Dragon's GHB Updated 4/18/15

Dragon80 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:35 pm

UPDATE!!! 4/18/15 Totally new approach here for this bag, as it's no longer a BOB and fully dedicated to GHB.

Goals: To get home from the regular places that I go on a daily basis, and have no items that would need to be robbed for other kits or other projects. My normal travel is no more than 50 miles from home and my work commute is about 26 miles each way. This pack setup is designed to get my home from that in a pretty shitty situation. This isn't built to be rescued, get anyone's attention, or any other purpose other than getting me home! I work third shift and long hours, so ideally my travel would be at night or as quickly as possible.

I thought I would include that I'm not really a follower of the "Grey Man" approach in my gear choices or mindset. I am of the belief that if I am using this bag, things will soon be bad enough that it doesn't matter what you're carrying, wearing, or who you are, that you're on someone's radar if you're seen. So as I said, I'm going to be moving when and where no one else will probably want to. Interestingly enough, my planned routes home are far easier to walk than the most direct route (highway) and will see far less people with no major cities and only two small towns in between. Now on to the gear!!!

Pack:
Kifaru X-Ray with 2 Kifaru 500d Light Long Pockets
Pockets are empty, would be used for other items I may have in the car or from my work lunch.

Top Pocket:
Fire Kit
PSK detailed in next pics.
Princeton Tec Fred headlamp (Best cover headlamp on the market for the price IMO, look it up.)
Carmex - I use it a lot, plus fire starter.
2 x 20ft paracord hanks

Personal Survival Kit (Still in the works, I don't like it as it sits.)

PSK Detailed:
Compass
Chemlight
10ft paracord hank
Sharpie
20ft x 1in. Gorilla Tape
Schrade folder (Might be replacing with CRKT Mini My Tighe)
Fenix PD20 + 2 spare batteries (Batteries missing.........)
Sawyer Mini + Straw
Light My Fire
15rds FMJ of some sort (Needs replaced with defensive loads)
Smalls kit - single razor blade, P38, tweezers, a few other items.
Pouch - 20DollarBandit MiniKit MK-7

Batteries/Power: Some of this may be ditched in particular circumstances.
Eneloop Batteries 6 x AAA, 8 x AA
Poweradd Apollo 2 10,000mah + Solar power
Goal Zero Guide 10 Plus and AAA adapter
Charging cables
Goal Zero Luna Stick Light

Food/Water/Tools/IFAK:
2 x 1 liter Smart Water
Morakniv w/Light My Fire
Skittles Sour (Best kind) Some prefer sweets, I prefer sour unless it's donuts.
IFAK in Maxpedition pouch of some sort. Internals are pretty custom, I can break this kit down at a later time.
Food - Field stripped MRE's, close to 3, with some extras included.

Other Smalls:
Pistol Cleaning kit
Spoon/Knife/Spatula thing.
Ignore the chemlight, I ditched it.
Toiletries
Baby Wipes (Need more)

Shelter/Clothing:
Kifaru Woobie Highlander color
SOL Escape Bivy (Needs replaced with OD, this is one item I still rob for camping trips in colder weather.)
Outdoor Products (Walmart) 5'x7' silny type tarp used for ground cloth
2 x socks. 1 merino, 1 poly, both long in length reaching almost to my knee.
Agis Hoplite rainfly, stolen because I like it quite a bit and it's super lightweight.
OPSEC Poncho
Smartwool Beanie
Columbia Neck Gaiter. Purposefully got the women's version because the men's was WAY too big, probably double the material volume.

Total Weight including heavy ass MRE's and 2 liters of water:
28 pounds!!! My goal was 25, but three pounds really isn't much considering my usual distance required (26 miles).

And that's it. The two long pockets are for possibles. I always wear weather appropriate clothing, but on the days I don't I keep extra in my car including my Salomon Comet 3d GTX boots and two more pairs of socks. I keep a Columbia rain jacket, a fleece long sleeve shirt, and a spare pair of pants in my trunk. I take my lunch to work everyday which always includes a 32oz nalgene and I almost always take extra food I could carry like bags of nuts or bagels. I would rather have a small pack if I need to move fast, I could just ditch the long pockets as they would always be spare items from the car.

Also not pictured is my HPG Snubby Kit Bag, 2 x 17rd glock mags, multitool, and EDC (Glock 19, spare mag, Nitecore SRT3, pocket knife, watch, and cell phone). I don't include this weight as it is basically a part of my body mass so many hours a day, it's not even felt.

Final thoughts. The weight of my packs normally isn't something I stress too much about because I don't really have any other areas I can shed weight. I walk between 10-25 miles per night at work, hike weekly (Normally with a training weight of 35lbs which tapers up before winter), bike during the summer, lift heavy weights (Heavy to me!), and am in generally good health. I'm always below 10% bodyfat so I don't have much I can lose on my body which makes food a fairly important thing in my packs. IMO, this pack doesn't have enough food, but my ideal trip is less than 24 hours, so 3 days worth will suffice.

So that's it, the newest version of the GHB. Questions, comments, or concerns? I do have some redundant items, but I've done that on purpose with the PSK as it's made to pull out and pocket to have on my person at all times in case I'm separated from the pack permanently.

Manimal2878 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:44 pm

Why Fmj?

I see a lot of redundant items, that I would pitch to save weight, but you didn't really solicit for advice. Though I would suggest toilet paper anyway unless that is one of the purposes of the wipes.

Dragon80 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:11 pm

Manimal2878 wrote:

Why Fmj?

I see a lot of redundant items, that I would pitch to save weight, but you didn't really solicit for advice. Though I would suggest toilet paper anyway unless that is one of the purposes of the wipes.

Some of the redundant items are on purpose but I would like to hear your thoughts.

I never take TP with me because they only have two uses, wiping and fire tinder. The wet wipes can be used for wiping and overall hygiene, which is much more valuable because tinder is easy. Tinder is why I use a lot of rubber bands, ranger bands, etc,. as well. And on the FMJ, after spending some time researching and talking to some trauma docs, I'm no longer sold on JHP's. But I am looking for my next carry ammo, so for now it's FMJ's that feed well and are accurate in my Glock.

Wraith6761 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:10 am

Hmmm...I see tea candles, but no candle lantern...without one, they tend to blow out very easily, as well as slide off whatever you have them sitting on. They don't create all that much light either. Also wondering about the glowsticks...if you're intending to use them as a marker/signal, all's well with it, but if you're depending on them for area lighting, eh...there are better lighting options in that weight range IMO.

The dish soap has me a little confused...from what I saw of your food selection, I don't really see where you'd have anything to clean beyond a spoon which, in backpacker fashion, can be licked clean, or if you're really worried about it, an alcohol pad will clean it better for less weight with 0% chance of you not rinsing well enough and ending up with the runs; everything looks like "add hot water and stir" meals...maybe I'm missing something.

As for looking into carry ammo, check out tnoutdoors9 on youtube. He does some pretty intensely "nerdy" ammo tests and results crunching using the FBI standards. He's also not afraid to call ammo out for subpar performance or for overpenetration.

Woods Walker · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:20 am

It is late and my eyes are shot so will review this more later. Looks good. I noticed the cheap poncho and gaiters (underrated kit item) but what else do yea have for raingear.

Dragon80 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:20 am

Wraith6761 wrote:

Hmmm...I see tea candles, but no candle lantern...without one, they tend to blow out very easily, as well as slide off whatever you have them sitting on. They don't create all that much light either. Also wondering about the glowsticks...if you're intending to use them as a marker/signal, all's well with it, but if you're depending on them for area lighting, eh...there are better lighting options in that weight range IMO.

The dish soap has me a little confused...from what I saw of your food selection, I don't really see where you'd have anything to clean beyond a spoon which, in backpacker fashion, can be licked clean, or if you're really worried about it, an alcohol pad will clean it better for less weight with 0% chance of you not rinsing well enough and ending up with the runs; everything looks like "add hot water and stir" meals...maybe I'm missing something.

As for looking into carry ammo, check out tnoutdoors9 on youtube. He does some pretty intensely "nerdy" ammo tests and results crunching using the FBI standards. He's also not afraid to call ammo out for subpar performance or for overpenetration.

The tealights can be used for heat in a confined space like a car, a room, or a tent. The glow sticks I always keep. If I need to leave light somewhere like a dark stairwell, or hang one from camp at night to get back safely, and for a hands-free type of lighting that doesn't require batteries and can easily be moved or thrown around. Oh and also at their price, there really isn't much that can compare for their size and weight though I used to own a Glo-Toob that's now broken.

The dish soap is also multi-use, not just for dishes. I could bathe with it, it's antibacterial, wash clothes or water containers with it, and I have carnation, hot chocolate, and tea mixed into my stuff and it works much better than an alcohol wipe. Hot beverages tend to leave a residue that alcohol wipes/prep pads don't want to take off of my cookset so I made this switch already. I just didn't have all of the food/drinks laid out to see, sorry.

On the ammo, as I said I've researched a lot and I'm just of the opinion that a JHP isn't worth the extra cost. I will checkout his youtube though, I always like to see more. Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions.

Dragon80 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:26 am

Woods Walker wrote:

It is late and my eyes are shot so will review this more later. Looks good. I noticed the cheap poncho and gaiters (underrated kit item) but what else do yea have for raingear.

This is the limit of my rain gear right now actually. I'm eventually switching to a O.P.S.E.C. poncho and some rain pants, though I have been looking into some of the lightweight rain sets available, I just don't want to spend a lot of money on some gear that will see very little use and very little flexibility. On the gaiters, with the amount of time I spend on the trail, it's just one of those items that I see saving me a lot of time with wet feet/pants. So far they're worth 10 times their weight to me, especially when hiking around the time that snow is melting and it gets muddy. I just wish it were cheaper to get some that weren't black.

Murph · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:40 am

Hey Dragon! It's cool to see more of your setup. I've got to agree with everyone else, you should really invest in some -quality- JHP ammo. If you google search for "DocGKR Ammo Testing" you should be able to find some good threads on other forums where he has done extensive ammo testing.

Another thing that stood out to me was the your first aid kit. It seemed like a mix of general, wilderness, and trauma items. I don't know if that was your intent or not, but it doesn't seem to cover any of those areas really well.

If you're more interested in building it out trauma wise, feel free to take a look at what I've made:
viewtopic.php?p=1500616
(Make sure to click the link on the first post to go to the latest update)

Boondock · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:58 am

Nice kit. Thanks for sharing. What's the weight of that bad boy?

Dragon80 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:44 am

Murph wrote:

Hey Dragon! It's cool to see more of your setup. I've got to agree with everyone else, you should really invest in some -quality- JHP ammo. If you google search for "DocGKR Ammo Testing" you should be able to find some good threads on other forums where he has done extensive ammo testing.

Another thing that stood out to me was the your first aid kit. It seemed like a mix of general, wilderness, and trauma items. I don't know if that was your intent or not, but it doesn't seem to cover any of those areas really well.

If you're more interested in building it out trauma wise, feel free to take a look at what I've made:
viewtopic.php?p=1500616
(Make sure to click the link on the first post to go to the latest update)

Thanks, I'll check it out. On the FAK, I've got my boo boo kit which is universal to several other setups and some basic trauma items. I haven't expanded it yet but that's in the near future, I will check your stuff out again Murph. Appreciate it!

Dragon80 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:47 am

Boondock wrote:

Nice kit. Thanks for sharing. What's the weight of that bad boy?

Thanks, I need to get it a bit more refined then weigh it. I've recently made some gear changes, like switching from a Catoma EBNS to the Ionosphere so the weights aren't what they used to be. Doing a lift test, I'd say in the 40-45lb range without water. Unfortunately Indiana weather can change at the drop of a hat going from 80 down to 35, so extra layers are almost always a necessity.

The next kit I will be posting is my GHB, so stay tuned!! I got my new pack in today so the kit is being picked through and organized as we speak.

NamelessStain · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:13 pm

Dragon80 wrote:

Fenix PD20 - Maybe another headlamp to keep hands free? (I see you have one below, but they do break. A spare wouldn't hurt
Sam Splint - toss, use sticks
Aleve and Tylenol PM - Add aspirin and an anti-diarhetic
Pocket Shovel - toss, use a stick
9 x Tealight Candles - I'd drop this down to around 4, but that's me
2 x Chem Lights - toss, and add some replacement batteries for your other lights
Steripen Classic - Just something else electronic to break, I'd change to Aquamira water treatment drops
2 x Petroleum jelly and cotton balls in contact lens case - toss, the case is probably heavier than the cotton balls. Besides you have wetfire which you can get up to a dozen fires out of one
Deodorant - toss, I'm not out to impress the ladies and you already have wetfire for fire starting
Optimus Crux stove/Primus Fuel (I keep one can inside the cookset and one outside) I'm not a fan of canister stoves. I'd rather an alcohol stove. You can buy a trangia or make a soda can stove. There are multiple alcohol types that can be burned in them (NEVER USE PETROLEUM BASED FUELS)

I'd also add a stainless steel bottle for boiling water while you cook in the other pot. There have been debates about which manufacturer, but I use Klean Kanteen.

Edit: add paracord

It's been a while since I took a look at BOBs, I'll give it a whirl. See notes after the items in Green other options, Red for removals.

Just my 2 cents.

Dragon80 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:13 pm

NamelessStain wrote:

Dragon80 wrote:

Fenix PD20 - Maybe another headlamp to keep hands free? (I see you have one below, but they do break. A spare wouldn't hurt
I'll take a handheld over an additional headlamp, plus it's my EDC and in my left pocket everywhere I go 24/7.
Sam Splint - toss, use sticks
This size is around 1 ounce, I'll keep it. There are areas here without trees, cornfields/soy fields.
Aleve and Tylenol PM - Add aspirin and an anti-diarhetic
I have both in my boo boo kit.
Pocket Shovel - toss, use a stick
Once again, if there are no sticks or the ground is hard/rocky, this is a better choice. Plus it can be used to more easily make a smokeless fire pit.
9 x Tealight Candles - I'd drop this down to around 4, but that's me
I might, this is still a trial run for this item in my kit and will only be there during cold months IF I keep it at all.
2 x Chem Lights - toss, and add some replacement batteries for your other lights
I have replacement batteries, they're just another non-pictured item. I'm new to this taking pictures of my kit stuff, I just like to get out and use it.
Steripen Classic - Just something else electronic to break, I'd change to Aquamira water treatment drops
Sure, anything can break but water treatment drops expire as well. Everything has their flaws.
2 x Petroleum jelly and cotton balls in contact lens case - toss, the case is probably heavier than the cotton balls. Besides you have wetfire which you can get up to a dozen fires out of one
The lens container weighs less than an ounce and is much easier to use than ziplock which was used for a while.
Deodorant - toss, I'm not out to impress the ladies and you already have wetfire for fire starting
I'll keep it. I backpack with my girlfriend.
Optimus Crux stove/Primus Fuel (I keep one can inside the cookset and one outside) I'm not a fan of canister stoves. I'd rather an alcohol stove. You can buy a trangia or make a soda can stove. There are multiple alcohol types that can be burned in them (NEVER USE PETROLEUM BASED FUELS)
Alcohol stoves suck IMO, storing fuel for them as well. Ask my roommate whose pack still smells like Heet. Boil time is significantly different as well as I can prep a meal in around 2 minutes with this.

I'd also add a stainless steel bottle for boiling water while you cook in the other pot. There have been debates about which manufacturer, but I use Klean Kanteen.
This is something that I go back and forth about. I've abused a couple of stainless bottles in the recent past, I need to just buy a Klean Kanteen and get it over with.

Edit: add paracord

Non-pictured item as well. I have large and small hanks all over the place!

It's been a while since I took a look at BOBs, I'll give it a whirl. See notes after the items in Green other options, Red for removals.

Just my 2 cents.

I appreciate your suggestions and some of them have already been tried or tested. Some things are preference, some just because I have the items and want to use them rather then let them collect dust. The chemlights I got cheap, they weigh next to nothing and are a third line of light and far less important. Also I weigh every single item I have (Don't have weights handy, recently moved) though I'm not an ounce counter, I do try to keep my pack low in weight without sacrificing the things I need AND want. Some comfort items are almost never a bad thing. Just trying to give a little insight into my mindset.

Woods Walker · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:27 pm

Dragon80 wrote:

Woods Walker wrote:

It is late and my eyes are shot so will review this more later. Looks good. I noticed the cheap poncho and gaiters (underrated kit item) but what else do yea have for raingear.

This is the limit of my rain gear right now actually. I'm eventually switching to a O.P.S.E.C. poncho and some rain pants, though I have been looking into some of the lightweight rain sets available, I just don't want to spend a lot of money on some gear that will see very little use and very little flexibility. On the gaiters, with the amount of time I spend on the trail, it's just one of those items that I see saving me a lot of time with wet feet/pants. So far they're worth 10 times their weight to me, especially when hiking around the time that snow is melting and it gets muddy. I just wish it were cheaper to get some that weren't black.

Gaiters work great with a poncho. Rain gear is probably one of the most important clothing items IMHO. I have a MC poncho from Dakotaouterwear. Made in the USA and seems really good but is also in that 70 dollar range.

https://www.dakotaouterwear.com/search. ... eField.y=0

If you don't have a tarp you need something with grommets or tie-offs. Makes for an ok backup shelter or annex to work with smaller tents. Kinda nice to cook or change under a tarp rather than just fighting with a smaller tent alone. In fact I could go on for a long time about the multi use aspects of a tarp or poncho with grommets/tie-offs. A UL rain suit also isn't a bad idea. Not to say the cheap poncho doesn't have a place in some systems. I liked that you packed extra clothing items and took serious consideration for potable water. Is there a hard canteen someplace in your system such as a wide mouth Nalgene?

Dragon80 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:44 pm

Woods Walker wrote:

Dragon80 wrote:

Woods Walker wrote:

It is late and my eyes are shot so will review this more later. Looks good. I noticed the cheap poncho and gaiters (underrated kit item) but what else do yea have for raingear.

This is the limit of my rain gear right now actually. I'm eventually switching to a O.P.S.E.C. poncho and some rain pants, though I have been looking into some of the lightweight rain sets available, I just don't want to spend a lot of money on some gear that will see very little use and very little flexibility. On the gaiters, with the amount of time I spend on the trail, it's just one of those items that I see saving me a lot of time with wet feet/pants. So far they're worth 10 times their weight to me, especially when hiking around the time that snow is melting and it gets muddy. I just wish it were cheaper to get some that weren't black.

Gaiters work great with a poncho. Rain gear is probably one of the most important clothing items IMHO. I have a MC poncho from Dakotaouterwear. Made in the USA and seems really good but is also in that 70 dollar range.

https://www.dakotaouterwear.com/search. ... eField.y=0

If you don't have a tarp you need something with grommets or tie-offs. Makes for an ok backup shelter or annex to work with smaller tents. Kinda nice to cook or change under a tarp rather than just fighting with a smaller tent alone. In fact I could go on for a long time about the multi use aspects of a tarp or poncho with grommets/tie-offs. A UL rain suit also isn't a bad idea. Not to say the cheap poncho doesn't have a place in some systems. I liked that you packed extra clothing items and took serious consideration for potable water. Is there a hard canteen someplace in your system such as a wide mouth Nalgene?

Oh yeah, fighting to change in a small tent is a PITA, especially at 6'3"! lol The Ionosphere is fairly roomy but a tarp is definitely better. I do have a few cheap tarps that haven't seen much use, most of my trips last year had good enough weather to not need them. If I don't end up with the OPSEC or the one you linked, I might just opt for a sil nylon UL tarp. I have one now that I will add as a ground cloth, it's a cheap Outdoor Products 5'x7'. That multicam poncho is almost identical to the OPSEC found here which I'm considering. http://www.grampsleather.com/o-p-s-e-c--details.html

I recently got rid of my nalgene, but have been looking at Klean Kanteens for that purpose. I always take spare bladders because later in the Summer if we haven't had much rain, finding water can be a few miles walk. So normally we will make a trip and take 10+ liters back to camp. Luckily for me, my group are all big hydrators so some extra water is never a bad thing.

Dragon80 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:01 pm

Some items I'm looking for as well right now are a small axe, looking into Wetterlings around 15" handle, a Klean Kanteen wide mouth stainless bottle, and lightweight boots for summer.

Speaking of footwear, from right to left.
Adidas Climacools (These have since changed from a very soft sole to a harder one. These are excellent camp shoes and weigh little more than the expensive minimalist shoes.)
Merrell Moab Ventilator Mid boots (I've had two pair of these and their goretex brother.)
Salomon Comet 3D GTX (These are goretex boots and the best boot I've owned by leaps and bounds. They're lightweight, great support under heavy loads, and comfortable!)
Bates 9" desert boots (These are okay. I will wear them if I'm going to be in very sketchy terrain for the added support.)

This is my new GHB Project! I've switched packs a few times, but I'm currently working on slimming it down so I've dropped down from a Camelbak Trizip 1,900 cu.in. to this Mystery Ranch ASAP 1,120 cu.in. More pics and updates on this as soon as I figure a few things out.

Woods Walker · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:42 pm

Dragon80 wrote:

Woods Walker wrote:

Dragon80 wrote:

Woods Walker wrote:

It is late and my eyes are shot so will review this more later. Looks good. I noticed the cheap poncho and gaiters (underrated kit item) but what else do yea have for raingear.

This is the limit of my rain gear right now actually. I'm eventually switching to a O.P.S.E.C. poncho and some rain pants, though I have been looking into some of the lightweight rain sets available, I just don't want to spend a lot of money on some gear that will see very little use and very little flexibility. On the gaiters, with the amount of time I spend on the trail, it's just one of those items that I see saving me a lot of time with wet feet/pants. So far they're worth 10 times their weight to me, especially when hiking around the time that snow is melting and it gets muddy. I just wish it were cheaper to get some that weren't black.

Gaiters work great with a poncho. Rain gear is probably one of the most important clothing items IMHO. I have a MC poncho from Dakotaouterwear. Made in the USA and seems really good but is also in that 70 dollar range.

https://www.dakotaouterwear.com/search. ... eField.y=0

If you don't have a tarp you need something with grommets or tie-offs. Makes for an ok backup shelter or annex to work with smaller tents. Kinda nice to cook or change under a tarp rather than just fighting with a smaller tent alone. In fact I could go on for a long time about the multi use aspects of a tarp or poncho with grommets/tie-offs. A UL rain suit also isn't a bad idea. Not to say the cheap poncho doesn't have a place in some systems. I liked that you packed extra clothing items and took serious consideration for potable water. Is there a hard canteen someplace in your system such as a wide mouth Nalgene?

Oh yeah, fighting to change in a small tent is a PITA, especially at 6'3"! lol The Ionosphere is fairly roomy but a tarp is definitely better. I do have a few cheap tarps that haven't seen much use, most of my trips last year had good enough weather to not need them. If I don't end up with the OPSEC or the one you linked, I might just opt for a sil nylon UL tarp. I have one now that I will add as a ground cloth, it's a cheap Outdoor Products 5'x7'. That multicam poncho is almost identical to the OPSEC found here which I'm considering. http://www.grampsleather.com/o-p-s-e-c--details.html

I recently got rid of my nalgene, but have been looking at Klean Kanteens for that purpose. I always take spare bladders because later in the Summer if we haven't had much rain, finding water can be a few miles walk. So normally we will make a trip and take 10+ liters back to camp. Luckily for me, my group are all big hydrators so some extra water is never a bad thing.

For a time I got into the habit of not packing any hard canteens to save weight but then one trip I dumped hot water into my Camelbak which then fell over and punctured. I guess the combo of hot plastic and poor timing was enough. The rest of the trip sucked as didn't even take a backup anything. I think maybe in an ER more things could go wrong increasing the chance of plastic hydration bags failing for one crazy reason or another. Never have been able to break A nalgene hard canteen however I am sure that too is possible. I believe the "Outdoor Products Ultralight 5'x7' Backpacker's Tarp" is actually urethane coated not sil nlyon however if used as a ground cloth that will actually be a pro. Sil tarps are slippery, attract dirt like crazy and are often too thin for abrasive work like a ground cloth. However there are other pros to silnylon. Just depends on the need I suppose. I use this one for a ground cloth and occasional smaller lean-to style tarp.

http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?pr ... OgodfGkAVg

When sleeping in smaller bivy type shelters I like to use a tarp combined with the bivy or tarp/bivy combo. Cook, hang out and change under the tarp then sleep in the bivy tent.

Dragon80 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:55 pm

Woods Walker wrote:

For a time I got into the habit of not packing any hard canteens to save weight but then one trip I dumped hot water into my Camelbak which then fell over and punctured. I guess the combo of hot plastic and poor timing was enough. The rest of the trip sucked as didn't even take a backup anything. I think maybe in an ER more things could go wrong increasing the chance of plastic hydration bags failing for one crazy reason or another. Never have been able to break A nalgene hard canteen however I am sure that too is possible. I believe the "Outdoor Products Ultralight 5'x7' Backpacker's Tarp" is actually urethane coated not sil nlyon however if used as a ground cloth that will actually be a pro. Sil tarps are slippery, attract dirt like crazy and are often too thin for abrasive work like a ground cloth. However there are other pros to silnylon. Just depends on the need I suppose. I use this one for a ground cloth and occasional smaller lean-to style tarp.

http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?pr ... OgodfGkAVg

When sleeping in smaller bivy type shelters I like to use a tarp combined with the bivy or tarp/bivy combo. Cook, hang out and change under the tarp then sleep in the bivy tent.

Yeah I don't have much experience with silnylon, but I have friends who use them and swear by them. So far I've only had one bladder punctured and it was by a thrown Kukri machete (don't ask, wasn't me.). I have been using my two main 1L Platypus bladders for about a year and a half (knock on wood) without any issues. You're right on things going wrong, when it rains it pours! On your bivy and tarp setup, that's a brilliant idea. It's funny how something so small can be so easily dismissed, thank you! That's now on my to-do/add list.

Woods Walker · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:15 pm

Wish I could take credit for the tarp/bivy combo but can't. A poncho works good for that as well. The coverage isn't great but enough to make a big difference.

Sil nylon tarps rock but have one weakness. They don't hold up to abbraision well. However they do repel water/wind and the silicon is very very durable. My 8x10 Equinox siltarp setup as an A frame.

5x8 ID siltarp setup as frying A-frame.

Dragon80 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:15 pm

Very cool, thanks for the pics, that gives me some ideas. I could probably pull off something decent with my 5x7 until I get the size I want. I was thinking 6'x8' which should give me a pretty decent front porch for my bivvy.

Boondock · **Posted:** Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:32 pm

Dragon80 wrote:

I'd say in the 40-45lb range without water.

Without water. Ugh. I suggest doing everything you can to trim at least 5-10 lbs.

Dragon80 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:44 pm

Boondock wrote:

Dragon80 wrote:

I'd say in the 40-45lb range without water.

Without water. Ugh. I suggest doing everything you can to trim at least 5-10 lbs.

I'm good. This will feel light after coming out of winter hauling 60-70 in the snow! I actually do at least a 10 miler once a week, so moving this weight isn't a big deal. When warmer months hit, its weight will drop significantly.

Boondock · **Posted:** Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:55 am

Dragon80 wrote:

I'm good ...

I've no doubt in your ability to hump the weight. The question is, do you want to pack that load, or maybe shed some pounds to carry extra chow, water, etc.? Think about it.

Dragon80 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:07 am

Boondock wrote:

Dragon80 wrote:

I'm good ...

I've no doubt in your ability to hump the weight. The question is, do you want to pack that load, or maybe shed some pounds to carry extra chow, water, etc.? Think about it.

I think about it all the time actually. Some months I can shed quite a bit of weight which is nice, but others I just can't. Weather here is neither steady nor predictable with swings in temps of around 50 degrees from one day to the next. Most of my weight is in shelter and extra clothing, so it's really difficult to get rid of the weighty items without spending a ton of money. My tent is only about 2.5lbs but my sleeping bag almost weighs double that. I'd really love to be able to afford a really nice down bag that could cut that weight in half, but it's just not in the cards right now. Same for my sleeping pad. Also with water being so readily available around here, I really don't have to hump much water anywhere, so that really helps. It's normally 3 liters unless I'm in an area where it's hard to get to in which case, I can deal with the added weight if needed.

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