New Tolkein

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MPMalloy
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New Tolkein

Post by MPMalloy » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:40 pm

From the ABC (down under) website:
Tolkien book Beren and Luthiens published after 100 years Updated about 9 hours ago

A new novel by Lord of the Rings author JRR Tolkien, prompted in part by the horrors he witnessed in World War One, has been published a century after it was first written.

Beren and Luthien is about the fate of two characters — a mortal man and an immortal elf — taken from Tolkien's fictional world, Middle Earth.

The story centres on a series of daunting quests and forbidden love, as the lovers together try to steal from the greatest of all evil beings, Melkor.

It was edited by his son Christopher Tolkien, who is now 92, and contains versions of a tale that became part of The Silmarillion.

Written after the British author came back from France in 1916, the book served as an "exorcism" of the appalling experiences he had on the battlefields of WWI, Tolkien scholar John Garth said.

"When he came back from the trenches, with trench fever, he spent the winter [of 1916-1917] convalescing," Mr Garth told the BBC.

"He'd lost two of his dearest friends on the Somme and you can imagine he must have been inside as much of a wreck as he was physically."

The book's illustrations are by Alan Lee, who won an Academy Award for work on Peter Jackson's film adaption of the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Those books have sold over 150 million copies worldwide, while the Lord of the Rings films have grossed over $1 billion altogether.

Tolkien died in 1973 at age 81.

The names Beren and Lúthien are carved on the gravestone Tolkien and his wife share in Wolvercote cemetery in Oxford

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Re: New Tolkein

Post by Ellywick » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:11 pm

I always struggle so much when someone wants to publish and finish/re-edit any author's works after they pass away. I know Christopher probably means well and I get that as Tolkien's son, he probably did have many talks with his father about his work, but it is never going to be as the author originally intended. So what is the point? Especially when the story has already been told in the Silmarillion?

The only time I felt like this was appropriate was when Robert Jordan knew that he was dying and "trained" Brandon Sanderson for several years to finish The Wheel of Time series for him.

All of this being said *loud sigh* Beren and Luthien is one of my favorite Tolkien stories and Alan Lee is one of my favorite modern illustrators...so either I will get it for myself or someone will end up giving it to me at some point.
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Re: New Tolkein

Post by MPMalloy » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:15 pm

I read The Hobbit in high school, but I couldn't get into any other Tolkein. Never saw the movies. Were they true to the books?

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Re: New Tolkein

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:42 pm

MPMalloy wrote:I read The Hobbit in high school, but I couldn't get into any other Tolkein. Never saw the movies. Were they true to the books?
No.
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Re: New Tolkein

Post by yossarian » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:30 pm

Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:I read The Hobbit in high school, but I couldn't get into any other Tolkein. Never saw the movies. Were they true to the books?
No.


He somehow managed to absolutely nail it in some parts and completely jump the Orc, so to speak, in many other places.
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Re: New Tolkein

Post by Ellywick » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:40 pm

Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:I read The Hobbit in high school, but I couldn't get into any other Tolkein. Never saw the movies. Were they true to the books?
No.
LOL, Hiro. :lol: I won't be quite as brief, but will try not to get on a soapbox. The LoTR movies (Fellowship, Two Towers, Return of the King), although they changed some things and were waaaaaaaay longer than they needed to be, overall kept the spirit of the stories and all the important parts (Sorry, Tom Bombadil fans, but he really isn't important at ALL to the story and I get why they cut that part out).

In fact, the movies ended up be more accurate than Jackson originally intended as 1) The studio let him make one movie per book instead of the one or two movies he had originally planned to squish it all in, and 2) Liv Tyler read the books before the movies and refused to be in the movie if Jackson combined the two biggest female characters (Arwen and Eowyn), which would have been total blasphemy.

That being said, Jackson's version of the Hobbit took up three movies to cover ONE small volume. He made it bloated and added in a bunch of plot lines and characters that weren't in the book at all. I couldn't watch them because that sort of things drives me bonkers and just feels like a search for more money.

They're cheesy, but I honestly love the 1970's/1980 Bass Rankin versions of the books :D
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Re: New Tolkein

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:12 am

Ellywick wrote:
Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:I read The Hobbit in high school, but I couldn't get into any other Tolkein. Never saw the movies. Were they true to the books?
No.
LOL, Hiro. :lol: I won't be quite as brief, but will try not to get on a soapbox. The LoTR movies (Fellowship, Two Towers, Return of the King), although they changed some things and were waaaaaaaay longer than they needed to be, overall kept the spirit of the stories and all the important parts (Sorry, Tom Bombadil fans, but he really isn't important at ALL to the story and I get why they cut that part out).

In fact, the movies ended up be more accurate than Jackson originally intended as 1) The studio let him make one movie per book instead of the one or two movies he had originally planned to squish it all in, and 2) Liv Tyler read the books before the movies and refused to be in the movie if Jackson combined the two biggest female characters (Arwen and Eowyn), which would have been total blasphemy.

That being said, Jackson's version of the Hobbit took up three movies to cover ONE small volume. He made it bloated and added in a bunch of plot lines and characters that weren't in the book at all. I couldn't watch them because that sort of things drives me bonkers and just feels like a search for more money.

They're cheesy, but I honestly love the 1970's/1980 Bass Rankin versions of the books :D
I chose to be Laconic in my response so as to avoid getting on a soap box. But Elly's and yoss' responses are correct.
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Re: New Tolkein

Post by flybynight » Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:33 am

Ellywick wrote:
Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:I read The Hobbit in high school, but I couldn't get into any other Tolkein. Never saw the movies. Were they true to the books?
No.
LOL, Hiro. :lol: I won't be quite as brief, but will try not to get on a soapbox. The LoTR movies (Fellowship, Two Towers, Return of the King), although they changed some things and were waaaaaaaay longer than they needed to be, overall kept the spirit of the stories and all the important parts (Sorry, Tom Bombadil fans, but he really isn't important at ALL to the story and I get why they cut that part out).

In fact, the movies ended up be more accurate than Jackson originally intended as 1) The studio let him make one movie per book instead of the one or two movies he had originally planned to squish it all in, and 2) Liv Tyler read the books before the movies and refused to be in the movie if Jackson combined the two biggest female characters (Arwen and Eowyn), which would have been total blasphemy.

That being said, Jackson's version of the Hobbit took up three movies to cover ONE small volume. He made it bloated and added in a bunch of plot lines and characters that weren't in the book at all. I couldn't watch them because that sort of things drives me bonkers and just feels like a search for more money.

They're cheesy, but I honestly love the 1970's/1980 Bass Rankin versions of the books :D
TOOO Long? No they were just Hollywooded up. He entirely missed the central themes of the book.

Tom Bombadil is a perfect example. " 'Tom went up to the mound, and looked through the treasures...For each of the hobbits he chose a dagger, long, leaf-shaped, and keen, of marvellous workmanship, damasked with serpent-forms in red and gold. They gleamed as he drew them from their black sheaths, wrought of some strange metal, light and strong, and set with many fiery stones... the blades seemed untouched by time, unrusted... 'Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, or far away into dark and danger.'

" So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dûnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will."

Someday, someone will do a movie of the story right...... Or Not.
As of now I bet you got me wrong

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Re: New Tolkein

Post by woodsghost » Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:45 am

I, for one, am totally stoked!!!!

LOTR is one of the reasons I prep. One never knows when they will cross a band of Orks, or 13 Dwarvs and a crazy wizard will show up at your door. Stuff happens.

Dead on Ellywick. Nice analysis.

I feel the original 3 were rather well done, and the extended editions were even better. The Hobbit movies were too long. I think a lot was put in them to take advantage of the 3D fad at the time. I think in the first three, action was there to serve the needs of the story. The Hobbit showcased "action for the sake of action and new technology."

I love The Silmarillion and one of my favorite stories of all time is Beren and Luthien. I love what they did with Children of Hurin, so I"m not worried about the book. I"m not really worried about the movie, yet. Time will tell, but Star Wars has given me way more anxiety than LOTR ever has. The Hobbit could have been better, but it was not really bad, IMO.

flybynight, that is a great quote! That is some seriously good stuff.
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Re: New Tolkein

Post by Asymetryczna » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:06 pm

Love the books. For years, I used to read The Hobbit and the Trilogy every year between turkey day and Christmas. Had a pint in the very pub seats Tolkien and Lewis liked when I lived in Oxford. Gotta admit, I loved the movies too, especially Return of the King. Yeah, there are many discrepancies but the balrog was even more demonic than I had imagined and Gollum was as annoying as in the book. Three movies to make the Hobbit was too much, admittedly, but if I need something to brighten my mood I can go to youtube, put on headphones and type these words: "Did you hear that lads; he said we'll blunt the knives."

If I need a bit of motivation, I can watch Théoden give his speech:

Theoden: Eomer. Take your Èored down the left flank. Gamling, follow the King's banner down the center. Grimbold, take your company right, after you pass the wall. Forth, and fear no darkness! Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Spears shall be shaken, shields shall be splintered! A sword day... a red day... ere the sun rises!
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

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Re: New Tolkein

Post by flybynight » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:15 pm

Asymetryczna wrote:Love the books. For years, I used to read The Hobbit and the Trilogy every year between turkey day and Christmas. Had a pint in the very pub seats Tolkien and Lewis liked when I lived in Oxford. Gotta admit, I loved the movies too, especially Return of the King. Yeah, there are many discrepancies but the balrog was even more demonic than I had imagined and Gollum was as annoying as in the book. Three movies to make the Hobbit was too much, admittedly, but if I need something to brighten my mood I can go to youtube, put on headphones and type these words: "Did you hear that lads; he said we'll blunt the knives."

If I need a bit of motivation, I can watch Théoden give his speech:

Theoden: Eomer. Take your Èored down the left flank. Gamling, follow the King's banner down the center. Grimbold, take your company right, after you pass the wall. Forth, and fear no darkness! Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Spears shall be shaken, shields shall be splintered! A sword day... a red day... ere the sun rises!
I've read LOTR every spring for 43 years. The battle of Pellanor fields is my favorite part in the whole book. The movie paled by comparison of the descriptions in the book.

" After a while the king led his men away somewhat eastward, to come between the fires of the siege and the outer fields. Still they were unchallenged, and still Théoden gave no signal. At last he halted once again. The City was now nearer. A smell of burning was in the air and a very shadow of death. The horses were uneasy.
But the king sat upon Snowmane, motionless, gazing upon the agony of Minas Tirith, as if stricken suddenly by anguish, or by dread. He seemed to shrink down, cowed by age. Merry himself felt as if a great weight of horror and doubt had settled on him. His heart beat slowly. Time seemed poised in uncertainty. They were too late! Too late was worse than never!
Perhaps Théoden would quail, bow his old head, turn, slink away to hide in the hills. Then suddenly Merry felt it at last, beyond doubt: a change. Wind was in his face! Light was glimmering.
Far, far away, in the South the clouds could be dimly seen as remote grey shapes, rolling up, drifting: morning lay beyond them.
But at that same moment there was a flash, as if lightning had sprung from the earth beneath the City. For a searing second it stood dazzling far off in black and white, its topmost tower like a glittering needle; and then as the darkness closed again there came rolling over the fields a great boom.
At that sound the bent shape of the king sprang suddenly erect. Tall and proud he seemed again; and rising in his stirrups he cried in a loud voice, more clear than any there had ever heard a mortal man achieve before:
Arise, arise, Riders of Théoden!
Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter!
spear shall be shaken, shield be splintered,
a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!

With that he seized a great horn from Guthláf his banner-bearer, and he blew such a blast upon it that it burst asunder. And straightway all the horns in the host were lifted up in music, and the blowing of the horns of Rohan in that hour was like a storm upon the plain and a thunder in the mountains.
Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!
Suddenly the king cried to Snowmane and the horse sprang away. Behind him his banner blew in the wind, white horse upon a field of green, but he outpaced it. After him thundered the knights of his house, but he was ever before them.
Éomer rode there, the white horsetail on his helm floating in his speed, and the front of the first éored roared like a breaker foaming to the shore, but Théoden could not be overtaken. Fey he seemed, or the battle-fury of his fathers ran like new fire in his veins, and he was borne up on Snowmane like a god of old, even as Oromë the Great in the battle of the Valar when the world was young. His golden shield was uncovered,and lo! it shone like an image of the Sun, and the grass flamed into green about the white feet of his steed.
For morning came, morning and a wind from the sea; and darkness was removed, and the hosts of Mordor wailed, and terror took them, and they fled, and died, and the hoofs of wrath rode over them.


J.R.R. Tolkien. The Lord of the Rings (pp. 837-838). Harper Collins, Inc.. Kindle Edition.
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Re: New Tolkein

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:28 pm

This is so cool. Thank you everyone for posting!

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Re: New Tolkein

Post by teotwaki » Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:32 pm

Way back when I read the Hobbit, then the Ring series and then made a huge mistake...

Image

Laughed my butt off.


As for the boggies of the Sty, with whom we are chiefly concerned, they are unusually drab,
dressing in shiny gray suits with narrow lapels, alpine hats, and string ties. They wear no shoes, and they walk
on a pair of hairy blunt instruments which can only be called feet because of the position they occupy at the end of
their legs. Their faces have a pimply malevolence that suggests a deep-seated fondness for making obscene
telephone calls, and when they smile, there is something in the way they wag their foot-long tongues that makes Komodo
dragons gulp with disbelief. They have long, clever fingers of the sort one normally associates with hands that spend
a good deal of time around the necks of small, furry animals and in other people's pockets, and they are very
skillful at producing intricate and useful things, like loaded dice and booby traps. They love to eat and drink, play
mumblety-peg with dim-witted quadrupeds, and tell off-color dwarf jokes. They give dull parties and cheap
presents, and they enjoy the same general regard and esteem as a dead otter.



"Tolkien's three-doorstep magnum opus is boiled down to a couple of hundred pages, with the main characters reinvented as a fairly grimy, down-at-heel set, the simple hobbits of the Shire transformed into greedy, smelly Boggies. Their names reference largely American or long-forgotten brands and slang – Frodo becomes Frito (a brand of crisps, or chips in the States), Gandalf is Goodgulf (petrol), Pippin and Merry become Pepsi and Moxie – soft-drinks.
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Others are more obvious and perhaps cringeworthy. Legolas the elf is Legolam, Gollum is Goddam and Bilbo Baggins, of course, becomes Dildo Bugger. Most inspired is folky hero Tom Bombadil's transformation into Leary-esque acid casualty Tim Benzedrine."
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Re: New Tolkein

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:50 pm

Bored of The Rings is a classic!
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Re: New Tolkein

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:04 pm

Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:Bored of The Rings is a classic!
Hiro! What'cha doin for the weekend?

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Re: New Tolkein

Post by Ellywick » Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:09 am

woodsghost wrote:I, for one, am totally stoked!!!!

LOTR is one of the reasons I prep. One never knows when they will cross a band of Orks, or 13 Dwarvs and a crazy wizard will show up at your door. Stuff happens.

Dead on Ellywick. Nice analysis.

I feel the original 3 were rather well done, and the extended editions were even better. The Hobbit movies were too long. I think a lot was put in them to take advantage of the 3D fad at the time. I think in the first three, action was there to serve the needs of the story. The Hobbit showcased "action for the sake of action and new technology."

I love The Silmarillion and one of my favorite stories of all time is Beren and Luthien. I love what they did with Children of Hurin, so I"m not worried about the book. I"m not really worried about the movie, yet. Time will tell, but Star Wars has given me way more anxiety than LOTR ever has. The Hobbit could have been better, but it was not really bad, IMO.

flybynight, that is a great quote! That is some seriously good stuff.
Thanks! Glad to hear you liked Children of Hurin. I haven't read it yet and neither has anyone else I know. Makes me feel a little better about Beren and Luthien.

Although Beren and Luthien is my favorite story from the Silmarillion, my favorite character from all of Tolkien's works is actually Eowyn. Strong-willed, passionate, caring, and taking down impossible foes, she's a pretty kickass lady. So much cooler than Arwen, who is really just an aside in the books and a classic maiden in a white tower for Aragorn to pine over (although she is cooler in the movies).

Fun fact: Tolkien originally intended for Aragorn to marry Eowyn or for Eowyn to die fighting the Witch-King of Angmar. After her death, Aragorn would have refused to marry another and ruled alone until his death. But, then Tolkien decided that Eowyn deserved someone less grim and old, so he wrote Arwen into the books and eventually decided Eowyn would meet and fall in love with Faramir. That being said, I like Aragorn better myself.

"But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him."
"When you can't run, you crawl, and when you can't crawl..." "You find someone to carry you."

"She's tore up plenty, but she'll fly true."

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Re: New Tolkein

Post by 91Eunozs » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:25 am

Thanks for this...in need of a new read right now, so kismet!

I too enjoyed The Children of Húrin...more than I expected frankly, but then again I also really enjoyed the LOTR movies. I wasn't looking for anything more than entertainment with the movies though so perhaps my expectations were too low. I truly didn't expect them to align closely with the books, so was pleasantly surprised.

Regardless, looking forward to this read!
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Re: New Tolkein

Post by grennels » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:44 pm

MPMalloy wrote:I read The Hobbit in high school, but I couldn't get into any other Tolkein. Never saw the movies. Were they true to the books?


Yes.
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Re: New Tolkein

Post by flybynight » Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:09 am

grennels wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:I read The Hobbit in high school, but I couldn't get into any other Tolkein. Never saw the movies. Were they true to the books?


Yes.
If you skipped every third page while reading the book then yes it's true to the book.
There's a lot missing and a lot added not in the book.
As of now I bet you got me wrong

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Re: New Tolkein

Post by Spazzy » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:52 am

You should totally youtube "JRR Tolkien Jr Jr Robot Chicken"

just saying.
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Re: New Tolkein

Post by teotwaki » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:10 pm

Spazzy wrote:You should totally youtube "JRR Tolkien Jr Jr Robot Chicken"

just saying.

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Re: New Tolkein

Post by Asymetryczna » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:50 pm

flybynight wrote: The movie paled by comparison of the descriptions in the book.
I liked both but I agree with you here, and would almost always choose the book(s). There was a short story in "Different Seasons" by Stephen King that might be an exception. It was titled "Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption."
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

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