Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

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Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by absinthe beginner » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:49 pm

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/02/19/ma ... arsoc-45s/

The Marine Corps has authorized MARSOC operators to carry Glock pistols, since most of the elite outfit's members prefer the popular 9mm over the custom .45 pistols the service bought them in 2012.

The Corps issued a Feb. 2 Marine Administrative Message, or MARADMIN, that green-lighted Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command, or MARSOC, units to use the Glock 19, a proven design used by many units in U.S. Special Operations Command.

The reliable, easy-to-maintain 9mm features a polymer frame and a 17-round magazine.

The Marine Corps just completed an exhaustive search for a new MARSOC pistol in 2012. The service awarded a $22.5 million contract to Colt Defense LLC., for up to 10,000 Close Quarter Battle Pistols.

The custom, 1911 design replaced the fleet of worn-out MARSOC M45 pistols. It features a rail for mounting lights, a custom trigger, a manual safety, improved ergonomics and glowing Tritium sights for low-light conditions.

As nice as the new .45s are, MARSOC troops prefer to carry Glock 19s instead, sources said.

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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by quazi » Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:57 pm

I wonder why the Glock 19 instead of the Glock 17?

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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by praharin » Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:07 pm

quazi wrote:I wonder why the Glock 19 instead of the Glock 17?
Smaller is sometimes better. The 19 offers a full sized grip while allowing more discrete carry options without giving much, if anything, up
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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by quazi » Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:57 am

praharin wrote:
quazi wrote:I wonder why the Glock 19 instead of the Glock 17?
Smaller is sometimes better. The 19 offers a full sized grip while allowing more discrete carry options without giving much, if anything, up
Would they be dressing as locals? I must admit to not understanding what MARSOC does.

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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:02 am

quazi wrote:I wonder why the Glock 19 instead of the Glock 17?
That way the compact size is more comfortable when sitting through sexual harrassment and drinking and driving trainings.
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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by quazi » Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:20 am

JeeperCreeper wrote:
quazi wrote:I wonder why the Glock 19 instead of the Glock 17?
That way the compact size is more comfortable when sitting through sexual harrassment and drinking and driving trainings.
So then what they really need are Kahr PM9 pistols and pocket holsters.

I should clarify that I'm not saying the Glock 19 is a bad choice. I like Glock pistols and the 19 is still essentially full-size.

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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by LowKey » Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:41 am

quazi wrote:
JeeperCreeper wrote:
quazi wrote:I wonder why the Glock 19 instead of the Glock 17?
That way the compact size is more comfortable when sitting through sexual harrassment and drinking and driving trainings.
So then what they really need are Kahr PM9 pistols and pocket holsters.

I should clarify that I'm not saying the Glock 19 is a bad choice. I like Glock pistols and the 19 is still essentially full-size.
Less weight (by a few grams)
Slightly shorter with and withut a suppressor.
The minimal reduction in barrel length isn't going to screw with ballistics at the ranges they're likey to be used at.
...and on occasion they may need to conceal them.
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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by Stercutus » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:07 am

quazi wrote:
praharin wrote:
quazi wrote:I wonder why the Glock 19 instead of the Glock 17?
Smaller is sometimes better. The 19 offers a full sized grip while allowing more discrete carry options without giving much, if anything, up
Would they be dressing as locals? I must admit to not understanding what MARSOC does.
This outta clear it right up:

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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by charlie fox » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:21 am

MARSOC trains indigenous forces, which have by and large been issued the G19 for whatever reason. The tool fits the task. I don't think you'll find a lot of Glocks in Marine holsters any time soon; the pistol has been issued a stock number, meaning that it is available for acquisition.that doesn't necessarily translate into issue.
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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by Matt E. » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:27 pm

charlie fox wrote: I don't think you'll find a lot of Glocks in Marine holsters any time soon; the pistol has been issued a stock number, meaning that it is available for acquisition.that doesn't necessarily translate into issue.
Too late...
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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by grennels » Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:08 pm

So.... Will the .45's hit the civilian market?
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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by gun toting monkeyboy » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:43 pm

It makes sense. Glocks hold up really well, and don't have as many problems as some other pistols do in harsh environments. And they are easy enough to get off-the-shelf parts for. Besides, they are available all over the world at this point. It isn't like they are meant to be a primary arm for the troops. And as a reliable back-up weapon, they are hard to beat. Especially if they are going to stick with 9mm. 1911s have the "cool" factor. And they use a more potent round. But they require a lot more maintenance to keep them running, and fine tuning of each particular handgun to keep them reliable. Add to that the weight of ammunition, the fact that they only hold 7-8 rounds, and the fact that they are much more complex for novice shooters to learn to manipulate, and you end up with a very clear idea of why they might want to move to Glocks. They are point and click kinds of guns.

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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by Jeriah » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:42 pm

gun toting monkeyboy wrote:It makes sense. Glocks hold up really well, and don't have as many problems as some other pistols do in harsh environments. And they are easy enough to get off-the-shelf parts for. Besides, they are available all over the world at this point. It isn't like they are meant to be a primary arm for the troops. And as a reliable back-up weapon, they are hard to beat. Especially if they are going to stick with 9mm. 1911s have the "cool" factor. And they use a more potent round. But they require a lot more maintenance to keep them running, and fine tuning of each particular handgun to keep them reliable. Add to that the weight of ammunition, the fact that they only hold 7-8 rounds, and the fact that they are much more complex for novice shooters to learn to manipulate, and you end up with a very clear idea of why they might want to move to Glocks. They are point and click kinds of guns.

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MARSOC is still limited to FMJ Ball ammo, then?
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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by Mikeyboy » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:46 pm

quazi wrote:I wonder why the Glock 19 instead of the Glock 17?
I am thinking for the same reasons the Marines wanted to dump the 1911. Length and height wise a G17 is the about the same size as a full sized 1911. A G17 is a half pound lighter than a 1911. With a G19 you get a 3/4" shorter length, 1/2" shorter height and a shave off a few more ounces in weight, and you only lose 2 rounds...unless you use G17 mags, in which case you don't lose anything.

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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by woodsghost » Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:53 pm

Jeriah wrote:
MARSOC is still limited to FMJ Ball ammo, then?
If they are still following the Geneva Convention, then yes.

I know of only one other type of round which is probably Geneva Convention legal, and one other type of round which might possibly be Geneva Convention legal. But I expect the Marines are sticking with FMJ.
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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by JeeperCreeper » Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:44 pm

woodsghost wrote:
Jeriah wrote:
MARSOC is still limited to FMJ Ball ammo, then?
If they are still following the Geneva Convention, then yes.

I know of only one other type of round which is probably Geneva Convention legal, and one other type of round which might possibly be Geneva Convention legal. But I expect the Marines are sticking with FMJ.
It's the Hague Convention. Not that it really matters, but I wanted to reply before someone flamed you about how smart they are.
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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by woodsghost » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:28 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:
woodsghost wrote:
Jeriah wrote:
MARSOC is still limited to FMJ Ball ammo, then?
If they are still following the Geneva Convention, then yes.

I know of only one other type of round which is probably Geneva Convention legal, and one other type of round which might possibly be Geneva Convention legal. But I expect the Marines are sticking with FMJ.
It's the Hague Convention. Not that it really matters, but I wanted to reply before someone flamed you about how smart they are.
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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by Hollis » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:20 pm

Mikeyboy wrote:
quazi wrote:I wonder why the Glock 19 instead of the Glock 17?
I am thinking for the same reasons the Marines wanted to dump the 1911. Length and height wise a G17 is the about the same size as a full sized 1911. A G17 is a half pound lighter than a 1911. With a G19 you get a 3/4" shorter length, 1/2" shorter height and a shave off a few more ounces in weight, and you only lose 2 rounds...unless you use G17 mags, in which case you don't lose anything.

Glock is a closed ignition system.

The 1911 is open. A SA pistol, the hammer is held back, maybe not a big issue. But it can pick up dirt or what ever between the hammer and firing pin. One of the reason for the full flap holster.

Personally H&K. Glocks are great for LEO. Also for a grunt a rifle is better. I was T/Oed on the 1911 and carried one as a MP in Oki. I really like the firearm, but Glocks and other firearms with a closed ignition system seems to be more meaningful.

As a grunt, carrying a pistol meant less ammo for my rifle. I rather have rifle ammo than a pistol. Even our Docs carried the M16.

I have a Glock in 10mm and in .45............. really great shooting pistols.

probably the other factor is fit, some cool term like biometric. The pistol that fits the most hands wins.
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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by steppenwolf » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:37 pm

Love my M45A1.
Accurate, great sights, great trigger. Has 8+1 capacity and hits hard all day long.
Best of all, it's wearing the Pony. Ain't no phony, nor a clone(y). :lol:

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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by Hollis » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:02 pm

That is a very very nice looking 1911, I love those grips.
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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by Das Sheep » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:31 pm

gun toting monkeyboy wrote:It makes sense. Glocks hold up really well, and don't have as many problems as some other pistols do in harsh environments. And they are easy enough to get off-the-shelf parts for. Besides, they are available all over the world at this point. It isn't like they are meant to be a primary arm for the troops. And as a reliable back-up weapon, they are hard to beat. Especially if they are going to stick with 9mm. 1911s have the "cool" factor. And they use a more potent round. But they require a lot more maintenance to keep them running, and fine tuning of each particular handgun to keep them reliable. Add to that the weight of ammunition, the fact that they only hold 7-8 rounds, and the fact that they are much more complex for novice shooters to learn to manipulate, and you end up with a very clear idea of why they might want to move to Glocks. They are point and click kinds of guns.

-Mb
You also have to still use pretty low velocity hard ball in the fancy 1911's and the round count leaves a lot to be desired. The Glock is also a lot easier to clean and maintain, and has no safety. It's also worlds lighter, which is important since its a backup you won't use 99.9% of the time.

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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by Hollis » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:02 pm

Das Sheep wrote: You also have to still use pretty low velocity hard ball in the fancy 1911's and the round count leaves a lot to be desired. The Glock is also a lot easier to clean and maintain, and has no safety. It's also worlds lighter, which is important since its a backup you won't use 99.9% of the time.

Glock does have safeties. http://us.glock.com/technology/safe-action

There are also double stacked 1911s, https://thefiringline.com/forums/showth ... p?t=484295

Low velocity stuff could be used for races/competition.

Weight does have a value when it comes to Whack factor.

On safeties, IMHO, the only real safety on any firearm is the person holding it.
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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by Das Sheep » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:10 pm

Hollis wrote:

Glock does have safeties. http://us.glock.com/technology/safe-action

There are also double stacked 1911s, https://thefiringline.com/forums/showth ... p?t=484295

Low velocity stuff could be used for races/competition.

Weight does have a value when it comes to Whack factor.

On safeties, IMHO, the only real safety on any firearm is the person holding it.
I know that Glock's have internal safeties and the like. Pretty much all modern production pistols do. I was talking about external safeties such as the grip and thumb safeties on the 1911.

With very few exceptions, pistols do not really get used very often by folks doing actual fighting. I can only imagine that for a weapon you might use never, the very good very reliable Glock 19 is a pretty strong and easy choice for a lot of people over a very heavy 1911.

And if you need to transition to your glock you just draw, point, shoot. No worrying about grip or the like.

For the times MARSOC might need to use the pistol as a primary, for instance for the first / second climber on a VBSS boat entry or while going up / down a ladder well on a boarded ship, a 9mm is much more controllable than a .45 for one handed shooting.

The 1911 is not a bad weapon, and they have access to a very nice variant, but the Glock 19 is also a very strong choice, and one that makes a lot of sense in most situations, and is a clear winner in others.

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Re: Marines Get to Pick Glocks in Preference to to 1911s.

Post by Hollis » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:31 pm

Das Sheep,
The other option is a Glock in .45 acp. My two favorite Glocks are in .45acp and 10mm. The discussion on 9mm = .45acp can go for ever.

There are also DA 1911s. I think the big issue will be training and how will what ever they choose work with those who use it.

H&K has some nice stuff too.

Like you, I think the Glock would be a better choice.
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