Caliber conundrum

Handgun, Pistol and Revolver topics

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

User avatar
RonnyRonin
* * * * *
Posts: 1608
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 8:11 pm
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: Caliber conundrum

Post by RonnyRonin » Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:12 pm

Stercutus wrote:Running out and not being able to buy any after some nutjob shoots up a school are two different things.
but shortages or bans wouldn't affect your personal stash, hence the need to stockpile. A fantasy scenario that requires abandoning your stockpile would generally exclude buying more cheap but uncommon calibers in a meaningfully short time, so in both cases I still get the advantage to 9mm. If I need to buy ammo and can't find it because of a scare, it is my fault for not buying enough to ride out the scare.
share your tobacco and your kindling, but never your sauna or your woman.

AK, Glock, Pie.

User avatar
woodsghost
* * * * *
Posts: 3142
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: Caliber conundrum

Post by woodsghost » Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:43 pm

Ok, so the 7.62x25 does not penetrate IIIA armor with 100% reliability, but this and other videos do show it has a very good chance of punching through IIIA armor.

On the other hand, this video shows there are some special 9mm rounds which can punch through IIIA armor as well.

I"m concerned with armor because if good guys have it, bad guys have it. Not nearly as many bad guys, but some do have it.




Does this information change any minds? Or is the recommendation still 9mm, and I should probably get some of that hot 9mm stuff?
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

User avatar
Neville
* * * *
Posts: 820
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:48 pm
Location: Northern California

Re: Caliber conundrum

Post by Neville » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:00 pm

I own both and like both for different reasons.

Let me give you bottom line up front. Buy the 9mm gun. Buy a case of 9mm ball ammo (1k rounds). Then buy two or three boxes of good performance defensive ammo, such as Winchester Ranger or Hornady Critical Defense/Duty. Then buy another case of the cheap stuff. Every time you shoot a box of the ball ammo for practice, you buy a box to replace it. If time comes you can't replace it, you don't shoot it. This way you have enough for some practice and some for emergency if you can't get it any more for whatever reason.

You can definitely find a 9mm that your wife can handle. If you haven't found one yet it is because you really haven't looked. Go look, you will find.

Now the 7.62 - the guns are cheap and the ammo is pricey and hard to find. Not rare per se but just uncommon... you are unlikely to find it at most Walmarts. It does one thing that most 9mm won't do and that is penetrate steel helmets. If you are concerned about steel helmet targets then you probably need a rifle more than a pistol.

I love my Yugo M57, it is tucked away as a fall back gun, but I have a long list of other guns and other calibers that I will go through before ending up there. YMMV but if you want a gun for real-world defense please take the recommendations to go with the 9mm.

Is it good to have a gun that uses less popular ammo to be able to weather a shortage better? sure. Is it even better to have a deep supply of a popular round that you can buy lots of when ammo is plentiful and affordable? You bet your bottom dollar it is.

User avatar
JeeperCreeper
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 2391
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:49 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Twilight... making zombies of our future generations
Location: Yo Momma's House

Re: Caliber conundrum

Post by JeeperCreeper » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:19 pm

If only there were more ammo and firearm variety for the 7.62x25. Because of that, I don't own one. I gotta go with 9mm.
They see me trollin', they hatin'.... keyboardin' tryna catch me typin' dirty
Halfapint wrote:There are some exceptions like myself and jeepercreeper.... but we are the forum asshats. We protect our positions with gusto
zero11010 wrote:The girlfriend is a good shot with a 10/22.
Her secondary offense will be nagging.

User avatar
The Twizzler
* * * *
Posts: 981
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:47 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn of the Dead
Return of the Living Dead
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: Caliber conundrum

Post by The Twizzler » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:40 am

Yes the grips are diffrent but i belive the difference problem was solved by the importer bolting a metal shim inside the grip frame if memory serves. I could be mistaken though.
woodsghost wrote:quanzi,

She shot a Buck Mk II. Bull barrel. Suppressed. She did not feel like it was "precision shooting." She really likes printing small groups with a rifle. That is her gig. She likes other .22 rifles as well. But she does not seem to like semi-autos (or she simply likes traditional stocks, and not AR lookalikes). We were shooting steel with the pistols, so that may have had something of an effect, and maybe shooting paper would change things?

I can't always explain my wife. I love her though!
(chatting with her, she just likes holding a rifle rather than a pistol. It simply appeals to her more, and I"m fine with that. If she changes her mind later, then cool)

yossarian,

I"d totally jump on a BHP or FEG. I got to put about 100 rounds through one, and really enjoyed it. Plus it is all steel, hammer fired, single action, and I love those old school tiny sights. I can find a Tok for $220, and have been unable to find FEGs in stock for less than $350. I may just be looking in the wrong places. PM me if you have a secret location? Or maybe I should just spend more time on gun broker?

raptor,

I"m with you. I"m just thinking for the price of those other pistols, I can get a Tok and 600 rounds of ammo. My thinking is that I can get that now and be ok for a year, maybe 2, if a gunpocolypse happens. If nothing happens, I can pick up one of those choices in 10-18 months. Though if my logic is not sound, I trust someone will let me know. Oh, and my gun money is fixed right now by what I can sell my less useful guns for. Things will be more flexible once some larger expenses are paid and the emergency fund is re-built.

HistoryJunkie,

Thanks for the head's up. I"ll take a look. And yeah, 40 S&W seemed pretty common (NOT 40 mm, as I posted in my OP) :?


The Twizzler,

Sadly, they cannot be switched. There are too many differences between the rounds, so the grips are literally different widths.
"Oh Bother!" said Pooh, as he drew his dagger...

zantra
BANNED
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:51 pm

Re: Caliber conundrum

Post by zantra » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:54 pm

there's no reason that you can't cast bullets for and reload 9mm. small rifle primers work just fine in 9mm. Often, there's no small pistol primers on the store shelves, but small rifle primers are there! :-) if you cast your own lead bulelts and reload, you can have 4x as much shooting as those who buy the cheapest 9mm ammo for the same cost.

delarey
* *
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:48 pm

Re: Caliber conundrum

Post by delarey » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:20 pm

Palmetto state has Taurus pt111 g2's for just over $200.
It's not the best handgun on the market, but it's better than most and conceals pretty good. That, a case of ball ammo and some defensive rounds, and you are good to go.
I liked the 7.62x25 round when your could buy a case of ammo for $100, and I had a cz52. I loved shooting it, but it was completely impractical for concealed carry. I researched the hell out of 1911's or Glocks that could be converted to run 7.62, but ended up making piece with the 9mm, because it did everything the Tok round did, better.
If a modern pistol came around chambered in the round, and I could get a ppsh43 carbine, I'd be in heaven.
If you need more speed than a 9mm, get a 357 SIG. Ammo should be easier to find than Tok ammo too, but still a PITA!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

zantra
BANNED
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:51 pm

Re: Caliber conundrum

Post by zantra » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:08 am

you can cast and reload for the 9mm and shoot for 6c per shot. Youtube has vids on how. It will cost you about $700 to get set up to turn out about 500 finished bullets per hour and 500 loaded rds per hour, so about 250 per hour, total, saving you 15-30c per shot, depending upon caliber and what you have to pay for lead, ammo, etc. So you will be making $40 an hour, which pays for $700 worth of gear in 20 hours, 5000 rds, which is just a few month's worth of shooting. I once fired 24,000 rds of .45 in 6 weeks. I literally lived at the "range" in a mess tent, using my Star Progressive reloader.

User avatar
91Eunozs
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 2034
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:16 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: All of them!
Location: Hill Country, Texas

Re: Caliber conundrum

Post by 91Eunozs » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:44 pm

longy wrote:During the .22lr ammo shortage, I switched to using .22lr only in the conversion unit of the AR. For slowfire precision stuff, I train with .177 lead pellets. For fast stuff, I use Airsoft for a lot of it. The alloy commmander, with the 9mm loads I use, has very little recoil. I've fired over 100k rds of .45 ACP in IPSC match prep, so for realistic stuff, (1-2 guys, probably not both with a gun, at 5 yds and less, the difference in recoil between 9mm and airsoft wont make a lick of difference. What's far more likely to matter will be my ducking incoming fire (or club/knife swings/thrusts) and the movement of the enemy. So there's no need of much ammo storage. Mostly just lead for casting 9mm and components for same, with a few hundred 223's and a few thousand rds of 22lr. If there's a guncolypse, nobody's going to be shooting much. If it's shtf, by the time I fire 50 rds there should be dozens of guns and 100's of rds of ammo to pick up from the dead.
Did you shoot them as warning shots from your illegally SBR'd 7" papoose or the Shorty AR with the Ciener conversion? Maybe the pocket 9...

Subsonic 60gr Aguila only of course...
Molon Latte...come & take our coffee order
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:... It's fun to play pretend, but this is the internet, and it's time to be serious.
zengunfighter wrote:... you don't want to blow a tranny in the middle of a pursuit...
woodsghost wrote:... A defensive gun without training is basically a talisman. It might ward off evil, but I wouldn't count on it.

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13474
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Time Out

Re: Caliber conundrum

Post by Stercutus » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:41 pm

longy wrote:During the .22lr ammo shortage, I switched to using .22lr only in the conversion unit of the AR. For slowfire precision stuff, I train with .177 lead pellets. For fast stuff, I use Airsoft for a lot of it. The alloy commmander, with the 9mm loads I use, has very little recoil. I've fired over 100k rds of .45 ACP in IPSC match prep, so for realistic stuff, (1-2 guys, probably not both with a gun, at 5 yds and less, the difference in recoil between 9mm and airsoft wont make a lick of difference. What's far more likely to matter will be my ducking incoming fire (or club/knife swings/thrusts) and the movement of the enemy. So there's no need of much ammo storage. Mostly just lead for casting 9mm and components for same, with a few hundred 223's and a few thousand rds of 22lr. If there's a guncolypse, nobody's going to be shooting much. If it's shtf, by the time I fire 50 rds there should be dozens of guns and 100's of rds of ammo to pick up from the dead.
Stealing from the dead is one way to go.
These days of dust
Which we've known
Will blow away with this new Son

But I'll kneel down wait for now
And I'll kneel down
Know my ground

LowKey
* * * * *
Posts: 4648
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:32 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Night of the Dead (original and remake)
Dawn of the Dead (original and remake)
Land of the Dead
Diary of the Dead
28 Days
28 Weeks
Resident Evil
Shawn of the Dead
Night of the Comet (cheese squared!)
Dead Alive (cheese cubed!!)
Location: In the Middle East, for my sins.

Re: Caliber conundrum

Post by LowKey » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:19 am

Stercutus wrote:
longy wrote:During the .22lr ammo shortage, I switched to using .22lr only in the conversion unit of the AR. For slowfire precision stuff, I train with .177 lead pellets. For fast stuff, I use Airsoft for a lot of it. The alloy commmander, with the 9mm loads I use, has very little recoil. I've fired over 100k rds of .45 ACP in IPSC match prep, so for realistic stuff, (1-2 guys, probably not both with a gun, at 5 yds and less, the difference in recoil between 9mm and airsoft wont make a lick of difference. What's far more likely to matter will be my ducking incoming fire (or club/knife swings/thrusts) and the movement of the enemy. So there's no need of much ammo storage. Mostly just lead for casting 9mm and components for same, with a few hundred 223's and a few thousand rds of 22lr. If there's a guncolypse, nobody's going to be shooting much. If it's shtf, by the time I fire 50 rds there should be dozens of guns and 100's of rds of ammo to pick up from the dead.
Stealing from the dead is one way to go.
Melvin never has been squeamish about that sort of thing.
“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” Robert A. Heinlein

Post Reply

Return to “Handguns”