Please explain the use of wilderness gear in a BOB

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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mystic_1
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Re: Please explain the use of wilderness gear in a BOB

Post by mystic_1 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:22 pm

Actually, response times to large scale disasters have been improving in recent years.

http://www.asu.edu/mpa/FEMAReorganization.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think any of these organizations are saying "we won't try to get to you any sooner than this".

WHY does it take organizations like FEMA and the ICRC time to respond to emergencies? Take a look at Haiyan. It was physically impossible to get to certain areas any faster, because of the physical destruction.
raistlin wrote:the bureaucratic and logistical issues of getting a huge disaster relief mechanism in motion and having help arrive at the location.
Yup I think this is the crux of things WRT disaster response times. They've gotten better at it over time and learned from past incidents, but organizations like this are hardly what you'd call nimble or flexible, generally speaking.

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Re: Please explain the use of wilderness gear in a BOB

Post by raistlin » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:46 pm

mystic_1 wrote:Actually, response times to large scale disasters have been improving in recent years.

http://www.asu.edu/mpa/FEMAReorganization.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think any of these organizations are saying "we won't try to get to you any sooner than this".

WHY does it take organizations like FEMA and the ICRC time to respond to emergencies? Take a look at Haiyan. It was physically impossible to get to certain areas any faster, because of the physical destruction.
raistlin wrote:the bureaucratic and logistical issues of getting a huge disaster relief mechanism in motion and having help arrive at the location.
Yup I think this is the crux of things WRT disaster response times. They've gotten better at it over time and learned from past incidents, but organizations like this are hardly what you'd call nimble or flexible, generally speaking.

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I agree it has gotten better, but it had to get better. Katrina was a huge failure of both preparedness and assistance implementation at the local, state, federal levels. And FEMA had historically had problems even before then. I was in Broward County when Andrew hit. Thank goodness it hit Dade instead of us, because FEMA was not very effective at providing disaster relief.

On another note, I haven't read it, but J. Allan South's 1986 A Sense of Survival apparently covers a 72 hour kit of some type. So the 72 hour kit BOB concept may have been around in preparedness circles for a long time.
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Re: Please explain the use of wilderness gear in a BOB

Post by mystic_1 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:53 pm

That's as may be, I just don't see any support for the idea that FEMA's recommendations come from such sources. Instead I see measurement of past performance.

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Re: Please explain the use of wilderness gear in a BOB

Post by TacAir » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:12 pm

Many good posts in this thread, thanks.
I have, as others noted, lived out of a small suitcase for weeks at a time, and when working in the former Soviet just a couple of years after the fall, carried a minimalist E&E bag.

What one might put in such a bag is very location dependent. If my house burned down, I could drive over to my son's place - that would take about a week.... Which is to say both FEMA and the SoA tell folks to be ready to be completely on their own "for at least a week" mostly owing to the unique issues faced in Alaska.

I keep my travel bag packed, and have a ruck with the stuff like a Svea stove, cook pot, sleep system and so on. I've stayed in "hotels" where you want to sleep in a bivy or bag, the beds are that sketchy and it is the only choice for several hundred miles in any direction.

So as to the 'wilderness gear'
Water filter/treatment tabs - cheaper than buying bottled water all the time, and I rarely trust tap water when in or near big cities.
FAK - being able to treat minor injuries beats sitting in an ER or strange clinic for hours and paying thru the nose...
Alcohol or Esbit stove - great to cook a light lunch or to brew a cuppa while taking a break on the road.
Poncho - beats changing a tire or walking to the train station in the rain.
And on and on.

Finally, when in a series of meetings with FEMA, the nice gentleman from DC explained that their job was to help get local Government up and running, so the locals could get things sorted out. This was prior to 2005, and may help explain some of the issues with Katrina.

Bottom line. Nobody will take of you like you can take care of you. If I'm not damaged, then I have "stuff" that I can use to help the neighbors...
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Re: Please explain the use of wilderness gear in a BOB

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:55 pm

As I understand, 72hr is a minimum guideline. It is not intended to be understood as "we'll get relief to everyone by 72hr" or to say "fuck you you're on your own for 72hr" but rather to act as a buffer. For instance, if it takes FEMA or the NG or Red Cross 40 hours to get distribution and shelter up and running, they're within that 72hr buffer. They also have a reduced need since (hopefully) some of the population has been doing well enough that they aren't in dire need. Red Cross and others have made a point of mentioning in their seminars that in more densely populated areas, it may be 96 or 120hr.
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Re: Please explain the use of wilderness gear in a BOB

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:32 pm

ineffableone wrote:>snip<
Even in a more localized disasters, one might end up camping in backyards. As hotels fill fast, and emergency shelters fill up too. It might be safer even to rent a patch of ground in someone's back yard than to submit yourself to a FEMA shelter.

Also when bugging out, if your not able to use a vehicle due to clogged roads. What used to be a few hour drive can become days of travel on foot especially if your not used to foot travel. With other refugees on the route with you, you will likely not have the luxury of hotels or bed and breakfasts. So again the camping gear is likely a choice you will need for resting.
Precisely why I have "camping gear" in mine. While my current home may be surrounded (literally) by 'city', that city is surrounded by 'woods'- should I have to go farther than a neighbor's place, getting where emergency X requires me to go to may require some time spent sleeping outdoors. Also, I find that the camping gear I prefer is also pretty useful in urban areas or in some cases, even just around the house. For me, my BOB pretty mush IS my camping pack, as my main plan is to remain at home if at all possible, and I've prepped accordingly (food and water stockpiles, alternate sources of each, fuel storage, etc.)
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Re: Please explain the use of wilderness gear in a BOB

Post by drop bear » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:46 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:As I understand, 72hr is a minimum guideline. It is not intended to be understood as "we'll get relief to everyone by 72hr" or to say "fuck you you're on your own for 72hr" but rather to act as a buffer. For instance, if it takes FEMA or the NG or Red Cross 40 hours to get distribution and shelter up and running, they're within that 72hr buffer. They also have a reduced need since (hopefully) some of the population has been doing well enough that they aren't in dire need. Red Cross and others have made a point of mentioning in their seminars that in more densely populated areas, it may be 96 or 120hr.
Yeah coming from another country we have a different mentality.

The kit is designed to give relief services time to focus on people who really need it. So if you can go for three days they can airlift a pensioner who can't

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Re: Please explain the use of wilderness gear in a BOB

Post by Woods Walker » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:22 am

procyon wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
Woods Walker wrote:
procyon wrote:To me, a camping pack is a camping pack.
A 'BOB' is whatever you need to get by if you need to leave home. Why folks would think that a BOB needs to be a camping pack is beyond me.
So from where I stand, it isn't so much that a new term is needed, just greater clarity on the difference between camping and 'bugging out'.
Packing a shelter, sleeping bag and pad within a BOB means those folks have a BOB containing additional options. It doesn't necessarily mean they're planning on sleeping in a parking lot or the woods if forced to abandon a location. It isn't all that complex. Also your needs might not correspond with needs (real or imagined) of others. I pack raingear in my Get Me Home, BOB, INCH and camping packs but does this mean all those bags are for camping? No it means all those packs offer an option incase I am walking in the rain. :lol:
I thought the OP was more referencing things like bushcraft knives, ferro rods, and hatchets in BOB than raingear or a sleeping mat. I could be wrong.
This is pretty much how I was looking at it.
If we had time and there was need it wouldn't take much to get the camping packs added to the duffels in the barn. But it wouldn't be as necessary, just handy. With the blankets, hay bales, tarp, etc in that barn they could easily make a shelter if for some reason they felt the barn wasn't safe. And the barns are full of tools should we decide that we need them. If it was really bad, I am guessing I want the chainsaw the the chains in the barn, not the smaller saws that we pack for the camping bags.
But for the most part the duffels are the 'we are headed to grandma's for a bit till we get stuff straightend out'. Not, 'let's camp by the creek in the snow till we get the house fixed' bags.
And to me the duffels are what I would be taking - unless we intended to go camping.
If people knew exactly what misfortune might befall them there wouldn't be a need to prep as it could be avoided in the first place. If needed you would crack out the camping gear and not give this silly thread a second thought. Possession of that gear and knowledge of how to use it gives your family more options even if you don't think it's needed. For example I have firearms as part of my preps but don't ever expect to need them.
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Re: Please explain the use of wilderness gear in a BOB

Post by bacpacjac » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:53 pm

Other than a problem at one of the two nuclear plants I live in the shadow of, I can't imagine a situation where we wouldn't either have a little time to gather what we need, or be able to get home again shortly the initial crisis. I have no intention of "running to the hills", but I have had occasion to employ my "outdoor gear" in indoor situations and I was glad to have it, including the most recent ice storm. Twice, it was while we were "bugging-out", at a realative's and at a hotel, when an snow storm struck and knocked out power and the roads. I've also used it when we'd had house guests during a winter storm, and our normal bug-in preps, like extra blankets, etc, were already being used by our guests. More of bug-in situations that the type of bug-out we're talking about in this thread, but those experiences make me more confident about wisdom of including that stuff in my GHB, and therefore the family BOBs, especially when I think about the probability of encountering unexpected delays while traveling during a crisis.

Most of our plans involve bugging-in, but even if the worst happens, we won't be "running to the hills", we'll be running towards civilization. I expect though, that we'll be in a heightened state of anxiety when we pack initially, trying to corral and prep for two young kids, secure the family pets, etc. My husband and I will be running through a check-list: Where are the kids? Call XXX and ask if it's ok for us to bunk with them for a few days. Did you turn off the gas? THIS G**D*** CAT CAN STAY HERE FOR ALL I CARE! The suitcases and backpacks are in the closet, winter clothes and baby's bag in the front hall. GRAB THAT NAKED BABY SO I CAN GET HER DRESSED! Camping gear in the garage and basement, automotive stuff in the garage, extra food and water in the basement pantry, extra clothes and blankets in the bedrooms. YES! YOU CAN BRING YOUR VIDEO GAMES! Playpen in the baby's room, toiletries and meds in the bathroom ....

It gives me peace of mind to know that I've already got the basics of shelter, water, food, first aid & meds, etc. covered in our ready to go BOBs, along with the standard going to Granny's stuff. If we need to, we can just grab them and be out the door in minutes. We don't have to worry about forgetting something. Everything else we can grab is gravy as long as we're all safe and sound. Personally, I think of my "outdoor gear" as just modified, pack-friendly, versions of the stuff I usually use at home, so it makes perfect sense to me to also think of that modification process in reverse, and have the options to turn that stuff back into indoor gear when I need to.
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