Why i don't see the point of batoning and it dangerous

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

Locked
User avatar
azrael99
* * * * *
Posts: 2371
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:55 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: night of the living dead, 28 days later, Zombieland, World war Z (when it gonna be out)
Location: Saguenay,Quebec Canada

Why i don't see the point of batoning and it dangerous

Post by azrael99 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:27 pm

A knife is a practical tool,

But some give it utility they weren't designed for.

a knife is not :

-a screwdriver
-a prybar
- a pick
-a hammer


and certainly not A AXE . you aren't suppose to split log with a knife. and for those who would like to tell me otherwise

check theses pics and then try to make me change my mind

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

i tried to not show only knife of certain maker and show multiple different models
Last edited by azrael99 on Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"We stopped to look for monster under the bed , the day we realized that they were inside us"

Doctorr Fabulous
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 12210
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:06 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Evil Dead, Zombieland, 28 Days/Weeks Later

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:30 pm

More like "don't baton with a shitty knife or a Mora."
Opinions subject to change in light of new information.
Image
http://i.imgur.com/wG6ZMjE.jpg

User avatar
azrael99
* * * * *
Posts: 2371
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:55 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: night of the living dead, 28 days later, Zombieland, World war Z (when it gonna be out)
Location: Saguenay,Quebec Canada

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by azrael99 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:32 pm

what about don't baton at all and use the tool that was MADE to split wood ?

like a axe ?
"We stopped to look for monster under the bed , the day we realized that they were inside us"

Doctorr Fabulous
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 12210
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:06 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Evil Dead, Zombieland, 28 Days/Weeks Later

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:37 pm

azrael99 wrote:what about don't baton at all and use the tool that was MADE to split wood ?

like a axe ?
Because I want to? Because I want to split smaller stuff that would be unsafe to use an axe on? Because an axe is heavy and I don't want to carry one for a short trip in the woods? Or because I might need to split wood in situations where I don't have an axe?
Opinions subject to change in light of new information.
Image
http://i.imgur.com/wG6ZMjE.jpg

User avatar
Denis J.
*
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Calgary, AB

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by Denis J. » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:45 pm

Batoning is a safer and more controlled method of splitting wood compared to traditional use of a hatchet or axe. And a good knife is also a lot lighter and is more easily brought into the backcountry for people watching their pack weights more closely.

Finally, when talking about wilderness survival, one is unlikely to have a relatively heavy hatchet or axe in their pack "just in case." Having a knife capable of batoning (and knowing how to do it; which is a good reason to do it in non-emergency situations) opens up more possibilities and can improve the chance of success when making a fire in an emergency scenario. This is what I consider a survival knife; the type of knife I need for my regular camp chores, but somewhat overbuilt and tough enough to take the abuse that might be needed if I find myself in a true survival situation - which includes being able to stand up to batoning.
Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

User avatar
azrael99
* * * * *
Posts: 2371
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:55 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: night of the living dead, 28 days later, Zombieland, World war Z (when it gonna be out)
Location: Saguenay,Quebec Canada

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by azrael99 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:50 pm

i'm sure the owner of the knives you can see there also had the same idea and same opinion as you

and i checked, most hatchet and tomahawk weigh not more than 2lb and most of the time a little bit more than 1lb that not what i call heavy personally. but it maybe just me

and what about getting branch to burn that would equal the size of a single log ? a branch is easier to get, carry and cut with a axe

and by the way, if you baton because you want and you can, using a knife that wasn't designed to do so, then don't blame the knife or the maker if it break.

it too easy to say ' what a piece of crap' or' i will never buy from them again' then simply stop and think ' maybe i shouldn't have used my knife to split that log'
"We stopped to look for monster under the bed , the day we realized that they were inside us"

User avatar
azrael99
* * * * *
Posts: 2371
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:55 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: night of the living dead, 28 days later, Zombieland, World war Z (when it gonna be out)
Location: Saguenay,Quebec Canada

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by azrael99 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:01 pm

for those who absolutely want to do batoning and want a knife ACTUALLY DESIGNED to do such task

here 2 knifes i found that actually MADE for that

Image

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/Page.a ... at=1,51222" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Image

https://www.lehmans.com/p-1174-multi-pu ... knife.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"We stopped to look for monster under the bed , the day we realized that they were inside us"

User avatar
bacpacjac
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:32 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Zombieland, Resident Evil, I Am Legend, Shaun of the Dea, Army of Darkness, Dawn of the Dead
Location: Ontario, CAN
Contact:

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by bacpacjac » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:22 pm

Because.....there's no way am I going to carry an Ax, or even a hatchet, for "just in case".

I was out for a hike with my son a week or so ago and needed a fire to get him warm after a good soaking in a creek. We were just out for a day hike, with no intention of having a campfire. Twig fires are pretty easy, and there was lots of driftwood on the beach, and both fallen and standing deadwood in the surrounding forest, but... everything here was frozen and impregnated with ice.. What I needed was a split wood fire. What I didn't have was an ax. What I did have was a knife - a knife that I bought with batoning specifically in mind. (2 knives actually - My kids gave me a Gerber BGUSK for Mother's Day last year, which I usually use for batonning, but this time I tried my Mora LMF since I just needed a little and it wasn't a very thick piece I was trying to split.) I also had my Bacho Laplander folding saw, but frozen wood is a PITA and sawing up thin pieces to get a fire started is even worse.

What I ended up with was a nice hot little campfire, with a combination of twigs and split wood, formed into a teepee to let the frozen wood dry out while the split wood did it's job. Worked like a charm.

Just for the record, my Mora is just fine, in part, I suspect, because I didn't use it like an ax. I used it like a knife, with the respect it deserves. No swinging, no heavy batonning, no big prying.... just some light batoning and shaving to get some tinder and kindling to get the fire started.
Last edited by bacpacjac on Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
“This is the part in the movie where that guy says, "Zombies? What zombies?" just before they eat his brains. I don't want to be that guy.” ― Holly Black, Kin

My Woods Bumming Kit / My Day Hike Pack/GHB / My Personal BOB / Our Family BOB / My Youtube Channel

User avatar
Sworbeyegib
* * * * *
Posts: 3361
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:15 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: night of the living dead is what started it all for me
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Contact:

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by Sworbeyegib » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:26 pm

In my opinion, it whatever floats someone's boat. A lot of factors can play in why someone would choose to baton, or not baton wood. There is a big gap between someone splitting huge amounts of large, dense, possibly frozen wood in huge volume for an extended trip, and for someone who needs to split some smaller logs because it is impossible to find dry kindling during a short trek.

For me, I usually don't need to split most of the wood I use when camping. I don't process large trees, the majority of my firewood comes from deadfall branches that rarely exceed 6 inches in diameter. It is very wet and rainy here, and I only split wood if I can't find any good dry kindling. I don't really need to carry a dedicated hatchet or axe because of it. I live where a machete is much more useful than an axe.

Also, proper technique can greatly protect your blade from breaking. Always keeping the blade level, and never banging on the hilt are two rules that should always be embraced.
**Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't**

Image

User avatar
Denis J.
*
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Calgary, AB

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by Denis J. » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:30 pm

My smallest hatchet (Gerber Combo Axe) weighs a pound and a half and my knife (Fallkniven F1) weighs a third of a pound. While I will often bring the hatchet along when backpacking and am planning a night in the woods, I definitely won't have it with me on day trips.

From experience, I find batoning allows much more control than using a hatchet does (and really, for weight, a hatchet is really the alternative we're talking about here). Note: this is when splitting appropriately sized wood (~1 inch less than blade length & under). You have no fingers in the way and run no risk of missing and hitting yourself; both risks you inevitably run into when using a short handled hatchet. And sometimes, getting that split wood makes all the difference when getting a fire lit & keeping it going.

Now don't get me wrong, I've been using hatchets and axes since I was a kid so I do know how to properly use them. However there is a good reason that some experts recommend against axes as survival tools; when their use is often needed when one is not on the top of their game (cold, hungry, injured, etc.).
Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

User avatar
azrael99
* * * * *
Posts: 2371
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:55 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: night of the living dead, 28 days later, Zombieland, World war Z (when it gonna be out)
Location: Saguenay,Quebec Canada

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by azrael99 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:32 pm

that also what i do when i don't have a axe on me

i use branch, dead wood laying on the ground, kindling if i don't find any i make some with my knife and some dry wood. then when my fire is well started with enough cinder, then move to a little bigger piece of wood, and go on until i can put full size log or branch if any available
"We stopped to look for monster under the bed , the day we realized that they were inside us"

User avatar
Maverick299
* * * * *
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:20 am
Location: Hawkeye State

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by Maverick299 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:34 pm

Let's analyze these pics and find out what's wrong.


Look at the hilt on this knife laying on the log. Very small tang, seems to be half the size of the actual blade. Also look at how green that log is and it's size. Analysis, cheap knife, poor wood selection.
Image


Same problem as last knife, look at how small the tang is.
Image


See that knot in the wood? That is going to cause some major twisting and binding of the knife. Once again, not a fully tang knife and poor wood selection.
Image


This appears to be the only full tang knife in the bunch. But look at the grain of the wood. Wood splits with the grain, not across it. Conclusion......moron operating the knife.
Image


Conclusion here..........it's a $10 knife......nuff said.
Image

i tried to not show only knife of certain maker and show multiple different models
The Devil's always smiling when I pass by.

User avatar
azrael99
* * * * *
Posts: 2371
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:55 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: night of the living dead, 28 days later, Zombieland, World war Z (when it gonna be out)
Location: Saguenay,Quebec Canada

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by azrael99 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:43 pm

so we can resume it by

-go big or go home. and use knife that ACTUALLY DESIGNED for such task...........weird, that remember me of something i said earlier

-moron should not try to do it , or you should be well trained
"We stopped to look for monster under the bed , the day we realized that they were inside us"

User avatar
crypto
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 16637
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: City of Saint Louis

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by crypto » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:46 pm

You should go over to bushcraftusa.com and tell them they're all being stupid and dangerous.
MF'N TEAM LEADER

"Some people think that the best way to stop the leopard is to cut the horns off the gazelle. This, my friends, is insane."

Image
Image

User avatar
azrael99
* * * * *
Posts: 2371
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:55 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: night of the living dead, 28 days later, Zombieland, World war Z (when it gonna be out)
Location: Saguenay,Quebec Canada

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by azrael99 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:50 pm

no one gave me a fair reason that batoning can be the only suitable solution in a situation.

if you can't use big piece of wood, use smaller piece of wood. 10 piece of wood that would equal the size of a single log will be as effective as the log.
"We stopped to look for monster under the bed , the day we realized that they were inside us"

User avatar
bacpacjac
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:32 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Zombieland, Resident Evil, I Am Legend, Shaun of the Dea, Army of Darkness, Dawn of the Dead
Location: Ontario, CAN
Contact:

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by bacpacjac » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:04 pm

I think we have an important clarification: The OP didn't actually mean to call anyone who batons wood with their knives stupid and dangerous. And he didn't mean to imply that because a few knives have been broken by batoning that they all will be. He just wanted to ask: "In what situation would batoning wood with your knife be the only solution?"
“This is the part in the movie where that guy says, "Zombies? What zombies?" just before they eat his brains. I don't want to be that guy.” ― Holly Black, Kin

My Woods Bumming Kit / My Day Hike Pack/GHB / My Personal BOB / Our Family BOB / My Youtube Channel

Darkhunter
* *
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:15 am
Location: Central Florida

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by Darkhunter » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:10 pm

azrael99 wrote:no one gave me a fair reason that batoning can be the only suitable solution in a situation.

if you can't use big piece of wood, use smaller piece of wood. 10 piece of wood that would equal the size of a single log will be as effective as the log.
If not more effective. Smaller pieces equal less time needed to dry it out. This makes it easier for you to ignite it and use it.

User avatar
Mikeyboy
* * * * *
Posts: 2265
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 8:00 am

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by Mikeyboy » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:12 pm

The problem is everyone batons way wrong thanks to following wackos on youtube.

A knife, no matter how good you think it is , what steel its made out of is not an axe. People go on stupid mode driving a 7" knife down the center of a 6.5" hardwood log and wonder why the knife breaks. You do need to take it easy, and use your brain as well as your brawn while batoning .

1) Always go with the grain. This guy went against it.
Image

2) The log or section you are batoning thru should not be more than half as wide as the blade is long. The picture above also show a log that is bigger then the blade. If you have a good knife with a 6" blade, you can baton 3" wide pieces of wood all day long without issue. If you have a big log, just plank off the outer layers taking 3" bites of wood off and work your way towards the center. The majority of broken batoning knife pics you see are NOT following this rule.

3) DON'T baton long sections of wood, especially if you have a saw. The log shouldn't be longer than your forearm, is an old pioneer saying that goes back to chopping wood with a axe for your fireplace/stove. Having short logs also helps with #4 & #5. Also you put less stress on your knife, and with a decent saw you will probably end up doing the same amount work sawing down a 3ft long log into 3 section then batoning it down then trying to baton thru the entire 3ft log.

4) Always hit the top of the blade, avoid hitting the tip of the blade, and NEVER, EVER hit the handle or guard of your knife. If you were already following #2 and #3 you will not need to hit the tip of the blade or the handle of your knife. If you have some drift or get stuck you can LIGHTLY tap the butt cap/bottom of the blade handle like you were tapping in a nail to move it forward.
Image

5) I might start a war with the following statement. The best knife to baton with is a full tang knife that does NOT have a full flat ground blade. FFG blades, especially ones with textured coating are more likely to get stuck in a log when batoning. FFG blades have more surface area to create more friction, and is more narrow while other grind create a wider wedge effect to force the wood apart with less surface area friction to trap the blade. Now if you follow the above rules, using a FFG blade is fine. Actually the fallacy that FFG blade are the best for batoning, is because when you first start batoning a FFG blade its slips right in the wood. However once buried its more likely to get stuck. Some "survival knife" users on youtube and TV use ample lubricant like WD40 on the blade before batonting to make it less likely to get stuck and to make batoning easier. I think this is a cheat and disservice because most likely in a survival situation you will not have WD40 with you.

6) Know your wood. Wet green wood is hard to split and actually will not burn well. Also know the difference between hard dense wood and moderate hard and soft woods. Be real careful trying to baton real hard wood. If Hardwood is your only option, just go down to 1/3 the blade length. Otherwise simply avoid splitting the hardwood and just use the logs whole if other softer wood for splitting is available. A rule of thumb is to heft the wood in one hand and compare it to your memory or other pieces of wood around you. I can tell you that a bone dry seasoned piece of Black Walnut, Black Locust, Hickory or Oak that is a foot long and only as thick as a can of soda, will feel unusually heavy, like a dumbbell compared to other wood. It will weigh more than a piece of birch, ash and maple. Try to drive a 6" blade down a 5" piece of black locust or Oak and you can break even the best of knives.

6) If you are unsure of your knife or your batoning skills there are OTHER WAYS to split a log other than batoning. In a survival situation I rather "notch and whack"
Last edited by Mikeyboy on Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Sworbeyegib
* * * * *
Posts: 3361
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:15 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: night of the living dead is what started it all for me
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Contact:

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by Sworbeyegib » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:19 pm

Mikeyboy wrote: 5) I might start a war with the following statement. The best knife to baton with is a full tang knife that does NOT have a full flat ground blade. FFG blades, especially ones with textured coating are more likely to get stuck in a log when batoning. FFG blades have more surface area to create more friction, and is more narrow while other grind create a wider wedge effect to force the wood apart with less surface area friction to trap the blade. Now if you follow the above rules, using a FFG blade is fine. Actually the fallacy that FFG blade are the best for batoning, is because when you first start batoning a FFG blade its slips right in the wood. However once buried its more likely to get stuck. Some "survival knife" users on youtube and TV use ample lubricant like WD40 on the blade before batonting to make it less likely to get stuck and to make batoning easier. I think this is a cheat and disservice because most likely in a survival situation you will not have WD40 with you.
I agree with you there. A Saber ground and many hollow ground blade will reduce the drag on the balde, and prevent the edge from taking the brunt of the force when being forced down. Than being said, a FFG knife still works very well if used properly.
**Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't**

Image

User avatar
azrael99
* * * * *
Posts: 2371
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:55 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: night of the living dead, 28 days later, Zombieland, World war Z (when it gonna be out)
Location: Saguenay,Quebec Canada

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by azrael99 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:21 pm

bacpacjac wrote:I think we have an important clarification: The OP didn't actually mean to call anyone who batons wood with their knives stupid and dangerous. And he didn't mean to imply that because a few knives have been broken by batoning that they all will be. He just wanted to ask: "In what situation would batoning wood with your knife be the only solution?"

well thank you, and yes, most knife aren't designed for that task. and it dangerous to baton with a tool that not designed for that. you need tool designed for the purpose.
"We stopped to look for monster under the bed , the day we realized that they were inside us"

User avatar
Mikeyboy
* * * * *
Posts: 2265
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 8:00 am

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by Mikeyboy » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:31 pm

Sworbeyegib wrote:
Mikeyboy wrote: 5) I might start a war with the following statement. The best knife to baton with is a full tang knife that does NOT have a full flat ground blade. FFG blades, especially ones with textured coating are more likely to get stuck in a log when batoning. FFG blades have more surface area to create more friction, and is more narrow while other grind create a wider wedge effect to force the wood apart with less surface area friction to trap the blade. Now if you follow the above rules, using a FFG blade is fine. Actually the fallacy that FFG blade are the best for batoning, is because when you first start batoning a FFG blade its slips right in the wood. However once buried its more likely to get stuck. Some "survival knife" users on youtube and TV use ample lubricant like WD40 on the blade before batonting to make it less likely to get stuck and to make batoning easier. I think this is a cheat and disservice because most likely in a survival situation you will not have WD40 with you.
I agree with you there. A Saber ground and many hollow ground blade will reduce the drag on the balde, and prevent the edge from taking the brunt of the force when being forced down. Than being said, a FFG knife still works very well if used properly.
I totally agree there, I rather have a FFG knife because its a better slicer, meat processor and wood carver. However I would be a bit more careful when batoning with one. If you are realistic with your FFG knife and try not to split huge logs with it, it will work fine. When my "funny money" funds become more available I'm seriously considering a Ontario Blackbird SK-5, the same one shown in the pic above shattered in that big log. :awesome:
Last edited by Mikeyboy on Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Woods Walker
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 9404
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:15 pm
Location: CT

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by Woods Walker » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:32 pm

Darn it! :lol:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
Image

"There's no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing"
"Do not mess with the forces of Nature, for thou art small and biodegradable!"

Best of Woods Walker's posts.

User avatar
Mikeyboy
* * * * *
Posts: 2265
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 8:00 am

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by Mikeyboy » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:35 pm

Woods Walker wrote:Darn it! :lol:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
A mora batoning wood? Its got to be either Photoshopped, or witchcraft :awesome:

User avatar
bacpacjac
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:32 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Zombieland, Resident Evil, I Am Legend, Shaun of the Dea, Army of Darkness, Dawn of the Dead
Location: Ontario, CAN
Contact:

Re: Why batoning is stupid and dangerous

Post by bacpacjac » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:36 pm

azrael99 wrote:
bacpacjac wrote:I think we have an important clarification: The OP didn't actually mean to call anyone who batons wood with their knives stupid and dangerous. And he didn't mean to imply that because a few knives have been broken by batoning that they all will be. He just wanted to ask: "In what situation would batoning wood with your knife be the only solution?"

well thank you, and yes, most knife aren't designed for that task. and it dangerous to baton with a tool that not designed for that. you need tool designed for the purpose.

I don't disagree about needing the right tool for the job, but... the keys to this argument, IMO, are: knowledge, experience and personal preference. I used to think the same way as you do. Then I got involved with ZS and Bushcraft USA, and studied things like WW's post above. I work a lot on the first two keys, and those two things tend to change the third when it comes to batoning and a few other things. ;) To each his own, I say, but I'd rather keep my mind open.
“This is the part in the movie where that guy says, "Zombies? What zombies?" just before they eat his brains. I don't want to be that guy.” ― Holly Black, Kin

My Woods Bumming Kit / My Day Hike Pack/GHB / My Personal BOB / Our Family BOB / My Youtube Channel

Locked

Return to “Bug Out Gear”