Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

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Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by Redsaber75 » Sun May 12, 2013 8:31 pm

How do you set yours up?

Any different from how you carry it?

http://homeguntraining.com/2013/05/06/s ... se-pistol/

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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by Stercutus » Sun May 12, 2013 9:15 pm

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An extended barrel improves accuracy and terminal performance by allowing the bullet to stabilize and spin up to a faster speed.

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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sun May 12, 2013 9:53 pm

When planning out home defense, the firearm is treated as the last line of defense, today we are going to fortify that last line of defense.

Flashlight
I like the L3 Insight Pistol mounted flashlight because it takes AA batteries that are regularly available compared to the CR123 batteries.
There is also a model with a laser sight that mount directly below the bore
Extended Magazine
33 rounds of 9mm or 22 rounds of .40 Smith and Wesson
Extra weight helps control muzzle rise during rapid fire. Not really. The weight is at the rear, the muzzle is at the front. Muzzle flip is best controlled by a proper grip and training, not by throwing a hatestick in your gat.
Stick with the Glock brand magazines
Hollowpoint ammunition
Hornady Critical Defense
Corbon DPX
Federal Premium
Night Sights
Trijicons are solid night sights.
Extended Barrel (optional)
An extended barrel fractionally improves terminal performance by allowing the bullet to spin up to a faster speed.Again, false. An extended barrel will give you negligible increase in muzzle velocity, which may or may not increase the risk of nonperformance of the hollowpoints that were designed to be used with the standard barrel, in addition to being easier to snag and more likely to knock the pistol out of battery.
I like Lone Wolf Distributors barrels a lot simply because you can convert .40 S&W Glock over to a 9mm.
Grip Force Adapter (optional)
I’d consider these optional for home defense and carry. I’ve come to like them though.
The same concepts apply to other pistols as well.

You can put a KRISS magazine on a Glock 21
You can install night sights on any pistol
The vast majority of modern handguns are equipped with a rail to mount a flashlight.
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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by PistolPete » Sun May 12, 2013 10:27 pm

A longer barrel is something I'd agree with in the recommendation. A longer barrel gives you less muzzle flash, which alone could be worth it when used in the dark. And depending on the cartridge, you are getting 5-10% more energy with an extra inch of barrel, which is not insubstantial.
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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sun May 12, 2013 10:38 pm

PistolPete wrote:A longer barrel is something I'd agree with in the recommendation. A longer barrel gives you less muzzle flash, which alone could be worth it when used in the dark. And depending on the cartridge, you are getting 5-10% more energy with an extra inch of barrel, which is not insubstantial.
I'd be interested to see a scientific investigation of the flash of the factory barrel vs an extended barrel. I don't think 50FPS is gonna be a big enough gain to warrant the cost, and I've not noticed a difference in muzzle flash between compacts and full-size guns in the same caliber, but that's not scientific, just a guess. The added energy isn't a sticking point for me, because I pick loads based on how they perform in the factory barrel, and adding 5% more velocity won't make the bullet expand more. That's personal preference.

It still has nothing to do with "letting the bullet spin up faster."
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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by feedthedog » Sun May 12, 2013 10:40 pm

Why not just get a 34/35 and get the longer barrel as well as a longer sight radius?

i'm not sure how many bullets I might need in a home defense pistol, but 33 seems like a lot. Additionally, I don't see that fitting into a quick access gun safe. Maybe a base pad extender if you really want more bullets.

The flashlight is obviously a good call, and I just noticed that CT is offering flashlights now. Looks cool. I think that may go on my next pistol.

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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by rednekrampager » Sun May 12, 2013 11:12 pm

Tagged for further interest .


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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by ancient_serpent » Mon May 13, 2013 12:11 am

My bed stand gun is a Kimber Warrior or Kimber Pro CDP II, 8 round magazines. I also have an AR with a mounted Surefire and red dot optic next to it.

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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by Phoenix David » Mon May 13, 2013 12:29 am

Flashlight yes, night sights yes

The rest of that crap no for the reasons stated above.

I hope the OP isn't HGT as I find his listed training resume as rather dubious. Lots of "seminars" not much training.
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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by Spd164 » Mon May 13, 2013 12:55 am

Phoenix David wrote:Flashlight yes, night sights yes

The rest of that crap no for the reasons stated above.

I hope the OP isn't HGT as I find his listed training resume as rather dubious. Lots of "seminars" not much training.
This and this. Also, lots of focus on "stick fighting" and knives in his choices of seminars to attend...

That, coupled with the tacticool choices of accessories for his HD pistol just screams "mall ninja of unusually large size" to me. But hey, who am I to argue with an NRA certified firearms instructor who is obviously a SME on such things?
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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by TDW586 » Mon May 13, 2013 1:08 am

I don't have a problem with the Grip Force Adapter, they're good kit. The extended magazine, hell, why not, as long as it's OEM or vetted higher quality. The extended barrel puts this over the top for me.

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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by Sworbeyegib » Mon May 13, 2013 2:29 am

The set up may be the authors perferred set up, but its far from a good general set up guide for more people. I don't really like the longer barrels without an extended slide for a longer sight radius. I'd say that first priority is a weapon light, or making absolutely sure a light is always paired with your primary home handgun. Second is the night sights. Everything else is just personal pref.

Of course, myself and many others on here will advocate a long gun for HD.
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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by Gingerbread Man » Mon May 13, 2013 5:30 am

What always gets me about these articles is they promote buying the gun then immediately or shortly there after buying a bunch of crap to throw on it. Before you buy the extended barrel, cool, in theory I agree, but burn the original barrel out first. Extended mag, fine, but a +2 extension cost $10 and gives you 19 rds in the gun if you run a Glock 17 mag. If you can't figure it out with 19 rds then maybe you should have spent the money on ammo at the range than a $50 33 rd mag.

I didn't read the article but does it address a belt? A second light? How about holster? Mag pouches? Less lethal options? Or is it just buy a gun, throw some stuff on it and wait until the zombies show up? Anything about testing those hollowpoints to make sure they work in the gun?
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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by Stercutus » Mon May 13, 2013 7:56 am

feedthedog wrote:Why not just get a 34/35 and get the longer barrel as well as a longer sight radius?
I am more inclined to agree with this. The gain from 3-5" can be nice. Having the extended barrel without the sight radius is simply buying trouble. And since no one mentioned it... OP barrel twist rate is the primary factory in determining how fast a bullet spins. Longer barrels in most cases increase velocity depending upon the round and the length of the barrel.

If I really believed that I needed 33 round pistol magazines there is no way I would be doing whatever it was with a pistol. I'd bring a rifle, a buddy and have him bring his rifle.

But hey, who am I to argue with an NRA certified firearms instructor who is obviously a SME on such things?
It does explain a lot about some things at some classes I have attended.

I didn't read the article but does it address a belt? A second light? How about holster? Mag pouches? Less lethal options? Or is it just buy a gun, throw some stuff on it and wait until the zombies show up?
I think it was that last one.
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Will blow away with this new Son

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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by RickOShea » Mon May 13, 2013 10:32 am

feedthedog wrote:
The flashlight is obviously a good call, and I just noticed that CT is offering flashlights now. Looks cool. I think that may go on my next pistol.

Image
I got one of those a while back to try-out. I don't know if the models for other pistols vary in design and construction, but the one I got for an XDm was just......flimsy.

It has two small, skinny screws that hold the whole thing together. You have to get those screws torqued juuuuust right (not too much, not too little) or the light won't come on. Even when I thought I had the screws at the "sweet spot", the light would still flicker sometimes when I shot it (hell, it would even occasionally flicker when dry-firing).

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Recently, I got a couple of Inforce APLs to try-out. They're ugly-as-sin, but I shoot "lefty" so I'm liking the design of the switches on the APL (ya just gotta be extra careful about light NDs).


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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by Spd164 » Mon May 13, 2013 1:12 pm

RickOShea wrote:
feedthedog wrote:
The flashlight is obviously a good call, and I just noticed that CT is offering flashlights now. Looks cool. I think that may go on my next pistol.

Image
I got one of those a while back to try-out. I don't know if the models for other pistols vary in design and construction, but the one I got for an XDm was just......flimsy.

It has two small, skinny screws that hold the whole thing together. You have to get those screws torqued juuuuust right (not too much, not too little) or the light won't come on. Even when I thought I had the screws at the "sweet spot", the light would still flicker sometimes when I shot it (hell, it would even occasionally flicker when dry-firing).

Image

Recently, I got a couple of Inforce APLs to try-out. They're ugly-as-sin, but I shoot "lefty" so I'm liking the design of the switches on the APL (ya just gotta be extra careful about light NDs).


Image

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I dunno. Kinda makes your XD look all ray-gun-ish. I sorta like the look. What's the output on it and what's the construction like? I'd google for myself but I'm on my phone.
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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by feedthedog » Mon May 13, 2013 1:31 pm

The APL is new to me, and it is damn ugly but in a good way. I was kind of pondering getting an XDm 5.25 as a new HD pistol. I'd imagine that an APL would look sick on there.

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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by RickOShea » Mon May 13, 2013 1:35 pm

Spd164 wrote: What's the output on it and what's the construction like? I'd google for myself but I'm on my phone.
The specs are: "fiber composite" body, LED, 200 lumens, single CR123 battery that inserts in the front, and a supposed run time of 1.5 hours.

They say it won't work on a PX4 or USP......But a couple of licks on the inside top corners of the switches with a flat file, and it worked just fine.

Here's their site: http://www.inforce-mil.com/pistol-lights.php
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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by Spd164 » Mon May 13, 2013 6:51 pm

RickOShea wrote: The specs are: "fiber composite" body, LED, 200 lumens, single CR123 battery that inserts in the front, and a supposed run time of 1.5 hours.
Thanks for the info. The "fiber composite" construction worries me a little and is the reason I run a TLR-1. It may not be the brightest or the lightest (heh, get it?) but I'll be damned if I can't pound nails with the sonuvabitch. It certainly makes an effective bludgeon as well, when used in such a capacity at contact distance :ohdear:

Wonder how the insight would stand up to being slapped against concrete block walls, metal doors, or the top of a struggling bad guy's head (all of which my TLR has withstood either accidentally or on purpose).

Literally, I'm wondering. I'd like to see a couple reviews from end users who put their pistols through their paces before I shell out the $120 they are asking for it. That's not a bad price point by the way, if it performs as well or better as the TLR or x300 they really might be on to something.
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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by feedthedog » Mon May 13, 2013 7:33 pm

Spd164 wrote:
RickOShea wrote: The specs are: "fiber composite" body, LED, 200 lumens, single CR123 battery that inserts in the front, and a supposed run time of 1.5 hours.
Thanks for the info. The "fiber composite" construction worries me a little and is the reason I run a TLR-1. It may not be the brightest or the lightest (heh, get it?) but I'll be damned if I can't pound nails with the sonuvabitch. It certainly makes an effective bludgeon as well, when used in such a capacity at contact distance :ohdear:

Wonder how the insight would stand up to being slapped against concrete block walls, metal doors, or the top of a struggling bad guy's head (all of which my TLR has withstood either accidentally or on purpose).

Literally, I'm wondering. I'd like to see a couple reviews from end users who put their pistols through their paces before I shell out the $120 they are asking for it. That's not a bad price point by the way, if it performs as well or better as the TLR or x300 they really might be on to something.
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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by MaconCJ7 » Mon May 13, 2013 8:02 pm

A light, night sites, and some low light training are good for an HD pistol. Honestly though, a long gun is my HD choice. The pistol is there of course, but it's not what I grab first. Handguns are what I carry on the town. I don't have people calling the cops on me because my rifle is at my side in my own house.
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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by williaty » Tue May 14, 2013 1:35 am

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:It still has nothing to do with "letting the bullet spin up faster."
Actually, he was right about that, but I have a feeling he has no idea why he was right about that. Rotational velocity is a function of only two things: rifling twist rate and muzzle velocity. In pistols, a longer barrel usually results in higher muzzle velocity (though how much higher is quite variable). Higher muzzle velocity through the same twist is going to spin the bullet at a higher rotational velocity. However, the OP doesn't strike me as having a good enough grasp of physics to have thought through that and his justification is more likely to be "because magic".

Now, that extra rotational velocity didn't buy you anything. Once the bullet is spinning fast enough to be stable, adding more spin doesn't increase the final accuracy of the gun. In fact, too much spin will result in over-stabilization and that will actually HURT accuracy. So, while his statement is technically correct in that higher muzzle velocities from longer barrels produce higher rotational velocities, it's also entirely pointless because it doesn't improve accuracy any.

Plus what you said about needing the bullet to be inside the design velocity range for proper expansion. More isn't always better.

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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Tue May 14, 2013 4:35 am

williaty wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:It still has nothing to do with "letting the bullet spin up faster."
Actually, he was right about that, but I have a feeling he has no idea why he was right about that. Rotational velocity is a function of only two things: rifling twist rate and muzzle velocity. In pistols, a longer barrel usually results in higher muzzle velocity (though how much higher is quite variable). Higher muzzle velocity through the same twist is going to spin the bullet at a higher rotational velocity. However, the OP doesn't strike me as having a good enough grasp of physics to have thought through that and his justification is more likely to be "because magic".

Now, that extra rotational velocity didn't buy you anything. Once the bullet is spinning fast enough to be stable, adding more spin doesn't increase the final accuracy of the gun. In fact, too much spin will result in over-stabilization and that will actually HURT accuracy. So, while his statement is technically correct in that higher muzzle velocities from longer barrels produce higher rotational velocities, it's also entirely pointless because it doesn't improve accuracy any.

Plus what you said about needing the bullet to be inside the design velocity range for proper expansion. More isn't always better.
I see what you're saying, but I think in terms of twist rates. Adding 6 inches to a 1:12" twist barrel doesnlt make it spin faster, it just (usually) gives it more time to burn the powder and more velocity, so it crosses that 12" faster.

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Re: Article: Setting Up a Home Defense Pistol

Post by LivelyToaster » Tue May 14, 2013 5:08 am

Spd164 wrote:
RickOShea wrote:
feedthedog wrote:
The flashlight is obviously a good call, and I just noticed that CT is offering flashlights now. Looks cool. I think that may go on my next pistol.

Image
I got one of those a while back to try-out. I don't know if the models for other pistols vary in design and construction, but the one I got for an XDm was just......flimsy.

It has two small, skinny screws that hold the whole thing together. You have to get those screws torqued juuuuust right (not too much, not too little) or the light won't come on. Even when I thought I had the screws at the "sweet spot", the light would still flicker sometimes when I shot it (hell, it would even occasionally flicker when dry-firing).

Image

Recently, I got a couple of Inforce APLs to try-out. They're ugly-as-sin, but I shoot "lefty" so I'm liking the design of the switches on the APL (ya just gotta be extra careful about light NDs).


Image

Image
I dunno. Kinda makes your XD look all ray-gun-ish. I sorta like the look. What's the output on it and what's the construction like? I'd google for myself but I'm on my phone.
I have to second that opinion lol. It does make your XD look like it belongs in Star Wars.

I looked at those Inforce APLs at my LGS... Doesn't feel cheaply made and have nice output but I haven't bought any to replace my TLRs or X300s. I also didn't like the left/right toggle buttons. I prefer the TLR and X300 seesaw up/down switch. LGS has not had any warranty returns on them yet.

Side note: The fiber composite construction (just benefit of the doubt here... could be wrong, being optimistic) may not be a bad thing... Remember people questioned the reliability of tactical plastic pistols when they first hit the market and it did turn out they hold up just as well, if not better than, steel. The only current foreseeable downside at the moment to me would be holster accommodation should one select it as a tactical pistol duty light.

The chances of it happening are probably in the 0.0000001% level but it'd reeeeeeeaaaaaaallllly suck to have an accidental/negligent discharge while thwacking a baddy in the head with a pistol mounted light. Not disagreeing with the tactic, I'd do it too in a violent struggle with no other immediately accessible bludgeoning devices, just an observation.

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