Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by MDCCLXXVI » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:55 pm

Seeing a lot of nice Maxpedition, 5.11, RUSH, ALICE packs used for BOBs.



For a passerby with a head on their shoulders, the fact that you:

- Are on foot in an emergency situation with a Maxped/5.11/Rush/ALICE
- Wearing boots
- Wearing 5.11 pants or similar
- LBE/molle
- shemagh
- spec-ops hat with velcro patch or boonie hat


^ All that stuff is a dead giveaway that your bag is filled with goodies, or that you are heading to a goodie-filled location.

A cop who is in-the-know would see the molle attachements on your pack, see the shemagh and 5.11 pants, and know that you're probably carrying either a firearm or a large fixed-blade knife, or both. Use that as an excuse to Stop, Frisk, and Confiscate.

=====



I was at a gun show a few months ago, and there was a guy in the parking lot talking to his buddies. He was wearing Under Armor t-shirt, Oakleys protective sunglasses, what looked like Danner boots, 5.11 pants, paracord bracelet, and Tru-Spec cap with no patch. I took a closer look, and there was a pocket clip protruding from his Front Right pocket, and another larger pocket clip from his Rear Right pocket. There was also an oblong cylindrical bulge in a lower Front Left cargo pocket ;). (carrying knives is mostly illegal in these parts)
.

If I was so inclined and I wanted to score a cache of goodies or a firearm or two, I'd have followed him home, cased his home for a few days and then when no one was home would have forced entry and appropriated much of his gear, maybe even helping myself to his (obviously) well-stocked pantry. Odds are there'd be well over $10,000 worth of goodies in there.


^ Be careful with OPSEC. There are people out there who are not well-meaning, and who are predatory. The more you dress/clothe yourself in the "Preparedness Uniform" with your paracord bracelet and 5.11/Maxpedition gear (etc), the more obvious you become to a lot of folks.


Sometimes the best disguise is to appear/pretend to be unprepared and vulnerable. In an emergency, only appear strong/hard-target when there is a high probability you will be attacked if you don't. Otherwise you're just more fresh meat for an opportunist who will follow you home one night.

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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by Dasho101 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:03 pm

we have had many many threads on gray man vs overt approach. general consensus is to each his own.
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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by Whiskey » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:04 pm

This has been beaten to death on this forum.


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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by Woods Walker » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:05 pm

Dasho101 wrote:we have had many many threads on gray man vs overt approach. general consensus is to each his own.
That about sums it up.
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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by MDCCLXXVI » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:11 pm

Dasho101 wrote:we have had many many threads on gray man vs overt approach. general consensus is to each his own.



Just trying to scare some people into becoming a Gray Man. ;)


Bottom line, if I see someone wearing a Tru-Spec cap, paracord bracelet and a pocket clip protruding from their Front/Rear Right pocket, I'm going to assume they got some nice toys at home, probably some food storage as well.

Then I have three options regarding how to interact with that person.

A) Ignore, move along. No interaction. Done that a few times, my preferred option.

B) Good intentions: "Hi, I couldn't help but notice ... ... ... Lets network/communicate/grab a beer."

C) Bad intentions: Follow the guy home, and remember his address in case I want/need to acquire some gear/food/etc in the future.

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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by BullOnParade » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:16 pm

Can you stop bringing up following the guy home and looting his supplies? K, thanks.

You missed the Grey Man/Anti-Grey Man threads by about a year.
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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by MDCCLXXVI » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:22 pm

BullOnParade wrote:Can you stop bringing up following the guy home and looting his supplies? K, thanks.

You missed the Grey Man/Anti-Grey Man threads by about a year.

Sorry, I don't spend much time on Internet forums.

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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:44 pm

MDCCLXXVI wrote: C) Bad intentions: Follow the guy home, and remember his address in case I want/need to acquire some gear/food/etc in the future.
I sincerely hope you don't try B or C with me or the more than 20 million combat-hardened vets, much less any of the cops or well-trained civilians who dress this way.

As a matter of fact, based on number three I think you need to leave. Now.
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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by TDW586 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:49 pm

Oh, we're doing this one again? Cool, this should be productive.

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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by Redeyes » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:51 pm

I live in Georgia not far away from Fort Gordon.
1. Military style packs/clothing/etc. either means you are military (in which case you are probably wearing the full set with insignia) or you are homeless. An obviously well to do person with a military style pack probably got tired of his school backpacks falling apart on him.

2. Everybody and their Mom has a clip knife (the Mom part wasn't a joke).

3. I haven't seen too many people with paracord bracelets. I haven't been looking for them. There are plenty of people with military style watches and various wristbands though.

4. Having bad intentions towards preppers is going to get you shot, probably more than once.
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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by by-the-throat » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:19 am

I'm going to more or less parrot ODA226 from another thread, as I often do when I am trying to sound sensible:

The thing is, by the time you are bugging out on foot with your whole life in a backpack, you are by default in the "Refugee" category.

Historically, refugees run a higher risk of being victims of property crimes, as well as the squickier crimes.

Military style rucks do not cause this problem, nor will civillian hiking gear solve it.

It's just part and parcel of being a refugee.

Personally, my plan for a foot bugout involves a lot of stealth and the much discussed and often envied but never revealed Hoosier Hidden Trails. It makes my bugout (Home to BOL) about 8 days with kids by my best estimate, which is one of the many reasons why a foot bugout is the very very very last option for me.
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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by Aim2Maim » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:32 am

http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... t=grey+man

Here is the thread you should be reading. Simple search. As has been said this topic has been beaten to death.
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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by aus.templar » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:40 am

My take on the balancing act.

Grey man during an emergency or catastrophic situation. Overt in a Without-Rule of Law/PAW scenario.

My main reason for this is that, particularly in my country. Police will be looking to disarm everyone, and we're not allowed to carry any sized blade without a lawful excuse such as employment. Basically I want to look like every other headless chicken running home in the grips of a disaster.

In a PAW, I'm going overt. Hard target style
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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by Silent Kube » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:24 am

I'll skip the "not this shit again" comment and go rift to my .02

The average person be they criminal or otherwise just isn't that observant. Even among those that are, most won't identify a hat with a Velcro patch or a molle backpack as anything more than a hat or backpack. As for a paracord bracelet, high school girls wear them around here. As for cops, I hate to say it but I grew up around the. And most of them just aren't as savvy as we would like to believe. Not knocking them. I love cops but most of them don't spend their free time surfing gun forums or lusting after gear. Sure, a full lbv or some such might draw attention but quite a few college kids use molle packs just for the durability. Also, I would like to think that in an emergency any Leos would have more important things to do than hassle someone who isn't causing any trouble just because of the kind of backpack he's wearing. I walk to work with my molle pack every night and not one person has even seemed to notice. Hell, OC is legal here and although I don't do it often, I have done it and even had long conversations with people without them glancing at my belt once.

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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by Whoofit » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:41 am

All I have to add is this.
What makes you think you will see me coming at all?
If you are close enough to identify what I'm wearing for gear then I have failed from the onset....
The presence, or lack of, webbing would be a non-issue.
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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by aus.templar » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:00 am

Whoofit wrote:All I have to add is this.
What makes you think you will see me coming at all?
If you are close enough to identify what I'm wearing for gear then I have failed from the onset....
The presence, or lack of, webbing would be a non-issue.


Step back ladies... we've got a tier 4 ninja up in this bitch
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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by Whoofit » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:09 am

aus.templar wrote:
Whoofit wrote:All I have to add is this.
What makes you think you will see me coming at all?
If you are close enough to identify what I'm wearing for gear then I have failed from the onset....
The presence, or lack of, webbing would be a non-issue.


Step back ladies... we've got a tier 4 ninja up in this bitch
How's it feel? Is it everything you hoped it would be?...heh
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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by polliedes » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:27 am

Silent Kube wrote:I'll skip the "not this shit again" comment and go rift to my .02

The average person be they criminal or otherwise just isn't that observant. Even among those that are, most won't identify a hat with a Velcro patch or a molle backpack as anything more than a hat or backpack. As for a paracord bracelet, high school girls wear them around here. As for cops, I hate to say it but I grew up around the. And most of them just aren't as savvy as we would like to believe. Not knocking them. I love cops but most of them don't spend their free time surfing gun forums or lusting after gear. Sure, a full lbv or some such might draw attention but quite a few college kids use molle packs just for the durability. Also, I would like to think that in an emergency any Leos would have more important things to do than hassle someone who isn't causing any trouble just because of the kind of backpack he's wearing. I walk to work with my molle pack every night and not one person has even seemed to notice. Hell, OC is legal here and although I don't do it often, I have done it and even had long conversations with people without them glancing at my belt once.

Okay, I've said my piece. Flame away.
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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by ODA 226 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:33 am

Aim2Maim wrote:http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... t=grey+man

Here is the thread you should be reading. Simple search. As has been said this topic has been beaten to death.
THIS IS THE THREAD YOU SHOULD BE READING...and yes, you are about 1.5 years late to the party.

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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by 74 or more » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:37 am

MDCCLXXVI wrote:If I was so inclined and I wanted to score a cache of goodies or a firearm or two, I'd have followed him home, cased his home for a few days and then when no one was home would have forced entry and appropriated much of his gear, maybe even helping myself to his (obviously) well-stocked pantry. Odds are there'd be well over $10,000 worth of goodies in there.
You would follow someone home, keep watch for a few days, and break in just because you saw them at a gun show with a cool backpack, some 5.11 pants, and a pocket knife?
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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by offcamber » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:29 am

MDCCLXXVI wrote:If I was so inclined and I wanted to score a cache of goodies or a firearm or two, I'd have followed him home, cased his home for a few days and then when no one was home would have forced entry and appropriated much of his gear, maybe even helping myself to his (obviously) well-stocked pantry. Odds are there'd be well over $10,000 worth of goodies in there.
I read this not so much as a "beware this could happen to you" scenario, but more as "this is my plan" scenario.. a sideways discussion on thievery/looting.

I've said this a bunch of times in previous threads. Where I live everyone wears camo and combat boots.. follow them home and you will probably end up at someones trailer.. followed by a gunshot, then a slow drag to a hole on the back side of their hill.

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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by DarkGhost » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:49 am

In b4 lock ...

Illegal activities are frowned upon here...

OP, the grey man thread has good info...

I agree with Doc, be careful who you "follow" home, you just might catch something weighted, traveling at 1450 FPS... :mrgreen:
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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by zxcv789 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:27 am

I feel like saying something, even though I'm new to ZS...

I totally understand that it's against forum rules to talk about illegal activities, and I personally winced reading about the idea of following someone home. So, I'm not standing up for that kind of activity.

What made me want to say something is how the seasoned members jumped down this guy's throat. This topic was beaten to death a year and a half ago? Are former posts legalized documents that shouldn't be expounded upon? What if someone's opinion had changed during that year and a half? What if someone had something new and insightful to add?

I realize there is a wealth of information on this site, and it's amazing how much I've learned since signing up. My $0.02 is: maybe instead of telling someone how lame they are for not reading a 30-40 page thread, perhaps reference it for their information, then consider whether or not your own opinion has changed.

As for the people who sign up to throw down a paragraph in all-caps with no punctuation concerning their plans to loot a grocery store...yeah, I don't feel as inclined to be pleasant about that sort of thing. There are rules, but maybe we should all be nicer about telling people they missed the first discussion of a topic...

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Re: Tacticool BOBs are OPSEC breach

Post by Chirpy » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:28 am

Beating the greasy spot on the sidewalk where the dead horse used to be...
"And I prep not because I'm scared of someone coming to take from me, but rather because I fear not being able to render help to those who have helped me. "

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