Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

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Re: Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

Post by Jolly Green » Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:14 pm

DannusMaximus wrote:So.... What handguns have a slide release that = huge?
I bought the GF a Baby Eagle .45, and whenever she would reload, her thumb would accidentally bump the slide release. I would call the slide release on that gun huge and sensitive.

I have since trained her not to do this, but it took a little bit to identify the problem.

Also, I believe in the gross motor movements when in an HD or purely knee-jerk defensive action. The body is moving faster than the mind and your thumb is gonna miss that lever no matter the size. Adrenaline screws everything up.
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Re: Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

Post by Matt E. » Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:26 pm

"Also, I believe in the gross motor movements when in an HD or purely knee-jerk defensive action. The body is moving faster than the mind and your thumb is gonna miss that lever no matter the size. Adrenaline screws everything up"

In this particular instance, the above has been debunked/disproved. If under stress you won't be able to hit the stop with a thumb, than you certainly won't be able to hit you mag release button with your thumb, which you have to do BEFORE you reload.
Try and cultivate and take advantage of your body's natural tendencies. Don't try and create them for yourself.
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Re: Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

Post by Jolly Green » Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:28 pm

Matt E. wrote:Try and cultivate and take advantage of your body's natural tendencies. Don't try and create them for yourself.
Sometimes you don't have that luxury. Running a Walther PPK/S as a BUG, and it does not have a slide release. If you find yourself in this position, my advice is to train the same way with every gun and that way you won't be caught off guard in the moment.
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Re: Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

Post by Matt E. » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:13 pm

The line you quoted about "cultivating" was not meant to support one specific technique but all. It's a guideline. I support all three techniques and teach all three also. But like everyone else I prefer them in order.
In this case, in response to JG, I won't gear 100% my training toward a pistol that I'll run into 1% of the time. However, as a former religious slide grabber, I'll be fine either way. The block is checked.

I already covered how I manipulate pistols without stops in my first post.
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Re: Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

Post by learntwoshoot » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:00 am

For personal proteciton it is best to practice using gross motor skills, vs using a fin motor skill like using a slide stop! :roll: Common people the proper name is "SLIDE STOP" not a slide release.
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Re: Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

Post by Dave_M » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:19 am

So uh... you just pistol whip or throw your pistol at them? :rofl:

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Re: Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

Post by Matt E. » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:41 am

Guys, Dave's point, and mine, is if you will only be able to utilize gross motor skills under stress then your action will be limited to-
-Grabbing your pistol by the butt (if you have a retention holster, you will not be able to flip a bail or push a button to get it out)
- hitting someone with it (putting your finger inside the trigger guard and squeezing is fine by definition)
- throwing it

To reload, if limited to gross skill here are your TTPs.
1) drop pistol and stomp till the mag comes out.
2) beat perp with pistol until mag comes out.

You can't have your cake and eat it to. Your thumb can't work fine doing one fine skil and not another.
There are some very good reasons to use over the top. As most weapon manipulation tasks require hands and fingers, gross vs fine motor skils are not one of them.
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Re: Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

Post by crypto » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:14 am

DannusMaximus wrote:So.... What handguns have a slide release that = huge?
I guess that all depends on your reference for comparison, honestly. If your baseline is the 1911, then nothing is huge. :crazy:

If your baseline is something modern like a glock or a M&P, then everything is huge.

I consider the stops on the 1911, my CZ-75s, and the Beretta 92 series to be "huge"

Conversely, I consider the stops on my Glocks, Sig P226/8/9 and Ruger .22's to be 'small'.

I think my P290's slide stop is 'medium-sized'.
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Re: Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

Post by Dave_M » Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:11 am

Is there a handgun out there with a larger OEM lock/release than the Hk USP? There probably is but I can't think of it
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Re: Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

Post by Dabster » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:02 pm

Dave_M wrote:Is there a handgun out there with a larger OEM lock/release than the Hk USP? There probably is but I can't think of it
I haven't measured it but the The next generation H&Ks (P30, HK45) feel like they have a bigger slide release.
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Re: Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

Post by Redeyes » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:16 am

crypto wrote:
DannusMaximus wrote:So.... What handguns have a slide release that = huge?
I guess that all depends on your reference for comparison, honestly. If your baseline is the 1911, then nothing is huge. :crazy:

If your baseline is something modern like a glock or a M&P, then everything is huge.

I consider the stops on the 1911, my CZ-75s, and the Beretta 92 series to be "huge"

Conversely, I consider the stops on my Glocks, Sig P226/8/9 and Ruger .22's to be 'small'.

I think my P290's slide stop is 'medium-sized'.
Good post. Yeah, my baseline is a Glock so most pistols have a huge slide release. I was wondering what people would do with a pistol that has a slide release like most Sigs, 1911's, HK's and Berettas if those pistols were their go to pistol. This forum may not have been the best place to ask as most people's go to's are Glock or M&P's here.

ETA Also my wording was clumsy. I swear I do better in face to face conversations.
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Re: Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

Post by Matt E. » Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:57 am

By Redeyes-
"Good post. Yeah, my baseline is a Glock so most pistols have a huge slide release. I was wondering what people would do with a pistol that has a slide release like most Sigs, 1911's, HK's and Berettas if those pistols were their go to pistol. This forum may not have been the best place to ask as most people's go to's are Glock or M&P's here."

I have carried 1911s, SIGs and HKs. As mentioned I also use Glocks and M&Ps. I'm currently teaching a class with M9s and have owned and carried several on duty and CCW.
I use the slide stop for all.
"...And you would probably wind up with one of those souvenir miniature bats, because that is the kind of thing that happens when untrained people pick out unfamiliar equipment based on what "feels" right."

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Re: Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

Post by TheLastOne » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:01 pm

Redeyes wrote:
crypto wrote:
DannusMaximus wrote:So.... What handguns have a slide release that = huge?
I guess that all depends on your reference for comparison, honestly. If your baseline is the 1911, then nothing is huge. :crazy:

If your baseline is something modern like a glock or a M&P, then everything is huge.

I consider the stops on the 1911, my CZ-75s, and the Beretta 92 series to be "huge"

Conversely, I consider the stops on my Glocks, Sig P226/8/9 and Ruger .22's to be 'small'.

I think my P290's slide stop is 'medium-sized'.
Good post. Yeah, my baseline is a Glock so most pistols have a huge slide release. I was wondering what people would do with a pistol that has a slide release like most Sigs, 1911's, HK's and Berettas if those pistols were their go to pistol. This forum may not have been the best place to ask as most people's go to's are Glock or M&P's here.

ETA Also my wording was clumsy. I swear I do better in face to face conversations.
I carry glocks and sigs (lately sig, until I get bored, then glock rinse/repeat). For the times that the slide doesn't go forward on it's own during mag insert, I think I mostly do slide stop as I'm bringing the sights back up... I think when I'm doing reloads in a non-pressure no time limit type range day I tend to do overhand. If I'm wearing gloves I do overhand. If I'm barehanded I think I tend to slide stop. I'd guess that my slide stops on my sigs are a little more exposed than my glocks, but I don't think I do differently based on the amount it sticks out. Soooo I guess I do whatever and haven't really thought about it. :clownshoes: #nothelpful

I know in most classes I've done the lean has been more towards overhand, but the different instructors also have seemed to be inclined to not make a big deal about it and just want you to do whatever it takes to get the gun back in the fight.
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Re: Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

Post by Kutter_0311 » Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:53 am

When I first had to Qual with the M9 #hatethatpistol I started using my support hand to release the slid stop as it re-wrapped around my firing hand after inserting the new mag. It meant I wasn't shifting the grip of my firing hand, and felt fast. I still do this a lot on my G35's and other guns.

I bounce around a lot tho, can't say I stick with just one method. Whatever works at the time.

Just don't get stuck trying to make one work that won't, whatever the reason.

Train all methods enough to get one of them right.
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Re: Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

Post by eeb » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:38 am

learntwoshoot wrote:For personal proteciton it is best to practice using gross motor skills, vs using a fin motor skill like using a slide stop! :roll: Common people the proper name is "SLIDE STOP" not a slide release.
Well, if we're going to get technical, I believe you mean "Come on, people,...", rather than "Common".

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Re: Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

Post by Mikeyboy » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:39 am

Ironic that this 6 month old thread was necro'ed.

I bitched about Center Axis Relock shooting stance on another thread, and I have a pet peeve with thumbs up high pistol grip as well.

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I am just not a big fan of new fangled "systems" that think having your fingers or body close against the moving slide of a pistol is a good thing.

The best example of that was a guy on youtube a few years back (I think it was GunWebsites) videotaping himself shooting .380 pocket guns at a range and complaining that they are all jam-o-matics and don't function as well as full sized pistols. "Look this one jams, that one jams, this one gives you slide bite, this one has a slide hold open on the last round but it only works half the time." Everyone commented that he seemed to be holding the pistols "funny" with his thumbs point up instead of out and his thumbs were resting too close to the slide and slide lock, and that this was causing the malfunction. He blurted back that he had tons of experience and professional training. That is the first time I seen the "Thumb up high" grip, and since then if I see a gun review and the guy uses that grip, I take his review and any mention of jams with a grain of salt.

Maybe you can drive a car straighter on the highway if you move your seat all the way forward, with your forehead close to the windshield and keeping your chin hovering just above the steering wheel....but its not the safest or smartest way to drive.

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Re: Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

Post by eeb » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:24 am

If it hasn't gone at least half a decade without a post, it isn't really necro'd, IMO.

I hadn't dealt much with the "thumbs high" discipline of pistol manipulation, but as a general rule I try to keep my fingers away from the moving bits on machinery I'm operating.
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Re: Slide release vs overhand rack WITH A HUGE SLIDE RELEASE

Post by Das Sheep » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:58 pm

I am guilty of using the slide release a lot in the range and practice, but my training has always told me to rack it, because its quick and hard to mess up, gross motor skills and all.

Some guns have easier slide releases than others. Some slide releases seem like you need a TON of thumb strength to work them.

So I guess my answer is I think you should rack it, even if I cheat and use the release sometimes.

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