ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by chrisw » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:10 pm

shiddymunkie wrote:
VeniVidiVici wrote:I used to be big into "combat" :lol: handguns. I've changed my mind after getting some more outdoor experience and would much rather have a good, reliable 22lr. Even a .380 will cause too much damage to small game so a 22lr is better for securing food. A 22lr isn't a man stopper but, it is only a backup to your rifle and it is still pretty darn effective. A nice Ruger in 22lr would fit the bill nicely IMO.
Have you seen the PMR-30 before? Its a standard sized pistol that holds 30 rds of .22 magnum. It might be something you'd like.
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While outside the scope of this discussion, there's also the RMR-30, which is essentially the same firearm in a carbine (it's a tiny thing):

Image


As for me choice, the g19


I wish they offered the pmr-30 in a 22lr instead of 22mag. I would definitely own one if they did. sooo much cheaper to shoot 22lr.

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by Dasho101 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:48 am

my makarov... Image
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by Doc Maker » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:11 am

I'm with ZomCon, I love my Beretta 92F. It fits my hands, high capacity, 9mm is easy to reload and as the military sidearm, I should be able to scavenge parts without to much trouble.
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:54 am

I used to be big into "combat" :lol: handguns. I've changed my mind after getting some more outdoor experience and would much rather have a good, reliable 22lr. Even a .380 will cause too much damage to small game so a 22lr is better for securing food. A 22lr isn't a man stopper but, it is only a backup to your rifle and it is still pretty darn effective. A nice Ruger in 22lr would fit the bill nicely IMO.

Have you seen the PMR-30 before? Its a standard sized pistol that holds 30 rds of .22 magnum. It might be something you'd like.
Image

While outside the scope of this discussion, there's also the RMR-30, which is essentially the same firearm in a carbine (it's a tiny thing):

Image
The point of a sidearm is to be a backup to your rifle for when your rifle is either unusable, or out of ammo. A camp gun is a different matter.

That aside, plenty of reports of the PMRs coming NIB in BAD need of fitment. I.E. failure to cycle an entire mag without polishing the burrs and boogers out of the inside, big hunks of polymer that need to be filed off the molded pieces.
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by Silent Kube » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:06 am

As my arsenal stands right now I'd have to go with my S&W 59. Not a popular choice I know but it's as accurate as I need it to be and very reliable. Also my choices right now are either that of my KelTec P-11. Ideally I'd like to have the KT as a backup since they share mags. I'm working on getting a 5906 as well. When I do the 59 will stay in my BOV.

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by Slugg » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:32 am

I love my ruger sp101 .357mag. But it really would depend on what type of mission I'm on. Holding my home secure than sure. Going out hunting I would probably take a .22lr for small game and my rifle for big.
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by gimmejr » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:22 am

It would either be one of my Glocks or this one.

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by VeniVidiVici » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:51 am

Doc Torr wrote:The point of a sidearm is to be a backup to your rifle for when your rifle is either unusable, or out of ammo. A camp gun is a different matter.
If my SR-15 craps the bed while I'm getting engaged by multiple targets I'd be just as dead if I had been carrying my 1911. The reality is you will almost NEVER have to engage another person and if you do you won't expend nearly enough ammunition to have parts breakage.

A "camp gun" is the only logical carry piece for a SHTF situation in my area. If the laws allow carry of a rifle why would you worry about having a handgun in a defensive caliber? I can't feed myself with my .45 ACP but, I can with my 22LR. The only time I'd rather have a pistol in such a caliber would be in an urban environment where rifle carry is illegal or impossible to do without drawing unwanted attention.

It's foolish to imply that these "camp guns" won't fit into a minority of peoples kits better than what you have in your kit thousands of miles away. The environments people live in are different and many people are out of touch with reality when they say they want to leave their suburbs and head out into the woods/mountains. Sorry idiots, they are already occupied! :lol:
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by GMScooter » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:58 am

Colt 1911 Govt. Accept no substitutes......
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by lailr » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:55 pm

VeniVidiVici wrote: The environments people live in are different and many people are out of touch with reality when they say they want to leave their suburbs and head out into the woods/mountains. Sorry idiots, they are already occupied! :lol:

Amen!...... I would daresay that while trying to be as helpful as possible, I'm not going to allow much squatting...... think of me as Herschal with out the barnfull :lol:


Right now my best bet on side arms are my two Ruger p-95's, cause I got the most mags and ammo for them...not popular with the snobs, I know, but you know what, we're a bunch of guys sitting around on the internet, you'd think we would have been used to that from high school :lol:

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by TDW586 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:59 pm

Practically speaking, it's one of my Glocks, either the 35 or my duty 23. I'll buy myself a personal 23 RTF2 if I ever get around to it. My Glocks excel at everything I need a combat handgun to do.

As far as what I "like", I've been carrying my SIG P220 a lot recently. It's extremely accurate, I love the trigger, and overall find it very enjoyable to shoot.
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by hotlead » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:25 pm

I'll be taking my SAI Trophy Match, and will be getting a Kimber .22lr conversion kit early next year...............
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and my 625-8 as well, ammo compatability between my pistol and revolver is win. I've been practicing loading this from 1911 magazines, thumbing the rounds out of the mag straight into the chambers like a PEZ dispenser, another one of those likely uneccessary but nice to know I can things...........
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Funny, not the first time I've posted those pics today.

I carry this one at work.............
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by Boris » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:43 pm

Glock 19 because I have two as well as plenty of mags for my wife and I. I love the feel of my S&W M&P9 though...
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by squinty » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:52 pm

Silent Kube wrote:As my arsenal stands right now I'd have to go with my S&W 59. Not a popular choice I know [/img]]
I don't know what you mean. Maybe it's just my ignorance bu I thought you had a pretty class pistol.

I'd take my XD .45 tactical (there it is on the left.)

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by TheLastOne » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:39 pm

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I like my 22! I'd bring along the 27 for a bug.


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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:24 am

VeniVidiVici wrote:
Doc Torr wrote:The point of a sidearm is to be a backup to your rifle for when your rifle is either unusable, or out of ammo. A camp gun is a different matter.
If my SR-15 craps the bed while I'm getting engaged by multiple targets I'd be just as dead if I had been carrying my 1911. The reality is you will almost NEVER have to engage another person and if you do you won't expend nearly enough ammunition to have parts breakage.

A "camp gun" is the only logical carry piece for a SHTF situation in my area. If the laws allow carry of a rifle why would you worry about having a handgun in a defensive caliber? I can't feed myself with my .45 ACP but, I can with my 22LR. The only time I'd rather have a pistol in such a caliber would be in an urban environment where rifle carry is illegal or impossible to do without drawing unwanted attention.

It's foolish to imply that these "camp guns" won't fit into a minority of peoples kits better than what you have in your kit thousands of miles away. The environments people live in are different and many people are out of touch with reality when they say they want to leave their suburbs and head out into the woods/mountains. Sorry idiots, they are already occupied! :lol:
Easy big guy. I didn't say that. But look at the thread title: does it say "Camp Guns" or "Sidearms?"
The Intarwebz Says wrote:A side arm is a weapon, usually a pistol but can be a dagger, as used in pre-modern times, which is worn on the body in a holster to permit immediate access and use. A side arm is typically required equipment for military personnel and sometimes carried by law enforcement personnel. Usually, uniformed personnel of these services wear their weapons openly, while plainclothes personnel have their side arms concealed under their clothes. A side arm may be carried alone, or as a back-up to a primary weapon such as a rifle or carbine.
.22=/=sidearm, and sidearm=/=camp gun. Tone down the superior intellect a bit, will ya? Also: learn to transition from carbine to pistol, and your pistol could save your life, just in case the implausible happens.
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by azrael99 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:50 am

Doc Torr wrote: learn to transition from carbine to pistol, and your pistol could save your life, just in case the implausible happens.
i agree, while i was in the army we did it a couple of CQB drill lesson about that and (please don't laugh ) i applied it when i was doing airsoft Milsim with my friend. when i was entering a building (i had a MP5A4 and a Glock 23) i switched to my sidearm because it was easier to move inside the building.
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by VeniVidiVici » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:52 am

Doc Torr wrote:
VeniVidiVici wrote:
Doc Torr wrote: -snip-
Easy big guy. I didn't say that. But look at the thread title: does it say "Camp Guns" or "Sidearms?"

.22=/=sidearm, and sidearm=/=camp gun. Tone down the superior intellect a bit, will ya? Also: learn to transition from carbine to pistol, and your pistol could save your life, just in case the implausible happens.
So basically you are unable to defend your criticism of my sidearm and are trying to apply arbitrary restrictions on what is or isn't a sidearm despite the fact that it is traditionally defined as a weapon worn on the side or belt. :roll: A 22lr pistol is a sidearm and is a damn good one at that.
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by squinty » Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:40 pm

VeniVidiVici wrote:
Doc Torr wrote:
VeniVidiVici wrote:
Doc Torr wrote: -snip-
Easy big guy. I didn't say that. But look at the thread title: does it say "Camp Guns" or "Sidearms?"

.22=/=sidearm, and sidearm=/=camp gun. Tone down the superior intellect a bit, will ya? Also: learn to transition from carbine to pistol, and your pistol could save your life, just in case the implausible happens.
So basically you are unable to defend your criticism of my sidearm and are trying to apply arbitrary restrictions on what is or isn't a sidearm despite the fact that it is traditionally defined as a weapon worn on the side or belt. :roll: A 22lr pistol is a sidearm and is a damn good one at that.
Relax, fellas, you're both pretty and you can each choose the "sidearm" that works best for you. Mine's a .45 because it's primary role is self defense. I won't be relying on game to feed me in a PAW but if I do choose to hunt small game for sustenance, I'd take a long arm - like a .22 rifle, or 12 gauge w/birdshot - for that purpose, and keep the sidearm on my hip in case something or someone threatens me. The reason being that if I'm hunting, I know I'll have reason for the hunting weapon to be at hand - I'll be actively looking for a reason to use it (juicy squirrel etc.) The defensive weapon is there just in case, it's a tool I hope I don't have reason to use and I'll be actively trying to avoid any situation where I'll need it. So it goes into a handy hands free package on my hip.

If I think a lethal threat is so likely that I need a carbine for self defense, I'm not looking for game, I'm scanning for threats and if possible, hiding in my BIL or other dug in location.
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by 0122358 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:00 pm

AKFTW wrote:Glock 17 vs Glock 19? Why choose? :mrgreen:

Image

Glock 17 chopped to 19 grip length. Best of both worlds, no compromises.

Ok ive got a question...How is it the best of both worlds if the 19 only holds 15 rounds versus 17? I love he grip ona 19 but i like having the most ammo just incase i need it? I guess what im asking is will a 17 mag fit flush in that (or a 19) like it will on a stock 17? (that sounded more confrontational then i ment it to be, forgive me)

My take on a side arm is that like others have said, it used to fight you way back to your rifle...and in some cases, it easier and faster to transition to a sidearm than it is to reload your magazine. Plus what if you need to ditch your rifle or break it down to move through hostile territory id still want a handgun with easy acess in case i need todefend myself. just my two copper coins.
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by Winston Smith » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:01 pm

i agree, while i was in the army we did it a couple of CQB drill lesson about that and (please don't laugh ) i applied it when i was doing airsoft Milsim with my friend. when i was entering a building (i had a MP5A4 and a Glock 23) i switched to my sidearm because it was easier to move inside the building.
True story. Shotgun the perfect HD/CQB weapon? Try getting through a narrow door frame with it shouldered. You're going to have at least a split second where you are exposed and not on the sights while you maneuver through. Something like a sidearm or very short carbine will let you "slice the pie" a great technique for CQB in my opinion. Shotties definitely have their place, but try maneuvering around the house and see what the limitations are.

I'm going with the Glock .21 here. 13 shots of a powerful, commonly available round in an extremely reliable, lightweight piece(too bad it wasn't made in America-it would be absolutely perfect). There's prettier guns, but when you throw in the fact that you can get two for the price and weight of a decent 1911, the G21 wins hands down. I'll definitely be picking one up once my LTC goes through in the next few months.
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by AKFTW » Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:05 pm

0122358 wrote:
AKFTW wrote:Glock 17 vs Glock 19? Why choose? :mrgreen:

image

Glock 17 chopped to 19 grip length. Best of both worlds, no compromises.

Ok ive got a question...How is it the best of both worlds if the 19 only holds 15 rounds versus 17? I love he grip ona 19 but i like having the most ammo just incase i need it? I guess what im asking is will a 17 mag fit flush in that (or a 19) like it will on a stock 17? (that sounded more confrontational then i ment it to be, forgive me)

My take on a side arm is that like others have said, it used to fight you way back to your rifle...and in some cases, it easier and faster to transition to a sidearm than it is to reload your magazine. Plus what if you need to ditch your rifle or break it down to move through hostile territory id still want a handgun with easy acess in case i need todefend myself. just my two copper coins.
It's the best of both worlds since it has the velocity, sight radius, and handling characteristics of a 17, and the CCW-ability of a 19 (hence the shorter grip). The 17 is kind of a pain in the ass to conceal carry if you are 5' 6" and have a 30" waist.

It can take a 17 mag or a 19 mag, but obviously the 17 mag will stick out a little bit like it does when you put one in a 19, since 17 > 15.
Any Glock 9mm can take larger mags, you could put a 33rd stick in a Glock 26 if you felt like it. I like the chopped grip because it is MUCH more comfortable for carry, fits my hand perfectly, and my "battle rattle" pistol load comes to exactly 50rds of 9mm, which makes storing ammo very easy. My in-the-gun mag is the 15+1 in the chamber and the reloads on my pistol belt are 17 mags.
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by 0122358 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:19 pm

AKFTW wrote:
0122358 wrote:
AKFTW wrote:Glock 17 vs Glock 19? Why choose? :mrgreen:

image

Glock 17 chopped to 19 grip length. Best of both worlds, no compromises.

Ok ive got a question...How is it the best of both worlds if the 19 only holds 15 rounds versus 17? I love he grip ona 19 but i like having the most ammo just incase i need it? I guess what im asking is will a 17 mag fit flush in that (or a 19) like it will on a stock 17? (that sounded more confrontational then i ment it to be, forgive me)

My take on a side arm is that like others have said, it used to fight you way back to your rifle...and in some cases, it easier and faster to transition to a sidearm than it is to reload your magazine. Plus what if you need to ditch your rifle or break it down to move through hostile territory id still want a handgun with easy acess in case i need todefend myself. just my two copper coins.
It's the best of both worlds since it has the velocity, sight radius, and handling characteristics of a 17, and the CCW-ability of a 19 (hence the shorter grip). The 17 is kind of a pain in the ass to conceal carry if you are 5' 6" and have a 30" waist.

It can take a 17 mag or a 19 mag, but obviously the 17 mag will stick out a little bit like it does when you put one in a 19, since 17 > 15.
Any Glock 9mm can take larger mags, you could put a 33rd stick in a Glock 26 if you felt like it. I like the chopped grip because it is MUCH more comfortable for carry, fits my hand perfectly, and my "battle rattle" pistol load comes to exactly 50rds of 9mm, which makes storing ammo very easy. My in-the-gun mag is the 15+1 in the chamber and the reloads on my pistol belt are 17 mags.
thats actually good to know. i also have a 28-30ish inch wasit so im pretty much a twig lol. thanks. I wish they made the Cut 17 like yours a standard model...or do they?
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by AKFTW » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:57 pm

0122358 wrote:
AKFTW wrote:
0122358 wrote:
AKFTW wrote:Glock 17 vs Glock 19? Why choose? :mrgreen:

image

Glock 17 chopped to 19 grip length. Best of both worlds, no compromises.

Ok ive got a question...How is it the best of both worlds if the 19 only holds 15 rounds versus 17? I love he grip ona 19 but i like having the most ammo just incase i need it? I guess what im asking is will a 17 mag fit flush in that (or a 19) like it will on a stock 17? (that sounded more confrontational then i ment it to be, forgive me)

My take on a side arm is that like others have said, it used to fight you way back to your rifle...and in some cases, it easier and faster to transition to a sidearm than it is to reload your magazine. Plus what if you need to ditch your rifle or break it down to move through hostile territory id still want a handgun with easy acess in case i need todefend myself. just my two copper coins.
It's the best of both worlds since it has the velocity, sight radius, and handling characteristics of a 17, and the CCW-ability of a 19 (hence the shorter grip). The 17 is kind of a pain in the ass to conceal carry if you are 5' 6" and have a 30" waist.

It can take a 17 mag or a 19 mag, but obviously the 17 mag will stick out a little bit like it does when you put one in a 19, since 17 > 15.
Any Glock 9mm can take larger mags, you could put a 33rd stick in a Glock 26 if you felt like it. I like the chopped grip because it is MUCH more comfortable for carry, fits my hand perfectly, and my "battle rattle" pistol load comes to exactly 50rds of 9mm, which makes storing ammo very easy. My in-the-gun mag is the 15+1 in the chamber and the reloads on my pistol belt are 17 mags.
thats actually good to know. i also have a 28-30ish inch wasit so im pretty much a twig lol. thanks. I wish they made the Cut 17 like yours a standard model...or do they?
Nah, unfortunately they don't. It really wasn't hard, just took a dremel and a Glock 19 mag, cut conservatively and then sand until the 19 mag fits and you have a bit of a gap like on the factory magwell. Only took about 2 hours of careful work. If you have a Glock 19 frame to measure it by it's even easier. If you're afraid of doing that, just get a 19, but I wanted the 17 chopped because I'm not afraid to do some home-gunsmithing to make a platform more optimal for my needs.
docdredd wrote:those pandas need to harden the fuck up
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