California Safe pistols Please suggest.

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Jeffcee
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Re: California Safe pistols Please suggest.

Post by Jeffcee » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:03 am

flybynight wrote:
KJ4VOV wrote:
flybynight wrote:It's california, so here's a list of legal firearms for the left coast state of confusion

http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/safeguns_resp.asp
Land of the Weird and Home of the Strange.

(still a nice place to visit though)
had to change the link, the first one wouldn't work if the the list was open.
Thanks! This is very useful!

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Re: California Safe pistols Please suggest.

Post by Jeffcee » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:09 am

00dlez wrote:
Jeffcee wrote: The rounds I'm most interested in are .45 due to mag limitations, and .22 due to ammo cost.
This is my first thought as well - unlike in most places where I would suggest starting to refine a search based on magazine capacity in a reliable caliber, in this case you are rounds limited so:

1) Look at handguns that hit the maximum allowed round count (maybe accept those with one, MAYBE two less than maximum, IF AND ONLY IF it meets the rest of the criteria better)

2) Find a size/weight (LOADED) that you are comfortable with carrying, and carrying often

3) Determine the largest caliber (within reason, of course, .45 is probably the largest needed) that fits the size/weight

4) Try some models in your price range, and determine what you can shoot most comfortably

5) Pick a few favorites: practice reloading rapidly and jam/malfunction clearing drills... Do any of them have controls that are noticeably better or worse than the others?

6) Salivate on the internet at all the other kewl guns that we get to play with and you don't. Neener neener.



Editing because I forgot to address your desire for a .22 - I get the concept and wouldn't try to talk you out of it. A .22 conversion is great long term, it will pay for itself and save you some money if you are putting a lot of rounds downrange... BUT BUT BUT - shooting .22 out of a .45 for training is NOT a 1:1 - you are not getting the recoil, weight, ballistics, etc. that you really should be learning and experiencing in you defensive firearm. Lets say for easy math that the conversion kit is $300 and you are saving 30 cents a round shooting .22 instead of .45... thats 1000 rounds of 45 you could have been training with instead of .22...

That's a crap ton of "real" training instead of approximation training. If you are really concerned about learning controls/etc, rather than putting your real caliber down range, maybe an airsoft trainer of your model would be even better than a .22? especially in CA? (I'm not joking or being snarky)

.22 conversions are great in the long term... but I mean LONG term. I think that on the front end, you'd be better served shooting and training with the actual caliber and adding the kit later on.
That is some sage advice and much appreciated.

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Re: California Safe pistols Please suggest.

Post by Jeffcee » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:15 am

woodsghost wrote:Here are my thoughts, and I might get corrective feedback from the hive.

I think it depends on whether you plan to get real, stress based training or not. If yes, them get whatever is reliable and you like the look of. If not, consider a revolver.

In a limited state, the capacity limit won't be as big a handicap.

A revolver is less ammo sensitive, so you can buy whatever you want with less concern over whether it will run or not.

A revolver has a simpler manual of arms. If a round does not go bang, you pull the trigger, bringing the next one into play. This is also natural human instinct.

Also revolvers don't get stove pipes or failures to feed. Or a host of other problems. The one problem they do have comes from shooting ammo that is too powerful.

A squib load will still be a problem, but the revolver handles it better as it vents the gas out between the cylinder and the barrel.

Just my thoughts. If considering training to handle malfunctions under stress I'd look at an auto. Those 6 rounds go quickly, and it is slower to reload. I have experienced this in classes.
I doubt Ill increase my range time, so you make a strong argument for a revolver. The ranges in LA are about $50 a lane and that racks up pretty fast.

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Re: California Safe pistols Please suggest.

Post by The Twizzler » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:18 pm

It kinda sounds like your leaning towards the revolver. It's a good choice especially for a new shooter. They are very simple to use and maintain. I would probably recommend either a Ruger or a Smith and Wesson. There are other revolver makers out there but they tend to fall into one of 2 categories, over priced (Colt, Kimber, Korth) or cheap with possible issues (I am looking at you Taurus). As far as rounds go there are lots of options but I would say most people settle on .357 Magnum. The reason is two fold-1. It's a very powerful round faster and more powerfull than your average 9mm, 45 acp, or 40 cal and 2. You can also shoot 38 special rounds out of it, they are much less powerfull but much cheaper, still effective for defense, and way less recoil. So you get a gun that can fire 2 different rounds one a real beast but expensive and one a a cheap but effective worker which is much more manageable. One last thing, you will want to get a short barrelled revolver..... don't do this. These are for carry purposes and while effective and accurate these are really for some with a lot of expertise, recoil is so much worse in a short barrel (called a J-frame usually). I would say you want a barrel 3-6 inches. Smith and Wessons are a little nicer, the trigger a bit crisper, the weight a bit less. The Ruger's are heavy and built like tanks, you basically can't break them and that heaviness means they absorb recoil much better but are a pain to lug around.
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Re: California Safe pistols Please suggest.

Post by flybynight » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:30 pm

Jeffcee wrote:
woodsghost wrote:Here are my thoughts, and I might get corrective feedback from the hive.

I think it depends on whether you plan to get real, stress based training or not. If yes, them get whatever is reliable and you like the look of. If not, consider a revolver.

In a limited state, the capacity limit won't be as big a handicap.

A revolver is less ammo sensitive, so you can buy whatever you want with less concern over whether it will run or not.

A revolver has a simpler manual of arms. If a round does not go bang, you pull the trigger, bringing the next one into play. This is also natural human instinct.

Also revolvers don't get stove pipes or failures to feed. Or a host of other problems. The one problem they do have comes from shooting ammo that is too powerful.

A squib load will still be a problem, but the revolver handles it better as it vents the gas out between the cylinder and the barrel.

Just my thoughts. If considering training to handle malfunctions under stress I'd look at an auto. Those 6 rounds go quickly, and it is slower to reload. I have experienced this in classes.
I doubt Ill increase my range time, so you make a strong argument for a revolver. The ranges in LA are about $50 a lane and that racks up pretty fast.
http://www.socalsharpshooter.com/range

http://www.laxrange.com/range-price-list/

http://www.insightrangeinc.com/shoot.html

http://www.firingline.net/firing-range-services.html

http://www.angelesranges.com/rangeInfo/rangeFees.php

The only ones of those I used to shoot at were the first and last. I don't see a couple more I used to use so they must be gone now.
J frame is the size of the frame not the barrel. Personally I prefer Ruger revolvers. And have had a secret love affair for decades with three inch revolvers. Just seems right

Image

edit to add, those are not the only ranges in L A. Just got them from a list and stopped looking when I got distracted
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Re: California Safe pistols Please suggest.

Post by Jeffcee » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:44 pm

The Twizzler wrote:It kinda sounds like your leaning towards the revolver. It's a good choice especially for a new shooter. They are very simple to use and maintain. I would probably recommend either a Ruger or a Smith and Wesson. There are other revolver makers out there but they tend to fall into one of 2 categories, over priced (Colt, Kimber, Korth) or cheap with possible issues (I am looking at you Taurus). As far as rounds go there are lots of options but I would say most people settle on .357 Magnum. The reason is two fold-1. It's a very powerful round faster and more powerfull than your average 9mm, 45 acp, or 40 cal and 2. You can also shoot 38 special rounds out of it, they are much less powerfull but much cheaper, still effective for defense, and way less recoil. So you get a gun that can fire 2 different rounds one a real beast but expensive and one a a cheap but effective worker which is much more manageable. One last thing, you will want to get a short barrelled revolver..... don't do this. These are for carry purposes and while effective and accurate these are really for some with a lot of expertise, recoil is so much worse in a short barrel (called a J-frame usually). I would say you want a barrel 3-6 inches. Smith and Wessons are a little nicer, the trigger a bit crisper, the weight a bit less. The Ruger's are heavy and built like tanks, you basically can't break them and that heaviness means they absorb recoil much better but are a pain to lug around.
Thanks! Ive shoot Rugers before and liked them. Ill make that my next test.

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Re: California Safe pistols Please suggest.

Post by Jeffcee » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:48 pm

flybynight wrote:
Jeffcee wrote:
woodsghost wrote:Here are my thoughts, and I might get corrective feedback from the hive.

I think it depends on whether you plan to get real, stress based training or not. If yes, them get whatever is reliable and you like the look of. If not, consider a revolver.

In a limited state, the capacity limit won't be as big a handicap.

A revolver is less ammo sensitive, so you can buy whatever you want with less concern over whether it will run or not.

A revolver has a simpler manual of arms. If a round does not go bang, you pull the trigger, bringing the next one into play. This is also natural human instinct.

Also revolvers don't get stove pipes or failures to feed. Or a host of other problems. The one problem they do have comes from shooting ammo that is too powerful.

A squib load will still be a problem, but the revolver handles it better as it vents the gas out between the cylinder and the barrel.

Just my thoughts. If considering training to handle malfunctions under stress I'd look at an auto. Those 6 rounds go quickly, and it is slower to reload. I have experienced this in classes.
I doubt Ill increase my range time, so you make a strong argument for a revolver. The ranges in LA are about $50 a lane and that racks up pretty fast.
http://www.socalsharpshooter.com/range

http://www.laxrange.com/range-price-list/

http://www.insightrangeinc.com/shoot.html

http://www.firingline.net/firing-range-services.html

http://www.angelesranges.com/rangeInfo/rangeFees.php

The only ones of those I used to shoot at were the first and last. I don't see a couple more I used to use so they must be gone now.
J frame is the size of the frame not the barrel. Personally I prefer Ruger revolvers. And have had a secret love affair for decades with three inch revolvers. Just seems right

Image

edit to add, those are not the only ranges in L A. Just got them from a list and stopped looking when I got distracted
This is GREAT!! there are a couple of ranges in my area that I didn't know about!
Ruger is leading the pack of my potential purchase.

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Re: California Safe pistols Please suggest.

Post by roscoe » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:18 pm

A vote here for the 3" Ruger SP101. If I had to own only one handgun, it would be this one. It will basically do everything you could need from a revolver, meaning shoot an enormous range of loads, from light wadcutters to 200 grain hard cast bear loads. And it is not too heavy or large. I have ccw'ed mine and carry it backpacking in bear country. If you want to put the hot loads through it, put Hogue grips on.

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Re: California Safe pistols Please suggest.

Post by woodsghost » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:35 pm

If the Ruger is leading the pack, then cool! That is a great choice.

The S&W Model 64-8 and Model 10-14 are both also importable and available. Limited to .38 Spl. Both are very budget friendly when looking at the used market. There are a number of Model 64s that are police/jail/prison trade-ins.

The S&W 686 (.357) is pretty widely importable, including the 7 shot model (Model 686-6). That puts it even closer to an auto.

The Ruger Security Six can be found pretty inexpensively online too. Especially police/jail/prison trade-ins. (may not be Cali legal).

The LCRx series looks really cool. It would be light weight too, which I like. (5 shot though)

It looks like SureFire is doing revolver focused defensive courses in the Cali/Las Vegas area. Price looks really good.

http://www.surefireinstitute.com/course/revolver

I think Cali has some issues with ammo that contains lead. TulAmmo has steel cased .38 for around $.20 a round and I'm betting it is bi-metal, which is a fancy way of saying "soft steel with a little copper on the outside." TulAmmo also has steel cased bi-metal .357 for good prices. Those would be for practice and bulk storage, and some indoor ranges don't allow bi-metal ammo at their range due to fire hazards. Always check before buying ammo.

Buffalo Bore has good defensive ammo that does not contain lead. They have +P rated .38 that does the work of a .357, and their .357 ammo is even better. I'd be fine with a .38 and running +P stuff from BB.

Other makers also have good offerings that don't contain lead.

I do suggest at least one defensive course. There are a lot of videos out there too about how to use a revolver defensively. But hands-on training is really important.
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Re: California Safe pistols Please suggest.

Post by delarey » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:25 am

357 mag revolver or a 1911 in 45.

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