Help me decide.

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BoxingGandhi
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Re: Help me decide.

Post by BoxingGandhi » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:31 pm

All right...
doc66 wrote:You really didn't say this, did you? Grip safeties, trigger safeties, thumb safeties, palm prints, voice activators, and voodoo have nothing to do with AD. The shooter and their dick grabbers have everything to do with it.
I meant the normal person paying attention. No "Plaxico Burress" reach in my pants and accidentally shoot myself (with my Glock) moment. I agree stupid people shouldn't have guns but... they will continue to purchase them. The best defense is not the safety but the training and practice.

Back to the subject at hand. Have three XD's, shoot them a lot. Never had a misfire. I think you will be VERY happy with your choice. Still remember the best gun for you is the one you practice with.
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Re: Help me decide.

Post by Morphace » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:19 am

Domino, I’m not getting the XDm for the 10 safeties. Has nothing to do with how many safeties it has. It has everything to do with my personal preference. Everyone has their preferences, and they are a lot like ass holes and opinions. Everyone has one and most stink. A lot of people are Glock people. I am not one of them. I don't. And by that I don't mean to say I think they are in any way an inferior handgun, (actually I think they are a very good handgun) it's simply a preference. I don't care for the way they feel in my hands while holding them or shooting them. When it's all said and done the XDm is the gun that "I" like, whether it was taken up by a certain group of LEO's as duty weapons or not "I" prefer it.

Caenus, that's exactly the thinking I was going with. My wife will shot a 9mm if for some reason she had to use my weapon I don't want it being different than what she's already going to be use to so I'll stick to 9mm.

I'll talk to my dads guy and see if we can get a group discount if we buy 5 or more.. lol you never know he may be fine with it.
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Re: Help me decide.

Post by thesupremeking » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:34 am

xd sub compact 40. Loved that gun and hate myself for selling it.
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Re: Help me decide.

Post by Bridget » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:46 pm

My boyfriend has the Springfield XD 40. For Christmas he bought me the XD 9mm subcompact because he was sick of me stealing his to go to the range every other day.
I love both guns, and don't experience any loss of accuracy with the subcompact. That said, I definitely prefer my SC. It fits my hands a little bit better. The extended mag helps those who have big hands, but I feel more comfortable when I use the standard mag and a teacup grip. A short grip means my left hand is still available for recoil control.
The beauty of the 9 mm is that ammo is dirt cheap compared to just about any other caliber. $20 for 100 rounds of 9 mm versus $32 for 40 means a happier girl at the range.

I looked at the XDM when I picked out my XD and really felt that the small difference in specs didn't outweigh the additional cost. I don't think my long-term happiness is affected at all by this decision.

The only negative thing I'll say is that I don't really like the stock sights, but finding an internal laser sight when I got the thing home definitely makes up for it.

Really, you can probably toss a coin and be happy with the result. But I'm going to go ahead and give preference to the XD.
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Re: Help me decide.

Post by AS556 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:37 am

doc66 wrote:Go with the 9mm. In real world shootings with modern, well designed ammunition, the .40 does nothing that the 9mm won't do these days. The niche that the .40 used to hold over the 9mm is rapidly disintegrating as new bullet designs hit the market. The 9mm also shoots flatter over distance, so your 100 yard shots are easier.

Since you have already decided on the XD, go with the longer barrel.

I wish there was a way to talk you out of it though... when it was a $250 Croatian import, it was an inexpensive buy, now that Springfield has put it's label on it, it's less of a good buy and more of an anchor in the pocket book.
BoxingGandhi wrote:... with the grip and trigger safety it would be nearly impossible to accidentally discharge the weapon...
You really didn't say this, did you? Grip safeties, trigger safeties, thumb safeties, palm prints, voice activators, and voodoo have nothing to do with AD. The shooter and their dick grabbers have everything to do with it.
Doc would you mind listing what new designs are available in 9mm that rival the .40?I ordered a Glock 26 today and am trying to decide on a defensive ammo.Probably use Gold Dots or Hornady but was curious if there were others I don't know about.Thanks.

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Re: Help me decide.

Post by 400 Grains » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:23 am

Gold Dot, Federal HST, Winchester T series and Bonded, all give up very little in 9 over .40. .40 is slightly better through barriers.

If you were working a highway patrol car, and vehicles were highly likely to be involved in your shootings, .40 might be a better choice. Other than that, the lower recoil, higher mag cap, cheaper to shoot and easier on your gun 9mm, makes more sense to me.

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Re: Help me decide.

Post by doc66 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:59 am

400 Grains wrote:Gold Dot, Federal HST, Winchester T series and Bonded, all give up very little in 9 over .40. .40 is slightly better through barriers.

If you were working a highway patrol car, and vehicles were highly likely to be involved in your shootings, .40 might be a better choice. Other than that, the lower recoil, higher mag cap, cheaper to shoot and easier on your gun 9mm, makes more sense to me.
And Gold Dot is designed specifically for shorter barreled firearms for more reliable expansion and penetration. The only one that I would add is the TAP round.
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Re: Help me decide.

Post by Tommy Tran » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:10 pm

So this is the best place for this to be said recently...
[rant]
Everyone that is new to guns goes on and on about what feels good or fits the hand and a lot of gun OWNERS will say the same... Now, as a SHOOTER I dont care what it is I will run it better than most OWNERS... you reach a point where it DOESNT MATTER how it 'feels' in your hands... when you reach this point you begin to revise your armory to things that have the least failure rate and mechanically speaking are the best including build quality, materials and layout such as ease of use, bore axis height, simplicity, parts availability, etc. So from someone who has a lot of trigger pulls under their belt, start with what the pros use and learn to love that, believe me its easier and less expensive and takes less time
[/rant]
phil_in_cs wrote:well, I can guarantee you it won't over penetrate. It has to penetrate before it can over penetrate....
gravediggerfour wrote:For those of you with Mr. Fancy Pants gas piston AR's better stock up on the parts that are not interchangable.
TravisM.1 wrote:If a rifle is an option, a rifle is usually the answer.

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Re: Help me decide.

Post by strm_trpr » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:03 pm

I went through Police Academy with a SA xd 45 service. That was a great gun. I shot it damn well and it felt much better than my glock 23 does. That being said at my agency I am required to cary a gen3 glock 23, therefor I sold the XD (kinda regret it but I did not need a full size double stack 45) I now find myself looking at a 9mm flavor of glock for personal use because I like to have the same manual of arms for different weapons. The XD is more sensitive to limpwrist than the glocks are. The xd was more prone to malfunctions in general than my Glock has been. But learning how to clear said malfunctions in a controlled environment under stress and pressure made me a much better shooter. It really comes down to comfort. If the xd feels better go with it.
"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me." ~Ayn Rand~

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Re: Help me decide.

Post by Tommy Tran » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:26 pm

strm_trpr wrote:I went through Police Academy with a SA xd 45 service. That was a great gun. I shot it damn well and it felt much better than my glock 23 does. That being said at my agency I am required to cary a gen3 glock 23, therefor I sold the XD (kinda regret it but I did not need a full size double stack 45) I now find myself looking at a 9mm flavor of glock for personal use because I like to have the same manual of arms for different weapons. The XD is more sensitive to limpwrist than the glocks are. The xd was more prone to malfunctions in general than my Glock has been. But learning how to clear said malfunctions in a controlled environment under stress and pressure made me a much better shooter. It really comes down to comfort. If the xd feels better go with it.
Sorry if its a SD gun I want to go with what has the greatest chance of working 100% not what is comfortable... YMMV
phil_in_cs wrote:well, I can guarantee you it won't over penetrate. It has to penetrate before it can over penetrate....
gravediggerfour wrote:For those of you with Mr. Fancy Pants gas piston AR's better stock up on the parts that are not interchangable.
TravisM.1 wrote:If a rifle is an option, a rifle is usually the answer.

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Re: Help me decide.

Post by strm_trpr » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:50 pm

I totaly agree, however, I beleve that all of my malfunctions were user induced, none of the firearms instructors have ever been able to get it to fail. That being said i fired 5-7k rounds throug the weapon with about 10-20 malfunctions over 6 months. I have had malfunctions in my glock, and malfunctions in all my weapons accept for my 686+. Malfunctions will happen especialy in a training academy where you are shooting prone, leaning, on your side, reaction hand only, weapon hand only, one hand manipulation drills, close combat...etc. I would not scare anybody away from the xd due to my malfunctions, I am just saying it is more sensitive to limp wrist than my glock or 1911. It wants a firm hand.
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Re: Help me decide.

Post by Tommy Tran » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:08 am

strm_trpr wrote:I totaly agree, however, I beleve that all of my malfunctions were user induced, none of the firearms instructors have ever been able to get it to fail. That being said i fired 5-7k rounds throug the weapon with about 10-20 malfunctions over 6 months. I have had malfunctions in my glock, and malfunctions in all my weapons accept for my 686+. Malfunctions will happen especialy in a training academy where you are shooting prone, leaning, on your side, reaction hand only, weapon hand only, one hand manipulation drills, close combat...etc. I would not scare anybody away from the xd due to my malfunctions, I am just saying it is more sensitive to limp wrist than my glock or 1911. It wants a firm hand.
Hahah wish I could say the same. I just got a beautiful 686+(6in) and had about 20 light strikes due to the spring kit that was in it when I bought, fortunately he included the stock springs which I promptly swapped back in!

OT I just hate hearing the 'oh it feels so good in my hand, its natural for me'... it could be some POS jennings or raven. If the OP is looking to get something that is about 90% of the way there then they should go 100% and learn to be a shooter not just an owner. I agree most malfs I have seen with any auto pistol are either user induced or ammo related, that being said most dont train enough to make their guns malf much less train to make clearing said malfs second nature. Sooo they should get guns that have the lowest chance of malf-age.
phil_in_cs wrote:well, I can guarantee you it won't over penetrate. It has to penetrate before it can over penetrate....
gravediggerfour wrote:For those of you with Mr. Fancy Pants gas piston AR's better stock up on the parts that are not interchangable.
TravisM.1 wrote:If a rifle is an option, a rifle is usually the answer.

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Re: Help me decide.

Post by Shaolinhai » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:01 am

Back to the OP. It's not "what I should get" - it's "what I should get for now." I find that guns are like cheetos, "you can't just have one." I use to get into this dilemma of what to get, this or that, waste a lot of time going over the decisions. Then I would decide on one, get it and then find myself a year later getting the other one too. Congrats on making a decision and sticking with it. I find that I tend to have several guns for CCW. Each one serves a different purpose or carrying environment. I would typically carry a G19 whenever I wear baggy clothing or during the winter. When it's hot, like the 3 months straight of 100+ degree weather in Texas, I typically carry a smaller 380 PPK or a Taurus TCP in the pocket when I have shorts on. I'm not too keen on sweating on my gun when carrying it IWB in 100+ weather. Or when it is cool outside I would carry a Taurus millenium 40 cause it is a little slimmer than my G19 and I can conceal it better when wearing jeans and a t-shirt. Of course the only draw back on this strategy is that you have to practice a lot with all of your firearms but I don't really have a problem with that. :D
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Re: Help me decide.

Post by Bird Legs » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:16 am

doc66 wrote:Go with the 9mm. In real world shootings with modern, well designed ammunition, the .40 does nothing that the 9mm won't do these days. The niche that the .40 used to hold over the 9mm is rapidly disintegrating as new bullet designs hit the market. The 9mm also shoots flatter over distance, so your 100 yard shots are easier.
Absolutely.

I attended a ballistics workshop put on by Federal Ammunition recently, and seeing is believing. Even Federal is advising people to stay away from the .40 in favor of the 9mm. Their logic:

1. 9mm wound ballistics have now met and matched those of the .40
2. 9mm costs less
3. 9mm gives you more ammo capacity
4. 9mm produces less wear on the gun
5. 9mm is more accurate

Moreover, I find the .40 to be the absolute worst round on the planet to shoot, for myself. Instead of being the best compromise between 9 and .45, it became the worst compromise as the recoil of most .40 handguns is all over the map when compared to the predictable recoil of a .45 or a 9mm. Second shot placement is much easier for me with a 9mm or .45 than with a .40.

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Re: Help me decide.

Post by strm_trpr » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:20 pm

Bird Legs wrote:Moreover, I find the .40 to be the absolute worst round on the planet to shoot, for myself. Instead of being the best compromise between 9 and .45, it became the worst compromise as the recoil of most .40 handguns is all over the map when compared to the predictable recoil of a .45 or a 9mm. Second shot placement is much easier for me with a 9mm or .45 than with a .40.
I tend to agree with you, I carry a Glock 23 for duty, and while I do shoot it well and I get every shot on paper I do better with a 45 or a 9. the .40 recoil is a snap and the .45acp is a push.
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Re: Help me decide.

Post by nimdabew » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:03 pm

When did you get married? Last I heard, you were still single!
Thanks Anianna!
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Re: Help me decide.

Post by Morphace » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:07 pm

Tommy Tran, Thanks for the advice, but I’ll stick with one I’ve chosen. You may hate the “it feels good in my hands” comment, but 1. I’m not new to guns, I’m new to gun ownership, but I’ve been shooting for years. I’ve shot many types of handguns and rifles and I have to say I disagree with you on you “it DOESN’T MATTER how it ‘feels’ in your hand” statement. It may not be the most important thing, but it is a bit important. 2. I’m never going to be a pro, I’m going to at most be a decent amateur. I like to shoot what I like to shoot. I don’t care if every pro in the world turned to Glocks that doesn’t mean I’ll ever like them. 3. I don’t know you for Adam, hell I don’t even know Adam. So thanks for the information, but I’ll be sticking with my choice.

Shaolinhai, you’re very right. This should be what should I get for now. I know I’ll be getting some other hand guns down the road. Different guns for different needs.
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Re: Help me decide.

Post by Shaper » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:41 pm

Morphace wrote:Tommy Tran, Thanks for the advice, but I’ll stick with one I’ve chosen. You may hate the “it feels good in my hands” comment, but 1. I’m not new to guns, I’m new to gun ownership, but I’ve been shooting for years. I’ve shot many types of handguns and rifles and I have to say I disagree with you on you “it DOESN’T MATTER how it ‘feels’ in your hand” statement. It may not be the most important thing, but it is a bit important. 2. I’m never going to be a pro, I’m going to at most be a decent amateur. I like to shoot what I like to shoot. I don’t care if every pro in the world turned to Glocks that doesn’t mean I’ll ever like them. 3. I don’t know you for Adam, hell I don’t even know Adam. So thanks for the information, but I’ll be sticking with my choice.

Shaolinhai, you’re very right. This should be what should I get for now. I know I’ll be getting some other hand guns down the road. Different guns for different needs.
Wow...how is this thread still floating?

I like a Glock just as much as the next red blooded American BUT...Guys who love Glock...we get it...no, really. No other handgun can compare. Zeus himself uses a Glock Lightningbolt religiously...

Random Forum Guy: I'm thinking of getting a crossbow because I used to shoot them as a child with my father. Which one should I get?

Glock Guy: Fuck that, dood...what you really want is a Glock 19. You can't even CCW a crossbow, dood.

Random Forum Guy: But I was talking about crossb...

Glock Guy: Just get the Glock 19, all the high speed operators use them. You will thank me later, bro...Fist bump?

Random Forum Guy: Umm, yea, ok...I gotta go. *facepalm*

Honestly...Let the man enjoy a quality firearm (even if it pales in comparison to yours) ;)
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Re: Help me decide.

Post by Wrangler » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:44 pm

It is really the OPs fault for posting this in the Glock forum.
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Re: Help me decide.

Post by Shaper » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:59 pm

Wrangler wrote:It is really the OPs fault for posting this in the Glock forum.
LMFAO!
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Re: Help me decide.

Post by 400 Grains » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:22 pm

strm_trpr wrote:I went through Police Academy with a SA xd 45 service. That was a great gun. I shot it damn well and it felt much better than my glock 23 does. That being said at my agency I am required to cary a gen3 glock 23, therefor I sold the XD (kinda regret it but I did not need a full size double stack 45) I now find myself looking at a 9mm flavor of glock for personal use because I like to have the same manual of arms for different weapons. The XD is more sensitive to limpwrist than the glocks are. The xd was more prone to malfunctions in general than my Glock has been. But learning how to clear said malfunctions in a controlled environment under stress and pressure made me a much better shooter. It really comes down to comfort. If the xd feels better go with it.
If you get a Glock 9, try and find an older Gen 3 gun. Glock Gen 4's have been having some issues and it doesn't look like Glock has for sure gotten to the bottom of it yet. Lots of the Glock faithful are in denial about it, and will post about how theirs runs 100%, (so therefore those of us who have had problems must be limpwristing), but this is a well documented issue, with lots of departments unhappy about it.

Hopefully Glock figures it out soon. The Glock 9 was as close to problem free as any service gun could be.

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Re: Help me decide.

Post by MVegas » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:27 pm

Shaper wrote:
Wrangler wrote:It is really the OPs fault for posting this in the Glock forum.
LMFAO!
LOL yes!
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Re: Help me decide.

Post by Domindart » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:24 pm

Bird Legs wrote:
doc66 wrote:Go with the 9mm. In real world shootings with modern, well designed ammunition, the .40 does nothing that the 9mm won't do these days. The niche that the .40 used to hold over the 9mm is rapidly disintegrating as new bullet designs hit the market. The 9mm also shoots flatter over distance, so your 100 yard shots are easier.
Absolutely.

I attended a ballistics workshop put on by Federal Ammunition recently, and seeing is believing. Even Federal is advising people to stay away from the .40 in favor of the 9mm. Their logic:

1. 9mm wound ballistics have now met and matched those of the .40
2. 9mm costs less
3. 9mm gives you more ammo capacity
4. 9mm produces less wear on the gun
5. 9mm is more accurate

Moreover, I find the .40 to be the absolute worst round on the planet to shoot, for myself. Instead of being the best compromise between 9 and .45, it became the worst compromise as the recoil of most .40 handguns is all over the map when compared to the predictable recoil of a .45 or a 9mm. Second shot placement is much easier for me with a 9mm or .45 than with a .40.
I agree, got a 40 H&K for my first handgun and sold it shortly thereafter. Too much recoil, the 45 is easier to shoot.
As of now Im buying a 9mm Sig (on layaway) and will be happy I think. Cheaper ammo.. and easier to shoot than all "substantial" handgun calibers.
sig and a shotgun so far...

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Re: Help me decide.

Post by MaconCJ7 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:44 pm

Tommy Tran wrote:So this is the best place for this to be said recently...
[rant]
Everyone that is new to guns goes on and on about what feels good or fits the hand and a lot of gun OWNERS will say the same... Now, as a SHOOTER I dont care what it is I will run it better than most OWNERS... you reach a point where it DOESNT MATTER how it 'feels' in your hands... when you reach this point you begin to revise your armory to things that have the least failure rate and mechanically speaking are the best including build quality, materials and layout such as ease of use, bore axis height, simplicity, parts availability, etc. So from someone who has a lot of trigger pulls under their belt, start with what the pros use and learn to love that, believe me its easier and less expensive and takes less time
[/rant]
So what you're saying is... nothing pertinent to the post. I'm glad you're Mr Hotshit with pistols. I hope you realize that means absolute dick to the OP, or to anyone else that asks questions regarding a good pistol. Your ability to shoot 1" groups at 50m with a .38 Special doesn't add anything towards helping someone else pick a good first gun. Now, if you were to say you can shoot 1" groups with a .38 Special at 50m because of how well it fits in your hand, and because the cylinder acts as a gyro-stabilizer, then that's helpful.

Now, as a SHOOTER I have to disagree with your entire statement. It matters very much how well it fits in your hand. I can also guarantee that you can't shoot any of my pistols better than I. The fact that you say that fit doesn't matter pretty well negates any argument you could have formed. I've shot lots and lots of frames. I'm pretty good with just about everything I've shot. That doesn't stop fit from being an important factor in my decision when buying a sidearm. I'm not going to give up function over fit, but no one has to. There are several reputable brands that fit differently. The ability to shoot comfortably allows folks to get more into shooting, so they can get to a point where they can shoot anything they pick up. I like shooting comfortably because I do it enough that comfort is a huge factor on enjoyment. While I would shoot the same amount uncomfortably, why would I if I have the choice?
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