Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by Gingerbread Man » Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:49 pm

Snarky word smithing does not fix the gun.
Lied about what you said? You said the sticky slide was fine. No, it's not. You put a clapping smiley when you said the burrs were ok.
A gun writer with way more cred has reported poorly on a gun you said was great.

Lastly, I guess you missed when I was talking about buying one so how can I have out of hand dismissed it. It's not sensationalism to say this gun has serious issue, Jesus, the sight about dropped out of MAC'S, yours has burrs, and both have super stiff slides. Those are serious quality control issues.

Disingenuous review is disingenuous.
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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by Brianww2e45 » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:58 pm

Gingerbread Man wrote:Snarky word smithing does not fix the gun.
Lied about what you said? You said the sticky slide was fine. No, it's not. You put a clapping smiley when you said the burrs were ok.
A gun writer with way more cred has reported poorly on a gun you said was great.

Lastly, I guess you missed when I was talking about buying one so how can I have out of hand dismissed it. It's not sensationalism to say this gun has serious issue, Jesus, the sight about dropped out of MAC'S, yours has burrs, and both have super stiff slides. Those are serious quality control issues.

Disingenuous review is disingenuous.
Disingenuous how? I never said the sticky slide was "fine." There you go, inventing things again. But when you lack experience, I guess that's where you have to fall back to.

I pointed out every problem I had. I also stated it wasn't acceptable, and it was sloppy. I stated Remington has a lot of explaining to do. I didn't say "This is a great gun." I stated that the gun shot extremely well for me, burrs aside.

I said "Remington kindly left burrs on the slide." I take it they don't have sarcasm on Planet Smug?

I didn't review MAC's gun. I stated my EXPERIENCE (of which, you have none, making your comments all the more irrelevant) with the particular gun I had. If my sights fell off, I certainly wouldn't have been very pleased with my EXPERIENCE. But since that didn't happen to me, I can only say what I did EXPERIENCE (I keep capitalizing the word, just for you) was a gun with an unacceptably sticky slide, that shot very well for me.

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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by Gingerbread Man » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:04 pm

Sorry if I was being overly dickish, I was. I apologize. I guess I took my entire frustration about this gun being horrible out on you. There have been so many glowing reports but with street reviews being anything but. I wanted this gun to be an unqualified success. I'm pissed about it. They said it was going to be super compact, it's not. They said it was going to have a super easy slide rack, it doesn't. It was going to have a match trigger but has no reset. I could go on.

I'm mad this didn't roll out right. Sorry, I pointed that displeasure at you.

I'll go do some push ups and chill out. Good luck with the gun.
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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by Brianww2e45 » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:08 pm

Gingerbread Man wrote:Sorry if I was being overly dickish, I was. I apologize. I guess I took my entire frustration about this gun being horrible out on you. There have been so many glowing reports but with street reviews being anything but. I wanted this gun to be an unqualified success. I'm pissed about it. They said it was going to be super compact, it's not. They said it was going to have a super easy slide rack, it doesn't. It was going to have a match trigger but has no reset. I could go on.

I'm mad this didn't roll out right. Sorry, I pointed that displeasure at you.

I'll go do some push ups and chill out. Good luck with the gun.
I can't speak to all Remington R51's. Mine had/has a tougher slide than was advertised. Not impressed with that aspect at all. It's unacceptable that Remington released a weapon with this problem.

However, beyond that, I'm very pleased with how I shot the weapon. That is 1000x's more important to me than the stout slide pull. I'd compare it to a grittier XD-s slide.

I appreciate that you're disappointed, but I assure you, I am not defending the release of this gun. It was botched.

Regardless, apology accepted. No hard feelings. :D

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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by steppenwolf » Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:54 pm

I can't speak to all Remington R51's.
They're junk. Get rid of them. :shock:

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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by Sworbeyegib » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:54 pm

I wonder if Remington will start telling their consumers that their R51 needs a "fluff and buff" or wear in period, like Kel-tec does.
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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by crypto » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:05 pm

Sworbeyegib wrote:I wonder if Remington will start telling their consumers that their R51 needs a "fluff and buff" or wear in period, like Kel-tec does 1911 vendors do.
FTFY :D
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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by Sworbeyegib » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:59 pm

crypto wrote:
Sworbeyegib wrote:I wonder if Remington will start telling their consumers that their R51 needs a "fluff and buff" or wear in period, like Kel-tec does 1911 vendors do.
FTFY :D
It hurts me because it's true.
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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by ArmchairRacer » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:44 am

I got to handle one of these in a gun store yesterday. I will never even consider buying one, not unless they drop the price to $200. The slide was much harder to draw than was advertised, which is the least of the issues I had. It's big and heavy and single stack. The trigger left a LOT to be desired. And I'm not really sure how to feel about the grip safety, you certainly know when it disengages with a loud click. I don't like grip safeties as a rule and I definitely don't like this one any better than the grip safety on a 1911 or XD.

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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by crypto » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:14 am

Sworbeyegib wrote:
crypto wrote:
Sworbeyegib wrote:I wonder if Remington will start telling their consumers that their R51 needs a "fluff and buff" or wear in period, like Kel-tec does 1911 vendors do.
FTFY :D
It hurts me because it's true.
Karma is a bitch. My new tavor also needed 500 rounds through it before it would digest steel-case ammo without short-stroking.
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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by Gingerbread Man » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:09 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yicodN7B ... qV3xJvbk6g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL20Crog ... v1nT4Y4Sig" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucq-oeqrRuw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Gingerbread Man on Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by feedthedog » Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:14 pm

Poor little R51 wants so badly to work...

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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by Gingerbread Man » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:56 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TSZmkJM ... qV3xJvbk6g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The neckbeard says "Nah, dawg."
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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by Redeyes » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:21 am

The ejection on that gun is nearly transitional 3rd gen Glock erratic.
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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by TheLastOne » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:27 pm

not enough spring for the firing pin to activate the tougher primers? I wanted out of this thread, but for fucks sake what a bad gun. Unfortunate. A gun should not need break in. Your leather holster might. A gun has one job. Go home remington you suck.
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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by crypto » Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:38 pm

TheLastOne wrote:not enough spring for the firing pin to activate the tougher primers? I wanted out of this thread, but for fucks sake what a bad gun. Unfortunate. A gun should not need break in. Your leather holster might. A gun has one job. Go home remington you suck.

I'm betting that theres some underlying clearance issue that gets worse when the gun gets hot that is impinging on everything: The internal striker safety, the slide, etc.


Honestly, they're looking at a 'whoa lets fucking stop making these, collect the ones we have, and adjust fire' type of recall soon.
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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by KentsOkay » Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:39 pm

Nooooooooooo I wanted this gun to work so badly!

Still need to find one to finger bang
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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by Gingerbread Man » Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:06 pm

I'm going to say with most certainty the problem with this gun is the locking block being in the slide. That's why he wasn't getting firing pin strikes, the locking block was out of alignment and the firing pin was stuck. The reason it's locking up after firing is probably carbon + impingement of the locking block. That's why the slide isn't racking or is stiff, that's why it's locking up with +P. I believe the Pedersen design needs some looseness to it which is why it's best suited for 32 and 380 ACP with low power rds and an all steel construction.

I don't see this ever working well. Sorry, they should have stuck with the Browning locking design, just do a single stack 9mm with a Glock type caming trigger with an aluminum frame and a steel slide. There, not original but neither is the Pedersen. S&W did it with the Shield, just do a metal framed Shield. Or an inexpensive single stack 1911, not my thing but Remington killed themselves with this. It's not original but neither is the 1911 they came out with either.

JMO, but someone at the sales/marketing/engineering meeting should have said something.
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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by feedthedog » Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:50 pm

Gingerbread Man wrote:I'm going to say with most certainty the problem with this gun is the locking block being in the slide. That's why he wasn't getting firing pin strikes, the locking block was out of alignment and the firing pin was stuck. The reason it's locking up after firing is probably carbon + impingement of the locking block. That's why the slide isn't racking or is stiff, that's why it's locking up with +P. I believe the Pedersen design needs some looseness to it which is why it's best suited for 32 and 380 ACP with low power rds and an all steel construction.

I don't see this ever working well. Sorry, they should have stuck with the Browning locking design, just do a single stack 9mm with a Glock type caming trigger with an aluminum frame and a steel slide. There, not original but neither is the Pedersen. S&W did it with the Shield, just do a metal framed Shield. Or an inexpensive single stack 1911, not my thing but Remington killed themselves with this. It's not original but neither is the 1911 they came out with either.

JMO, but someone at the sales/marketing/engineering meeting should have said something.
Or you would have figured they would have done a bit more QA/QC on this thing. The problem seems to be pretty readily apparent, the slide refuses to cooperate and the sights fall off. It's not like a one in a thousand sort of problem...

It may just be my opinion, but a disastrous product launch is much worse than a late launch.

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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by ghost792 » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:44 am

Gingerbread Man wrote:I believe the Pedersen design needs some looseness to it which is why it's best suited for 32 and 380 ACP with low power rds and an all steel construction.
I agree that the current R51 is having some issues, but your statement doesn't make sense in light of the original Model 53 in .45ACP. Reliability of the M53 was at least as good as the M1911 of the day, if not better. The linked article mentions that the M53 used in the navy tests had previously fired over 6000 rounds while the M1911 and the other competitor pistol were both 0 round guns. Even though the weapon was already worn, it had the same number of failures in the 5000 round endurance test as the brand new M1911. The M53 was tested favorably by both the US navy and army and, had the M1911 not have already been in full production, the M53 might very well have become the standard sidearm of the American military.

So clearly, the Pedersen design is capable of handling more powerful cartridges than just .32 and .380.

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Re: Remington R51 sub compact 9X19 +P

Post by Gingerbread Man » Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:11 pm

Its not about the power of the cartridge, it's about chamber pressure. The chamber pressure of the 9mm+P is way higher than the normal 9mm. Hence why it's locking up on them. The 32, 380 and 45 acp from 85-100 years ago is way lower than what they are today. This is why this gun runs okay with 9fmj and not with +p.

Chamber pressure 45 ACP: 21-23K
9mm-31-35K.
9mm+P 38.5K
32 ACP 20.5K
308 ACP 21K

That's around 10K ft lbs of pressure difference between the ACPs and the 9mm. Then they shrunk the whole thing down to a little larger than the 380 version without the steel construction of the frame.
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