Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by argyre » Wed May 30, 2012 5:11 pm

Years ago, I was reading some vintage of U.S. Air Force Survival manual for Air Crews, dealing with the Arctic.

They had VERY specific advice with regards to dealing with polar bears.
It was strongly suggested to avoid them at all costs, and if that was unavoidable, to not attempt to shoot one with anything less than a .50 BMG.

(It was a '50's or '60's vintage manual, but I suspect the advice is still good, in spite of the rise in the power and variety of extreme hand gun loads.)

On the flip side, a few years ago a pal requested that we teach him specifically how to shoot, using a 12 gauge pump, with slugs, and a Mauser bolt action.

Turned out he and his family were going on a sailing cruise of the islands north of the Scandinavia, and the charter companies required ALL groups that did this to have at least one person on board who was familiar with both of these, or they would refuse the charter.

Because in those islands, the polar bear IS the apex predator. In peaceful, ultra liberal Scandinavia, where firearms are pretty thoroughly controlled, you can wander into a cafe in this region and find folks with seriously large caliber handguns, holstered on their hips. Just in case.

Since they clearly seem to think that the 12 ga. slug, the venerable Mauser, or some handguns are adequate, maybe the Air Force was overly cautious.

But if I were faced with polar bear, or a grizzly, or Kodiak, I would prefer a multi-round .50.
As it is (I live in California, and did not buy any .50's prior to the ban), I will have to settle for my Weatherby .300 Magnum, and keep some Nosler partition tips around for such eventualities.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by squinty » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:53 pm

Get a gun that works underwater.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... VmpxJz6pCw#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;!
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by Stercutus » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:16 pm

I am less sure that ursus maritimus will work its way this far South. If it does with violent intent are all pretty much done for. That animal can swim 40 miles through freezing salt water to catch its prey and weighs in at around 2000 pounds. Just to give you an idea of scale here they are relative to each other:

Image

However a little known secret is that polar bears love humans. Here are some peacefully swimming with human children. They are much like dolphins in that they eat fish but will protect humans from other predators when they encounter them swimming in the water.

Image

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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by grennels » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:36 pm

So---

Those are your kids?
Shot 'em, now I'm gonna hang 'em, then I'm gonna burn 'em!
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by AKFTW » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:28 am

docdredd wrote:those pandas need to harden the fuck up
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by squinty » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:11 am

Get serious AKFTW. The name of the rifle clearly indicates that it is for Lynx, not bear.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by Brandr » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:18 am

Blacksmith wrote:I am worried in the PAW that bears will wander down into my area looking to make me or my family into a bear snack here in the deep South. The law requires that I conceal carry (I have permit) but I am unsure what gun and round would best serve to provide the best protection for me and my loved ones.

My options that I consider workable are:

On Hand:

- 1911 in .45 ACP (Now these are Kimbers so without factory service they will likely break in a few months of constant use in the PAW)
- Glock 22 (The .40 being marginal for people would likely be completely unsuited for bears)


Are you planning to use the Kimbers as Hammers? Otherwise I see NO way your going to break the frame.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by squinty » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:26 am

Brandr wrote:

Are you planning to use the Kimbers as Hammers?
Why not? I hear they are real tack drivers.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by Stercutus » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:31 am

Brandr wrote: Are you planning to use the Kimbers as Hammers? Otherwise I see NO way your going to break the frame.
I figure between the bears and the constant warfare with looters I will be shooting several hundred rounds per day. I know a USGI Singer 1911 can stand up to the level of use but I am not so sure about aftermarket guns on the civilian market.

More proof that polar bears are our friends. Here is one rescuing a drowning woman after she fell into some water:

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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by squinty » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:51 pm

Blacksmith wrote:
Brandr wrote: Are you planning to use the Kimbers as Hammers? Otherwise I see NO way your going to break the frame.
I figure between the bears and the constant warfare with looters I will be shooting several hundred rounds per day. I know a USGI Singer 1911 can stand up to the level of use but I am not so sure about aftermarket guns on the civilian market.

More proof that polar bears are our friends. Here is one rescuing a drowning woman after she fell into some water:

Image
Look at how grateful she is. Mouth wide open yelling "thank you, Mr. Polar bear!"
Heartwarming.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by Mbelasko12 » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:50 pm

Op could go with a .45-70 revolver http://www.magnumresearch.com/Firearms/ ... Barrel.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by Manimal2878 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:08 am

I have a friend that moved to Alaska about a year ago. I'm planning to visit and go camping this August.

He told me that in regards to bears, the general consensus is that bear spray is more effective than shooting them, especially with anything you could comfortably carry backpacking. Not only that, but within city limits you are not allowed to harm them, so bear spray is the only legally viable defense.

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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by huntingohio » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:48 pm

I have an honest question are you being serious????

100s or rounds a day? constant warfare? This isnt the sandox or anything, we dont have trained malitias laying around just waiting for a major disaster to spring up and loot.

A 1911 and a 255gr hardcast lswc bullet will punch through the thickest part of a bulls skull and out the other side.. so im sure a bears skull will be easily penetrated. Even if it isnt it will likely create a depressed skull fracture, causing death nearly instantly.

If your really worried my advice is to get a 12 gauge pump action with a folding stock and good sling. Place a 16 1/2 inch slug barrel on it and load it with deer slugs. Your average slug is a one ounce hunk of lead, its kinda like hitting the with sledge hammer. they are accurate enough out to 100yds.

fwiw i carry a 1911, and dont feel undergunned.

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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by RickOShea » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:20 pm

huntingohio wrote:
If your really worried my advice is to get a 12 gauge pump action with a folding stock and good sling. Place a 16 1/2 inch slug barrel on it and load it with deer slugs. Your average slug is a one ounce hunk of lead, its kinda like hitting the with sledge hammer. they are accurate enough out to 100yds.

I don't know about Ohio, but I believe that if you put a sub 18" barrel on a Mossberg 500 (without the NFA paperwork) here in 'Bama, it's a trip to the booty pen for you.

Also, a pistol grip folding stock on a Mossberg makes it harder to manipulate the tang safety.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by squinty » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:32 pm

huntingohio wrote:I have an honest question are you being serious????
Deadly. Haven't you read the thread?
huntingohio wrote:100s or rounds a day? constant warfare? This isnt the sandox or anything, we dont have trained malitias laying around just waiting for a major disaster to spring up and loot.
But it's the PAW. OP is worried about PAW-bears.
huntingohio wrote:A 1911 and a 255gr hardcast lswc bullet will punch through the thickest part of a bulls skull and out the other side.. so im sure a bears skull will be easily penetrated. Even if it isnt it will likely create a depressed skull fracture, causing death nearly instantly.
Not an experienced hunter, but I'm not so sure about the depressed skull fracture = instant death. There was actually a PDF linked earlier in the thread that studied the ballistics of various anti-bear rounds. If you're looking for serious.
huntingohio wrote:If your really worried my advice is to get a 12 gauge pump action with a folding stock and good sling. Place a 16 1/2 inch slug barrel on it and load it with deer slugs. Your average slug is a one ounce hunk of lead, its kinda like hitting the with sledge hammer. they are accurate enough out to 100yds.

Superior to any handgun round, I'm sure. I'm also sure you meant 18" barrel. Never met a folding stock I liked, but found a 18" 870 with the original factory stock was pretty convenient to carry around. I never got a rifled barrel for it.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by NamelessStain » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:35 pm

Bears... pfft

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahti_L-39" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by squinty » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:54 pm

NamelessStain wrote:Bears... pfft

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahti_L-39" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Useless against bears. Everyone knows bears don't drive tanks, though Rick O' Shea was almost run over by a bear on a fourwheeler.
Still, a Finnish gun nicknamed "Norsupyssy?" I had to reread that three times.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by huntingohio » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:55 pm

RickOShea wrote:
huntingohio wrote:
If your really worried my advice is to get a 12 gauge pump action with a folding stock and good sling. Place a 16 1/2 inch slug barrel on it and load it with deer slugs. Your average slug is a one ounce hunk of lead, its kinda like hitting the with sledge hammer. they are accurate enough out to 100yds.

I don't know about Ohio, but I believe that if you put a sub 18" barrel on a Mossberg 500 (without the NFA paperwork) here in 'Bama, it's a trip to the booty pen for you.

Also, a pistol grip folding stock on a Mossberg makes it harder to manipulate the tang safety.

D'oh you caught me i meant 18 inch, been tinkering with my brush rifle and had rifle on the brain.
and as far as folding stocks No they arent at all good for serious hunting use, but if in bear coutry i do have one of the wire folders, it leaves the safety un covered. Before you ask it dosnt have a makes stamp on it so i dont know who it is

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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by RickOShea » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:31 pm

Some Canadian Search & Rescue teams use a Ruger M77 in .30-06 with a 14" barrel and a blaze orange stock:

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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by Stercutus » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:47 pm

I admit the idea of gun with skis instead of a bipod/ tripod arrangement appeals to me down South where it tends to snow every couple of years. Owning a gun named after Starbucks coffee, not so much.

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Also shotguns might work well but I have seen dogs take multiple buckshot hits at close range and live so I am not considering a shotgun at this time.
A 1911 and a 255gr hardcast lswc bullet will punch through the thickest part of a bulls skull and out the other side.. so im sure a bears skull will be easily penetrated.
Might. Then again it might skid off the top and just make the bear mad. I need something that is certain.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by Kutter_0311 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:56 am

Blacksmith wrote:Also shotguns might work well but I have seen dogs take multiple buckshot hits at close range and live so I am not considering a shotgun at this time.
Slugs. That'll fix the fuckers :crazy:

I'm still too tempted to just go with .50 BMG like the AF book states. Wonder if you could rent some of these guys?

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Just not the pansy on the right, he looks like ^he's^ having trouble with that rifle. Or his impure thoughts about the big stud up front...
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by jeremy1391 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:02 am

go with a 12 gauge with some 3" magnum slugs call it good I don't know about you but I'm not bringing a pistol to a bear fight.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by squinty » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:20 am

jeremy1391 wrote:go with a 12 gauge with some 3" magnum slugs call it good I don't know about you but I'm not bringing a pistol to a bear fight.
I'm bringing popcorn. It would be awesome to watch two bears fight.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by Stercutus » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:33 am

Image
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

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