw out scenarios that are quite hypothetical or clearly unrealistic. Not many here have lived through an apocalypse; however, I would put more stock into someone who actually backpacks, hunts on foot at elevation, does backcountry rescue or firefights or even does extreme sports and competitions. We can replicate combat pretty good but replicating the conditions of the ubiquitous, worse-case scenario bug out on foot for hundreds of miles living out of a pack on your back, dodging rabid dog packs and armed zombie-biker gangs while traversing rugged terrain in single digit temperatures and avoiding thermal detections from post-apocalyptic black-booted thugs all makes for a good fiction story, but ridiculous to use as a scenario to criticize or plan from.

Experiences are important, but are quite relative to the individual. Hunting out West in more open areas is vastly different than what I've found hunting here in the Southeast. My three combat tours are vastly different from others and different from other theaters of operations. My distance backpacking experiences are different from others and highly dependent on season and location. Specificity is quite important when defining the requirements and really requires an honest risk assessment to the most likely threat scenarios relative to the individual's location and considering the terrain, population, major obstacles, seasons, resources, and even their own personal physical conditioning.

What was the question? :mrgreen:

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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by woodsghost » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:20 am

Great points!!!!!

I believe I have made clear my personal plans are changing, though I still want to work up to that 20 miles a day. I don't think it is out of reach. But packs and weights have changed some in my life now because of this thread.

Asymetryczna wrote:My issue is the discussion itself. Any of you, tough enough to link up after a radiation frost, not seeing another human being in two weeks and carrying a dozen fresh eggs and some beans in chili sauce, we’re going to talk about pack experiences. I will believe you but probably want to keep my own. Who cares, right? What is the real question? I'm carrying an old potato sack with whatever I can carry to keep me alive, yes?

Good question. Be specific.
I appreciate ROCk6's response, and I appreciate the points you have made. I believe gear is important, but as you say, it is only important up to a point. After that, the human is much more important, and we can find stuff to suffice.



For the sake of discussion, I found this site and group:

https://www.goruck.com/

Packs, gear, and events. All about carrying weight completely on your shoulders. Though they suggest a weight of 20 lbs on the back if you are under 150 lbs, and 30 lbs if you are over 150 lbs.

The guy who made all this is former SF and presumably knows what he is doing and talking about? Moreso than myself? Just interesting to stumble upon this group and set of gear in light of the advice given in this thread.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by RonnyRonin » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:58 am

while I appreciate the community that GoRuck has built, I hate them. They have spread a lot of dubious information in the name of marketing, and in my mind is just another veteran tooting the "I was SF, listen to me!" horn.

While I will often tout simplicity as the goal of good design, not including a sternum strap or compression straps on a high-dollar pack is just bad form. They go on and on about how tough their packs are but the whole load is dependent on a relatively weak unprotected zipper to keep it from spilling on the ground. They have convinced their customer base that there is something magical about them when in fact they are just stripped down, overpriced 3-day pack copies. They are not using any materials or techniques that any other American pack maker (Kifaur, HPG, Mystery Ranch) isn't, but they offer fewer features at a higher price.

[/rant]

But yeah, I think GoRuck is just a group of very social masochists, and the shoulder only thing is just one more form of self-flagellation
share your tobacco and your kindling, but never your sauna or your woman.

AK, Glock, Pie.

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Asymetryczna
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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by Asymetryczna » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:12 am

You spend years living out of a pack and completely relocating by throwing everything you own into 1 car. Then you get married and find your one bedroom apartment seems kind of empty. Before you know it, you have a pack of heathens training to attend the most expensive schools and the one car will not even fit into the 2-car garage of your home because of all the stuff you have accumulated. The idea of walking away, the road less travelled, living deliberately and all can seem appealing. With no zombie apocalypse of major weather upheaval, one can still venture away long enough to find silence and clear their head. Sometimes I go just so that I can remember how much I love my home. A squirrel cleaned and wrapped in some foil and left in the coals of your fire at the end of the 2d day tastes delicious. Right after you have spent $17 on items from the Wendy’s dollar menu – not so much.

This is why this topic will always be around in some form or fashion. Someday, your grandson will get the urge to go on a long walk and do some online research. He’ll find your research and thoughts in this thread. “Lookie here, kids. Great Grandpop Woodsghost decided that he needed at least 3 different kinds of packs. It says here that he paid $500 for one of them, and traded a pocket knife for another…”

Your timing is spot on as well in that the topics of walking, distance, weight carried, etc., are being discussed in many places these days. Here is a good read to get you started: https://www.amazon.com/Soldiers-Load-Mo ... 0686310012

It is kind of difficult to say that anyone has ever got it right because every single person is different in their preferences and peculiarities. And, you can find on the one hand people who want anything that is different than everybody else, and they go to places where yet others tell them they must conform “…in the high school halls, in the shopping malls…* ”

This is good reading for someone just starting to consider distance; the idea of walking the ground first –before you yomp it– appeals to me. It also reminds me of short-legged men who turtle up at the back of a formation…twice as many steps to feed the accordion and all that… http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/10/30/we ... athon.html

There is this current debate as well:
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/articl ... lonel-says

BTDT

*(Bonus point for those that picked up on the heavy Rush vibe.)
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by teotwaki » Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:15 pm

Don't forget that as you age you just cannot carry as much so you are relentlessly herded towards carrying less weight and accepting less comfort.
My adventures and pictures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com

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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by zombieslayer001 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:42 pm

What does INCH mean?

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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by Asymetryczna » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:01 pm

zombieslayer001 wrote:What does INCH mean?
Yes. What does HOME mean?
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by woodsghost » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:11 pm

zombieslayer001 wrote:What does INCH mean?

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It means "I'm Never Coming Home." Typically it means "my living off the land and heading to the woods" bag. A lot of these terms can be found by googleing them. That is how I learned about most of this stuff. If you google "INCH bag" you will come up with some good stuff and a lot of crazy people. I"m trying to get past the crazy people, so I come hang out here on ZS :)



Somehow I never thought I would put those words together in a sentence...... :clownshoes:
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by teotwaki » Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:16 pm

woodsghost wrote:I"m trying to get past the crazy people, so I come hang out here on ZS :)
Great discussion! Exactly why I'm addicted to ZS
My adventures and pictures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com

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Asymetryczna
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Re: Help me: Bugging out: Rucksack or pack?

Post by Asymetryczna » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:15 am

Agreed. Once people get the idea that their choices and preferences are different than someone else's things tend to smooth out.
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

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