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Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:44 pm
by AKFTW
TDW586 wrote:For carry, I'm planning to buy a G17 and cut the grip to G19 length, that'll be the beginning of my switch to 9mm.

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Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:46 pm
by azstinger
TDW586 wrote:I am very happy with my SIG P220 .45 ACP, and I may try an FNP45 at some point. For carry, I'm planning to buy a G17 and cut the grip to G19 length, that'll be the beginning of my switch to 9mm.

I'm stuck on whether to sell my G35 and buy either another 17 or a 34, or convert my G35 to 9mm.


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I am really leaning towards the the Glock 19.


Why in the world would you cut down a G17?

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:56 pm
by AKFTW
azstinger wrote:
TDW586 wrote:I am very happy with my SIG P220 .45 ACP, and I may try an FNP45 at some point. For carry, I'm planning to buy a G17 and cut the grip to G19 length, that'll be the beginning of my switch to 9mm.

I'm stuck on whether to sell my G35 and buy either another 17 or a 34, or convert my G35 to 9mm.


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I am really leaning towards the the Glock 19.


Why in the world would you cut down a G17?
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All the advantages of the 17, like the increase in velocity and accuracy due to the longer barrel and sight radius, and slightly greater slide mass for lighter felt recoil, combined with the concealability of the 19's short grip, as slide length is a non-issue when carrying IWB. The pistol balances and handles beautifully. Essentially by chopping the 17, you lose nothing, and gain a more concealable and versatile package.

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:57 pm
by TDW586
Full length sight radius and barrel, just as easy to conceal. The length of the grip is the main factor in concealability with a good holster, the barrel length means nothing.

A full size grip is just a little bulky for me to conceal, a 19 isn't. Combines the best features of the two.

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Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:21 pm
by azstinger
So how does one cut down a G17?

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:30 pm
by AKFTW
azstinger wrote:So how does one cut down a G17?
A dremel and a steady hand, finishing it up with sandpaper is how I did mine.

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:38 pm
by Kutter_0311
AKFTW wrote:
azstinger wrote:So how does one cut down a G17?
A dremel and a steady hand, finishing it up with sandpaper is how I did mine.
I always saw myself doing it on a disk sander, if I could get into the shop to do it. Clean it up with a deburring knife and some 150-grit.

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:58 pm
by AKFTW
Kutter_0311 wrote:
AKFTW wrote:
azstinger wrote:So how does one cut down a G17?
A dremel and a steady hand, finishing it up with sandpaper is how I did mine.
I always saw myself doing it on a disk sander, if I could get into the shop to do it. Clean it up with a deburring knife and some 150-grit.
I measured it next to a G19 mag and looked at some photos of ones I liked, and then made the rough cut with the cutting wheel. Sanded with the sanding drum until the mag clicked in, then sanded a little more to have some space like on factory models. Smoothed the edges out and cleaned it up with some 200 grit (i think) sandpaper, then the smooth file on my Leatherman wave. I actually used a 90s Glock 19 mag for the template, which I then found out is shorter than modern ones by a few mm, so mine will work with any Glock 19 mag. I use the slightly shorter mag as my carry mag (with a new follower).

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:01 pm
by Domino
TDW586 wrote:I currently use mainly .40 caliber Glocks. However, I am planning to switch to 9mm and .45 ACP, dropping .40 entirely except for my duty gun.

My reasons are pretty simple; I tend to shoot better with either a 9mm or a .45 ACP than with a .40. The snappier recoil of the .40 slows down my follow up shots and as my round count goes up, I tend to start anticipating recoil. I don't do that with 9mm or .45 ACP. Also, 9mm is cheaper. Overall, I think I'll be happier dropping .40.
Wise choice, I have found the same to be true. The .40 makes sense if you want only one gun but I like options myself. Glock 19 and 21 SF FTW!

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:43 am
by 400 Grains
Liff wrote:400 grains claimed "greater sectional density" of the 45 round compared to the 9mm. Hornady lists the sectional density of the 45 230 grain FMJ round as 0.162 and the sectional density of the 9mm 115 grain FMJ round as 0.130. The 9mm bullet's sectional density is 80% compared to the 45's sectional density.

http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.451-230-gr-FMJ-RN/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.hornady.com/store/9mm-.355-115-gr-FMJ-RN/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 45 ACP has a greater sectional density. About 20% greater for the ball rounds that you cite.

Argue all you want about how the SD may or may not matter, but about the "greater" claim: either Hornady is wrong or you are wrong. I vote Hornady is not wrong.
You are correct, Hornady is not wrong. Although actually, to be fair, a 147 grain 9mm does have slightly greater SD than a .45 ACP 230 grain. However, given the expansion characteristics between most 9mm HP's and most .45 HP's, in my experience, the .45's will still usually penetrate deeper than the 9's.

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:44 am
by 400 Grains
Domino wrote:Wise choice, I have found the same to be true. The .40 makes sense if you want only one gun
Why?

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:47 am
by 400 Grains
TDW586 wrote:Full length sight radius and barrel, just as easy to conceal. The length of the grip is the main factor in concealability with a good holster, the barrel length means nothing.

A full size grip is just a little bulky for me to conceal, a 19 isn't. Combines the best features of the two.
Same idea in the Commander length slides on Officer's model frames that custom gunsmiths, and then Colt and other manufacturers have assembled for years.

Glock should put that gun together and sell it.

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:55 am
by 400 Grains
AKFTW wrote:
azstinger wrote:So how does one cut down a G17?
A dremel and a steady hand, finishing it up with sandpaper is how I did mine.
Balls of steel probably help too............ :mrgreen:

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:48 am
by GunnerMax
I love my G19. I have never shot a .40, so I cannot vouch to the G23 or any other .40

Ammo at the walmart is $23 for a box of 100 Winchester FMJ 115 Grain rounds. Unbeatable price. So I go with the 9

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:10 am
by nimdabew
Either. Pick a calib er and stick with it for the long haul. I have owned one .45 ACP, no .40's and about seven 9mm's.

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:25 pm
by nathat
I carry 23 daily.

Considering your wife will be shooting this as well, I say go with the 19. She will want to practice more with it. My wife shoots my .40 pretty well, buy she doesn't want to do long practice sessions with it. I would suggest the 9 for your situation.

With that said, I still feel anytime you can make a bigger hole, it's a good idea (9mm has become amazing, but .40 and .45 still have a slight advantage due to mass, volume, and penetration). Considering the .40 is still a fast round, and makes a decent hole, I feel it is the best compramise of the bunch. People will argue this until blue in the face (or against a certian caliber) but any of the big 3 are acceptable and will do their job. Go with what you feel most comfortable with or that your wife can shoot the most.

Something to consider with .40, during the ammo crunch I could still buy 50 round boxes from the local wal-mart while .45 and 9mm were out. I didn't have to touch my stock for practice at all while my father and brother couldn't find their rounds anywhere.

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:07 pm
by 400 Grains
nathat wrote:I carry 23 daily.

Considering your wife will be shooting this as well, I say go with the 19. She will want to practice more with it. My wife shoots my .40 pretty well, buy she doesn't want to do long practice sessions with it. I would suggest the 9 for your situation.

With that said, I still feel anytime you can make a bigger hole, it's a good idea (9mm has become amazing, but .40 and .45 still have a slight advantage due to mass, volume, and penetration). Considering the .40 is still a fast round, and makes a decent hole, I feel it is the best compramise of the bunch.
.40 ball will definitely make a larger wound channel than 9mm ball. But the "hole size" and penetration depth in tissue made by the best 9mm HP's, and the best .40 HP's, are almost indistinguishable from one another. Some 9's will perform better than most .40's.
nathat wrote:People will argue this until blue in the face (or against a certian caliber) but any of the big 3 are acceptable and will do their job. Go with what you feel most comfortable with or that your wife can shoot the most.
Good advice.

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:26 pm
by nyarlotep
I love these caliber debate threads. So much chest thumping and poo-flinging :)

I went with the 19 because my friend's 23 recoiled a little snappier than I like. Ammo is cheaper, magazines are more capacious, and I don't feel I need to carry anything more to stop a BG.

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:54 pm
by azstinger
Think I'm going to go with the G19, while I'd love to do the G17 to G19 mod, don't trust myself enough.

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:12 am
by nathat
400 Grains wrote:
nathat wrote:I carry 23 daily.

Considering your wife will be shooting this as well, I say go with the 19. She will want to practice more with it. My wife shoots my .40 pretty well, buy she doesn't want to do long practice sessions with it. I would suggest the 9 for your situation.

With that said, I still feel anytime you can make a bigger hole, it's a good idea (9mm has become amazing, but .40 and .45 still have a slight advantage due to mass, volume, and penetration). Considering the .40 is still a fast round, and makes a decent hole, I feel it is the best compramise of the bunch.
.40 ball will definitely make a larger wound channel than 9mm ball. But the "hole size" and penetration depth in tissue made by the best 9mm HP's, and the best .40 HP's, are almost indistinguishable from one another. Some 9's will perform better than most .40's.
nathat wrote:People will argue this until blue in the face (or against a certian caliber) but any of the big 3 are acceptable and will do their job. Go with what you feel most comfortable with or that your wife can shoot the most.
Good advice.
I'll just say not true and leave it at that. As I said, people can argue until blue in the face, and I like my color today. We'll just agree to disagree.

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:32 pm
by rklessdriver
My experience with the 19 and 23 is pretty much the same as TDW586.

I love the G19 and thought the 23 would be just the thing... recoil on the G23 seemed a lot snappier to me. So I sold the G23 and went back to the G19.

People will always debate the caliber war. I guess they just like to do it. Fact is the 9mm is plenty effective and it keeps getting better all the time. Even thou LE use has about dried up the new Federal HST and the old standby LEO rounds (Winchester 127 RangerT and the Federal 9BPLE) are potent rounds with proven track records. No body can argue that they work when needed and what else do you really need?

As for that chopped grip G17 thing. Colt had it right along.... Folks chopping G17's = making the CCO of Glocks. :D
Will

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:43 pm
by 400 Grains
Keep the HST and SXT, lose the 9BPLE. It really wasn't as "proven" as some gunwriters claimed it was.

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:02 pm
by Z-predator
I carry the Glock 23 all day at work, it carries easy and no problems. I would go with the Glock 19 and get Glock 18 magazines. I like the 9mm becuase of recoil is light, high cap magazines, cheaper ammo, more shooting time and easy to find. Its a NATO round, like 5.56 and 7.62.

Re: Glock 19 or 23

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:11 pm
by gaijinsamurai
My first Glock was a Model 23, bought in 1993. I currently own the models 22 (full size .40), 30 (compact .45 ACP), and 19. Of the three I currently own, as well as my beloved 1911A1s, Browning Hi-Powers, and CZ75, the Glock 19 will be my "go-to" gun if SHTF. Compact, easy to shoot well, and reliable, and most importantly, 9mm is less expensive than other pistol calibers. When people ask me what they should get, what aftermarket parts or accessories are recommended, and what is best for them, I recommend the following:

1: Look at different quality pistols and choose what's best for you. Everyone's hands are different, and what's great for one person may not be suitable for another. I personally don't care for Beretta M9s, Sig-Sauers, XDs, and older S&W autos. However, if someone else likes them, I won't argue.

2: The best thing you can do is buy plenty of ammo, and practice! If you haven't had any formal training, enroll in a class or two from a qualified and competent instructor, and and keep your skills from getting rusty by practicing as often as possible.

+P ammo has given the 9mm virtually the same stopping power as a .40. The miniscule edge the .40 may have is negated by the higher cost of ammunition. Also, I found the 19 to be easier to get a quick second shot off than the 23.