Aftermarket M&P slide release

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Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by manowar1313 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:45 pm

Hey ZS, I've been looking/hoping for a while now that someone will develop a more pronounced slide release for the M&P. Has anyone seen anything like this? And where can I get it?
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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by Stercutus » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:06 am

Don't know. But I am curious what would you want or use it for?
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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by manowar1313 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:38 am

Stercutus wrote:Don't know. But I am curious what would you want or use it for?
It's almost the Achilles heel of the M&P, I want something a little bigger so when I'm wearing gloves or sweating my balls off it's not as hard to release the slide. Below is an example of the mod done at a local shop.

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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by Frank » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:38 am

Older modeled m&p have the slightly flatter slide release. You might want to look in to a newer, more pronounced sr from the s&w factory...

or you can release the slide with your hand, you know, properly?
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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by Stercutus » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:47 am

Frank wrote:
or you can release the slide with your hand, you know, properly?
That was kind of where my mind was. A smaller slide release is an advantage for the M&P and I like it where it is. But good luck in finding one!
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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by Redeyes » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:58 am

Stercutus wrote:
Frank wrote:
or you can release the slide with your hand, you know, properly?
That was kind of where my mind was. A smaller slide release is an advantage for the M&P and I like it where it is. But good luck in finding one!
I understand why the OP would want one. Using a slide release on a pistol is faster than racking by hand, a nice thing during reloads.
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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by manowar1313 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:13 pm

I think the low-profile slide release is defeated on my M&P because the safety is so pronounced. Having a larger release would make reloads faster, also mine is a little tough to release left handed and would allow me to get more leverage.
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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by Stercutus » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:36 pm

Redeyes wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
Frank wrote:
or you can release the slide with your hand, you know, properly?
That was kind of where my mind was. A smaller slide release is an advantage for the M&P and I like it where it is. But good luck in finding one!
I understand why the OP would want one. Using a slide release on a pistol is faster than racking by hand, a nice thing during reloads.
It sure can be. It can also be a lot slower if/when things go wrong. I would say for competition shooting it would be the preferred technique. For practical shooting not so much. That is why I was curious.
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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by Frank » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:14 am

Stercutus wrote:
Redeyes wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
Frank wrote:
or you can release the slide with your hand, you know, properly?
That was kind of where my mind was. A smaller slide release is an advantage for the M&P and I like it where it is. But good luck in finding one!
I understand why the OP would want one. Using a slide release on a pistol is faster than racking by hand, a nice thing during reloads.
It sure can be. It can also be a lot slower if/when things go wrong. I would say for competition shooting it would be the preferred technique. For practical shooting not so much. That is why I was curious.
Yeah, if you miss the slide drop (which you really shouldn't be doing while wearing gloves) then you lost the few fractions of a second that you gained over hand racking
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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by Redeyes » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:53 am

Stercutus wrote:
Redeyes wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
Frank wrote:
or you can release the slide with your hand, you know, properly?
That was kind of where my mind was. A smaller slide release is an advantage for the M&P and I like it where it is. But good luck in finding one!
I understand why the OP would want one. Using a slide release on a pistol is faster than racking by hand, a nice thing during reloads.
It sure can be. It can also be a lot slower if/when things go wrong. I would say for competition shooting it would be the preferred technique. For practical shooting not so much. That is why I was curious.
I would say it depends on what you can do repeatedly under stress. You either can do reloads using the slide release reliably or you can't. Practice both, see which one works for you. If one doesn't work, but you desire the advantage the technique would give you, modify your pistol in such a way that will not affect reliability but will give the advantage you desire. Seriously, we have been doing this ever since the days of the handgonne and earlier. How do you think we got where we are today? :D
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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by Redeyes » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:17 am

Frank wrote:
Yeah, if you miss the slide drop (which you really shouldn't be doing while wearing gloves) then you lost the few fractions of a second that you gained over hand racking
Right, but you see he wanted the mod to make using the slide release more reliable. If a mod can make that technique reliable for him without making reliability suffer for the pistol what's the harm? Keep in mind, he never asked us whether he should be using slingshot or slide release, he asked us if a better slide release was available.
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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by Kelvar » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:43 am

This was heavily alluded to above, but it wasn't said explicitly, and I think it is important to spell things out sometimes, if for no other reason than we may have some lurkers (or regular members) who could benefit from an explanation.

The following is not really what the OP is asking about, but it touches on an issue that may be of interest to those who are just now learning about using firearms for self-defense.

The issue is what is the best way to reload a pistol--safely and reliably. We're talking about an emergency reload here (do they still call it that?). This is when your magazine ran dry, you've ejected the empty and (hopefully) quickly replaced it with a new, fully loaded, mag. Unlike in Hollywood movies, most pistols have a helpful feature where the slide locks back on an empty magazine after the last round is fired. This means there's no surpise or doubt about whether your pistol is empty--it is empty. So no Tequila Sunrise/Matrix cinematic moments where someone pulls a trigger only then to learn that he's run out of ammo. More importantly, this means reloading is a bit faster. Just ditch the empty, replace with a loaded mag and get the slide forward--somehow. You can either engage the slide release or you can rack the slide to achieve this effect. For practical (i.e. self-defense) training, most experts teach that it is better to rack the slide by grasping it over the top, gripping the slide with your hand like an upside down taco.

The reason is that shootouts are scary as Hell (or so I've read and firmly believe--others here can speak from personal experience, but I can't). When a human gets scared, we get a big rush of adrenaline. From an evolutionary perspective, it is easy to see the benefits of this response, but there is a downside, too. Adrenaline really messes up one's "fine motor skills". This means that doing anything calling for precise finger movements is more difficult. For this reason, the more one can use bigger, less precise, movement, the better. So the taco grip racking motion is much easier to do under stress than thumbing the slide release. Yes, know that thumbing the slide release isn't that hard when you're at the range and worried about nothing more than to see how quick you can reload. I trained and practiced that way myself for years. It worked great. But I wasn't getting shot at.

One might say, "well, I'll just use the slide release and do the taco rack if I'm ever in a gunfight." But history shows that when the shit hits the fan we fall back to routine, to whatever our brain is used to. Train like you fight, fight like you train. This is also why you shouldn't worry about where your empty magazine goes--who cares? If you survive, if you win, then maybe you can go look for it. In the police academy I was told a story about some state troopers who had been in a gunfight. They had trained shooting basic paper silhouette targets in which they simply stood there in a nice isosceles or modified weaver stance and blasted away at their targets with their revolvers (yes, this was a long time ago--even before my time). They also made a habit of taking their empty shellcasings and putting them in their pockets (so they wouldn't have to police their brass afterwards). When some of these troopers got in a gunfight, guess what they did? They pulled their weapons, stood right there, and fired at the bad guys. I won't get into what's wrong with that, because that's another topic. But there's another interesting point. Some of the troopers were murdered in that gunfight and when their bodies were searched--guess what? Some of them had empty shellcasings in their pockets. You know, shell casings they could have just dumped on the ground. But they spent valuable seconds pocketing them instead.

Long story short, train the way you should fight. Now, I don't know if what I call the taco rack is universally accepted, but it seems to be most commonly accepted among folks who know what they're talking about. Using the slide release is fine for sport or competition, though. I'm guessing that's why some companies offer the larger, more prominent, slide releases. BTW, from my limited experience, I do think the release vs. rack debate is a minor one, and either one is probably fine, because I used to be quite proficient with thumbing the release. (Admittedly, it was a much larger release on a much larger framed pistol than we typically see nowadays). But when it comes to something this serious, I figure I'll do everything I can to stack the deck in my favor. If the experts say rack vs. release, then that's what I'll do.

On topic, I'm afraid I don't know a source for what the OP seeks, but I don't criticize him for looking.


[Edited to point out that my response is not purely on topic, but of great concern to new shooters and very closely related to this issue.]
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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by Frank » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:15 pm

Well, proper tactics aside, the m&p slide release has always been pronounced enough for me to release while wearing gloves. I never really train wearing gloves with pistols, but that's because my fighting loadout only gets worn for rifle training or, god forbid, actual rifle fighting.

Here's an example of the slide release (please excuse my dirty gun)

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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by Phoenix David » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:57 pm

manowar1313 wrote:I think the low-profile slide release is defeated on my M&P because the safety is so pronounced. Having a larger release would make reloads faster, also mine is a little tough to release left handed and would allow me to get more leverage.
Remove the safety it's not needed and the plug for the hole is only a few dollars. Or you could replace the TS SHB with a standard SHB and sell it.
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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by manowar1313 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:14 pm

Phoenix David wrote:
manowar1313 wrote:I think the low-profile slide release is defeated on my M&P because the safety is so pronounced. Having a larger release would make reloads faster, also mine is a little tough to release left handed and would allow me to get more leverage.
Remove the safety it's not needed and the plug for the hole is only a few dollars. Or you could replace the TS SHB with a standard SHB and sell it.
I personally have no difficulty with the thumb safety and practice a safety release draw. An example of why I prefer the safety would be when I take Joe Public to the range to teach him to shoot and He-Man in the next stall starts rapid firing his .357, I want a layer of protection between Joe and a flinching accidental discharge.
Now about my reloading habits, I personally prefer a magazine bump and racking the slide if needed. I ALSO practice using the slide release since there are situations which that is needed/better, specifically reloading one handed, speed shooting and Glocks, I personally have a hard time grabbing their slides with any type of moisture on my hands, hence why I own a M&P and not a g19.

Now back to the question: Has anyone seen bigger thumb releases for a M&P?

Also a video on magazine bumping:
[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4uyFOZY3bg[/YouTube]
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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by williaty » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:03 pm

manowar1313 wrote:
Stercutus wrote:Don't know. But I am curious what would you want or use it for?
It's almost the Achilles heel of the M&P, I want something a little bigger so when I'm wearing gloves or sweating my balls off it's not as hard to release the slide. Below is an example of the mod done at a local shop.

Image
Read your manual closely. Smith refers to it as a slide stop and specifically says NOT to use it to release the slide. The only Smith-approved way to release the slide is to pull it back and release it. They explicitly don't want you thumbing the lever downwards to release it.

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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by manowar1313 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:58 am

williaty wrote:
manowar1313 wrote:
Stercutus wrote:Don't know. But I am curious what would you want or use it for?
It's almost the Achilles heel of the M&P, I want something a little bigger so when I'm wearing gloves or sweating my balls off it's not as hard to release the slide. Below is an example of the mod done at a local shop.

Image
Read your manual closely. Smith refers to it as a slide stop and specifically says NOT to use it to release the slide. The only Smith-approved way to release the slide is to pull it back and release it. They explicitly don't want you thumbing the lever downwards to release it.
So what you are saying is that under 100% of all tactical situations where you could possibly need to close the slide you would NEVER use the slide stop and that you COULD never see yourself using anything but the S&W approved method of slide closing?
I think this conversation took a turn from what I was asking to everyone posing their opinion on using a slide stop, so I guess if you have an ACTUAL answer PM me.
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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by williaty » Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:19 pm

manowar1313 wrote:So what you are saying is that under 100% of all tactical situations where you could possibly need to close the slide you would NEVER use the slide stop and that you COULD never see yourself using anything but the S&W approved method of slide closing?
Actually, yeah, that's what I'm saying for two main reasons.

First, Smith gains nothing by telling owners not to do this. It's not a CYA move. The only reason that makes sense for them to say it is if they know it, over time, damages some part of the firearm. The last thing I want is for the time that I really fucking need the gun to work to be the time that using the slide stop as a release turns out to screw something up and give me a gun that won't run properly.

Second, ergonomically, the slide stop on a M&P is not advantageously placed. It's hard to access and under a lot of friction. I, and everyone I've ever taught to shoot using this gun, has to break their strong hand grip to get to the slide stop. There's no conceivable situation in which it's going to be easier to break your grip, get a thumb onto it, and force the slide stop down to release the slide than it would the to release the slide by moving it rearwards slightly. Two hands, one hand, cold, hot, wet, bloody, it's going to be easier to either pull back on the slide or bump it against something that it's going to be to try to get the slide stop down under load with a thumb.
I think this conversation took a turn from what I was asking to everyone posing their opinion on using a slide stop, so I guess if you have an ACTUAL answer PM me.
You asked how to do something that's potentially a bad idea. When that happens on a public forum, it's worth at least noting that there are potentially good reasons not to do this.

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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by Stercutus » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:31 am

Man- I wasn't throwing poo around just to do it. If that is what you want to do go ahead. If you ask how to cut your barrel down to one inch we will try to you how while at the same time telling you why it is a bad idea.
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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by kelub » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:44 pm

I'm surprised no one mentioned this, but on the M&P's simply inserting the magazine with proper force will automatically release the slide and chamber the round. It's mentioned in the manual as a warning that excessive force "may" release the slide ("may" is an understatement - it'll do it rather consistently.) It's a well known "feature" of the series - I wouldn't advocate for it at the gun range, but in a SHTF situation it beats fumbling for the slide release.

It's a common thread on the SW forums as well - some who are huge fans of it, others who steer clear of it. I'm not advocating one way or another, just figured it was worth mentioning.

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Re: Aftermarket M&P slide release

Post by crypto » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:02 pm

Be advised that a big gnarly slide stop may impinge on a rigid holster and make drawing a much higher-friction event. I saw a guy pay too much money for a big stupid 1911 slide stop, then get all butthurt when none of his holsters worked anymore.

He ended up taking it back off, but couldnt send it back as he had already filed it to make it run in his pistol.
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