ALICE; Hellcat, Wildcat, Bobcat?

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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Usnlynx
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ALICE; Hellcat, Wildcat, Bobcat?

Post by Usnlynx » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:32 pm

This is a simple question; what's the difference between a Hellcat mod, Wildcat mod, and Bobcat mod for the Alice pack? I understand that they span the use of molle shoulder straps, to molle frames and such, but can someone just clear up the differences for me.
Pictures would be great too...

Thanks

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Re: ALICE; Hellcat, Wildcat, Bobcat?

Post by TacAir » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:39 pm

http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 3&start=24" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This thread^^ has photos of a Hellcat mod.

Haven't heard of the others.
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Re: ALICE; Hellcat, Wildcat, Bobcat?

Post by ghost792 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:45 pm

Hellcat is an ALICE pack with ALICE frame, MOLLE 2 shoulder straps and waist belt.
Bobcat is an ALICE, without frame, modded to be easier to use with heavier loads by using a piece of tubing in the frame pocket. It's kind of like a pseudo internal frame mod.
Wildcat is a term I hadn't heard before, but it seems to be the name for an ALICE using a DEI 1606/1606AC frame with MOLLE 2 shoulder straps and waist belt.

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Re: ALICE; Hellcat, Wildcat, Bobcat?

Post by Usnlynx » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:55 pm

Thanks for the response. Those make sense to me now. But, poses a new question, how do you make a pseudo internal frame in an Alice. Is there already an established way of doing that, or is it how ever you can make it/figure it out?

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Re: ALICE; Hellcat, Wildcat, Bobcat?

Post by ghost792 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:52 am

Look at the link for the Bobcat for instructions. You use a piece of pipe in the frame pocket and a piece of sleeping mat inside the ruck itself.

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Re: ALICE; Hellcat, Wildcat, Bobcat?

Post by Usnlynx » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:15 pm

So I went to the local Army/Navy store today and looked at the ALice packs. They had boxes of mediums, larges, and frames. They also had, what looked like, new ones put together. I tried on a couple. One with original style shoulder straps and one with newer style shoulder straps. I see how the kidney belt is just that...more of an anchor point then a load baring belt. Loosening the shoulder straps lowers the whole pack. So it got me to thinking. With a hellcat mod, does using the Molle straps and more importantly the belt allow you to transfer the weight to the hips vice the shoulders as with Alice straps? How about with the Molle frame?

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Re: ALICE; Hellcat, Wildcat, Bobcat?

Post by TacAir » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:24 pm

Usnlynx wrote:So I went to the local Army/Navy store today and looked at the ALice packs. They had boxes of mediums, larges, and frames. They also had, what looked like, new ones put together. I tried on a couple. One with original style shoulder straps and one with newer style shoulder straps. I see how the kidney belt is just that...more of an anchor point then a load baring belt. Loosening the shoulder straps lowers the whole pack. So it got me to thinking. With a hellcat mod, does using the Molle straps and more importantly the belt allow you to transfer the weight to the hips vice the shoulders as with Alice straps? How about with the Molle frame?
How tall Are you? It makes a diffference.

I have a Molle waist belt with the 'improved' doggie straps on a LC 2 frame. Works for me. Weight is carried by the belt.
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Re: ALICE; Hellcat, Wildcat, Bobcat?

Post by Usnlynx » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:10 pm

I'm 5'11" and about 170. So, pretty average build. I find that most packs work fine for me.

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Re: ALICE; Hellcat, Wildcat, Bobcat?

Post by TacAir » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:16 pm

Usnlynx wrote:I'm 5'11" and about 170. So, pretty average build. I find that most packs work fine for me.

The ALICE was 'optimized' for a hieght of 5' 10" - should be a good fit for you.
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Re: ALICE; Hellcat, Wildcat, Bobcat?

Post by Usnlynx » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:43 am

I had a link to a website that sells pre-made hellcats, but I lost it. I thought I was Tony's Tactical, but he only seems to have components and not fully assembled backs. Does anyone know who that is?

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Re: ALICE; Hellcat, Wildcat, Bobcat?

Post by hawk55732 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:56 am

Usnlynx wrote:I had a link to a website that sells pre-made hellcats, but I lost it. I thought I was Tony's Tactical, but he only seems to have components and not fully assembled backs. Does anyone know who that is?
He use to do full packs so it might be his site you are thinking of.

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Re: ALICE; Hellcat, Wildcat, Bobcat?

Post by Kutter_0311 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:09 pm

None of these ruck builds are hard to figure out once you start playing with the components. My advice would be to get the following:

1 x Med ALICE
1 x DEI 1606 "AC" frame
1 x ALICE shoulder straps set
1 x newest model MOLLE waistbelt

This is what I currently have my personal gear in for a bug-out. I like the ALICE straps more than the MOLLE shoulder harness as it keeps the weight of the ruck closer to your back, and easier to hump. The new frame is miles ahead of the old aluminum frame, too. If you have bulky winter gear, a Lg ALICE might be needed, but I tend to believe that if you can't fit it in a Med ALICE, you don't need it.
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Re: ALICE; Hellcat, Wildcat, Bobcat?

Post by dynomike » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:50 pm

Kutter_0311 wrote:None of these ruck builds are hard to figure out once you start playing with the components. My advice would be to get the following:

1 x Med ALICE
1 x DEI 1606 "AC" frame
1 x ALICE shoulder straps set
1 x newest model MOLLE waistbelt

This is what I currently have my personal gear in for a bug-out. I like the ALICE straps more than the MOLLE shoulder harness as it keeps the weight of the ruck closer to your back, and easier to hump. The new frame is miles ahead of the old aluminum frame, too. If you have bulky winter gear, a Lg ALICE might be needed, but I tend to believe that if you can't fit it in a Med ALICE, you don't need it.
I have this exact set up and it feels like a whole other backpack. I'm 5'11" and it fits me great. I have the "enhanced" Alice shoulder straps, which are thicker than the paltry old school ones. The DEI frame is made very well and lightweight.

Also, a big shoutout to TacAir on this board. He inspired me to set up this ruck and is an all around good guy.
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Re: ALICE; Hellcat, Wildcat, Bobcat?

Post by Jeriah » Thu May 09, 2013 7:48 pm

This is how you do a Hellcat: http://libertytreeblogs.blogspot.com/20 ... om-us.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I built myself one using my Large ALICE pack. Frankly the whole reason for the project was that the buckle on the waistbelt broke, ages ago (the 1990s, I was in my teens). I needed something to get me through a rowdy teenage backpacking trip so I threw an old metal-buckle ALICE web belt on there (I don't recommend this AT ALL, but it got me through the trip). I later replaced this with a simple strap-and-fastex arrangement that was also very unsatisfactory (circa 2005). Over the past eight years I've acquired a Zulu and an EMR from Kifaru, plus a Marauder and a Navigator for the wife, and the ALICE packs (I also had a frameless Medium) had just been gathering dust in the basement.

Eventually it occurred to me that I had waited so long procrastinating getting a proper ALICE pack belt replacement (I couldn't find one for cheaper than the cost of the pack, so it never seemed worth it), that MOLLE2 belts were now cheap, and someone else had figured out the Hellcat mod. So I put one together using the Large ALICE bag, frame, and shoulder straps (because I had them) and the MOLLE2 belt. I added a Sleep System Carrier when I found one cheap at Knob Creek, and bought some sustainment pouches at a local army navy surplus place, also cheap. The wife sewed some 1" webbing to give me a place to attach the sustainment pouches. I'll do a full review with pics later, but short answer, they make the pack really wide. They do add a lot of capacity, though.

Anyway, I just got a new frame, came with ALICE straps but a MOLLE2 belt, for the Medium ALICE, to set one up for the wife. The Hellcat seems to me, in some ways, the best solution for a realistic, pragmatic BOB, which is to say something that you'll leave loaded, "test" once in a while, but generally not want to have to unpack every time you want to go camping or use the bag for something else. Also optimal for someone who isn't a gearwhore, because they're cheap.

Obviously you can't run a Hellcat over web gear which is where the Bobcat comes in, apparently. It's new to me, but makes sense.
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Re: ALICE; Hellcat, Wildcat, Bobcat?

Post by elricfate » Wed May 15, 2013 9:02 am

I have a Hellcat that I built from components from Tony's Tactical.

Medium alice, alice frame, molle straps and molle waist belt. Honestly, other than it being a little heavy due to the alice frame, it's a great pack. I would gladly give a DEI 1606 AC a try instead of the alice frame I have on it... but it rides really well, regardless.
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Re: ALICE; Hellcat, Wildcat, Bobcat?

Post by AKFTW » Wed May 15, 2013 10:10 am

I have a Hellcat from Tony's that's basically brand new. I have an ILBE now and won't ever use it again. PM me if you're interested.
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