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 Post subject: Lights Out
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:08 pm 
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So, I've recently learned of this new book "Lights Out" by Ted Koppel the newsman. It's gotten great reviews so far from the mass media, but I wonder what the squad thinks of it?

For those of you unfamiliar, it is a decidedly non-fiction book. Mr. Koppel heard a rumor that America has no plan for a wide-scale blackout other than three days of fema food, and upon learning that the rumor is actually true he decided to write an expose' on the problem over the next two years.

I have to say, I'm really chomping at the bit to get my hands on a copy.

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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:26 pm 
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I'd imagine the original work of fiction on the same topic by Halfast (David Crawford) would be better (and free!) but to each his own.

http://files.meetup.com/3499102/Lights_Out.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:41 pm 
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I have not Koppel's version. But I very much enjoyed Crawford's book, have a paper copy on my shelf. :clap:


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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:03 pm 
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Still think One Second After is the definitive book on EMP and TEOTWAWKI.


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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:39 pm 
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While I won't argue against One Second After, I think Lights Out ties with it. It's just two solutions to the problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:12 am 
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I have been reading halffast's book for two days straight now. Thanks for that, ya jerks. :awesome:

But Koppel's book is non-fiction. It goes through and shows the vulnerabilities and then talks to social psychologists, emergency workers, etc. about what can be expected in the event of a mass blackout, which the book makes the case that such a thing is inevitable. It also talks about what people can do to better prepare for such a disintegration of society in general, and lays plans for what the government can do from now until that happens to make it less terrible.

I'm ordering a copy as soon as I get back to the states for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:47 pm 
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Oh for heaven's sake. I've just heard Ted Koppel on the news talking about the subject of this book and I have to admit I'm in Prepper Panic at this moment.

Seriously, it's one thing for me to 'believe' unhesitatingly that I must prepare for natural and financial disasters as well as those pesky food not getting to the grocery stores for any number of reasons that are easily foreseen. And slowly but actively adding to my preps. But when this guy who has been a staple news reporter for decades comes on the news with his two year researched book and says straight into the camera:

(paraphrasing)
Consequences. You 'must' start now preparing for survival for 'when' this happens. This is going to happen. The consequences are going to last for one to two years. No electricity, no electricity to pump gas for home generators, no electricity to pump natural gas. No electricity for local, state, & national governments to even talk to each other to implement those small & faulty disaster relief plans they've come up with so far. No electricity to pump the fuel to run the trucks, sea craft, and air craft to get anything to anybody. Infrastructure and everything else is going to fall apart. People are going to starve, be killed, freeze, die of thirst & illness. Basically the worst case scenario anyone on ours or any survival boards and in entertainment/literature. (fiction, speculation, & non-fiction) And this is outside of actually getting the powers that be to take action on making national, state, and local contingencies for when this happens. And even such plans will be superfluous to the survival of the overwhelming majority of the population. And this disaster is currently cyber-embedded in our electrical power system by State superpowers.. right now, but are not being activated because of the exchange being used among our countries. But just behind them are those States and groups that are actively working on conquering and expanding.





And I went into nervous system meltdown.

He's saying prep everything for a minimum of a year, and two full years of everything is probably more likely, just to live until infrastructure is minimally restored.

I turned around my place and counted 6 months food, three weeks water & portable water filter system for water I can locate after that for a year, no solar chargers for even small things, woeful med supplies (what acronym do we use for med supplies?), and not much of anything else.


Last edited by zombiepreparation on Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:56 pm 
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* strokes zombiepreparation on the forehead *

"There, there Zombie Preparation don't let the scary man on his book tour pimping his book scare you into buying his book... you can always download to Kindle later for a nothing if you just wait it out....

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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:16 pm 
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Thanks, I needed that. Plus I don't need the book so I'm not looking to buy, thank goodness. Just about everything I need to know is covered somewhere here in ZS. My (subsiding even as I type) meltdown came from the weight of him being household nationally known for decades saying 'now now, do it now' in that calm certain voice of his.... and me looking around at what I have, going 'fraaaaaaaaaaaaak'.


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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:52 pm 
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Look at it this way:

If the grid goes down and stays down long term for a year or two and there are no deliveries of diesel fuel to nuclear power plants we will all die anyway.

Like just about everyone.

So I would not worry about it.


ETA - The word "diesel"

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Last edited by Stercutus on Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:06 pm 
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Stercutus wrote:
Look at it this way:

If the grid goes down and stays down long term for a year or two and there are no deliveries of fuel to nuclear power plants we will all die anyway.

Like just about everyone.

So I would not worry about it.


Just curious... what do you mean by that?


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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:50 pm 
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Langadune wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
Look at it this way:

If the grid goes down and stays down long term for a year or two and there are no deliveries of fuel to nuclear power plants we will all die anyway.

Like just about everyone.

So I would not worry about it.


Just curious... what do you mean by that?


SCRAMing a reactor does not stop decay. The rods still need to be cooled. Without electrically driven pumps to provide coolant the rods will melt causing various non-nuclear explosions and spreading radioactivity. Over a long enough time line (several years) the radioactivity will cover the entire planet killing everyone and everything.

See Fukushima Daiichi for a small example.

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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:58 pm 
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Stercutus wrote:
Look at it this way:

If the grid goes down and stays down long term for a year or two and there are no deliveries of fuel to nuclear power plants we will all die anyway.

Like just about everyone.


:lol: No, sweety, I don't think I will do that. :lol: But I take your point about worry. And I will keep alternately moving steadily to improve self reliance for periods after, sometimes during, Events that occur around me.... sliding into distraction by shiny things and slacking off completely.... getting jolted back on-track with information or new Events somewhere in the world.... then distraction.... then back on track. The cycle that is a part of me.


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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:17 pm 
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ZP - a quote from a wise woman on prepping:

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Preps buy us time. Time to learn how and time to remember how. Time to figure out what is a want, what is a need.


Stercutus - never thought of it that way (scraming). Thanks a lot... Jerk... :ooh:
:awesome:

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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:06 pm 
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Stercutus wrote:
Langadune wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
Look at it this way:

If the grid goes down and stays down long term for a year or two and there are no deliveries of fuel to nuclear power plants we will all die anyway.

Like just about everyone.

So I would not worry about it.


Just curious... what do you mean by that?


SCRAMing a reactor does not stop decay. The rods still need to be cooled. Without electrically driven pumps to provide coolant the rods will melt causing various non-nuclear explosions and spreading radioactivity. Over a long enough time line (several years) the radioactivity will cover the entire planet killing everyone and everything.

See Fukushima Daiichi for a small example.


I work at a nuclear power plant so I know how it all works... Honestly, I thought you were suggesting the plant would need fuel (uranium) to keep up. I see by fuel you meant diesel for the emergency generators.


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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:40 pm 
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Quote:
I work at a nuclear power plant so I know how it all works... Honestly, I thought you were suggesting the plant would need fuel (uranium) to keep up. I see by fuel you meant diesel for the emergency generators.


Went back and fixed that.

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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:55 pm 
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Reading this book now. . I didn't see anybody refute what sterctus said. I would think nuclear power plants would have diesel reserve tanks to last long enough til a supply was established.

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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:06 pm 
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They do.

Until they don't. Worst case means they won't be able to. It would take quite an event to knock out the plant off line and keep the generators from running but it has happened before. The event would have to be huge in size, scope and scale.

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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:24 pm 
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I was all excited to talk about lights out, by DAVID CRAWFORD, until i realized you were talking about a different book.

...like no two books in the history of books have ever had the same name :awesome:

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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:36 pm 
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I don't know squat about the preparations and protocol of nuclear plants. But I do know labs that do work with the nastier of pathogens usually have a generator of sufficient size to power the critical biosafety features of the lab and it is usually shielded by a faraday cage. One would think the computers controlling critical facilities would be separate from those connected to the internet to prevent a cyber take over. In the two scenarios I so far read about in the book , one would be a EMP attack. from freighters anchored off shore firing intermediate range nuclear tipped missiles. The other scenario is a cyber attack/ physical attack on key substations around the country.In situation one I would hope at least the military would have vehicles capable of delivering fuel to critical installations sufficiently hardened to withstand the EMP attack. And in the other situation , vehicles would not be affected.

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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:05 pm 
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I fear an EMP far less than a loss of power event caused aging infrastructure due no new power lines/distribution points being built owing to the howling of (chose one) - dirty hippies/greenies/ NIMBYs/greed sucking utility management/other.

Wide area black outs have happened. Two years to come back? Don't think so. That just IMO.
Some areas waiting long times for power restoration - yes.
Rolling black outs/brown out - yes.
New hookups to the grid denied - yes.
Prices skyrocketing (rationing via price gouging) - yes
Overt rationing - yes


It could be worse,...
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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:58 am 
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TacAir wrote:
I fear an EMP far less than a loss of power event caused aging infrastructure due no new power lines/distribution points being built owing to the howling of (chose one) - dirty hippies/greenies/ NIMBYs/greed sucking utility management/other.

Wide area black outs have happened. Two years to come back? Don't think so. That just IMO.
Some areas waiting long times for power restoration - yes.
Rolling black outs/brown out - yes.
New hookups to the grid denied - yes.
Prices skyrocketing (rationing via price gouging) - yes
Overt rationing - yes


It could be worse,...
Image

I'm the opposite. The loss of power grid due to the causes you listed are negated by the final cause listed. "greed sucking utility management/other" might put off infrastructure repair/replacement to save cost and increase profit but not at the expense of stopping the inflow of cash from the customers. The cost after all won't actually come out of their pocket but ours via increased rates.
On the other hand we do have entities that are hostile to our very way of life and would watch with great satisfaction the destruction of us and all we represent ,ESPECIALLY by our own hand due to a Societal breakdown due to the loss of the power grid and resulting chaos,famine,crime because of the near total inability of most of the population having no clue how to survive without modern convenience. As an example, I've been asked numerous times why do I wear a watch when I have a phone. This reliance on power hungry / short term capacity devices for the most basic of needs would greatly enhance the effectiveness of a successful power grid attack .

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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:57 pm 
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I'm pretty shocked that a thread like this has to be necro'd! Have really so few people around here read/audiobooked Lights Out or is it just stating the obvious and most around here just nod without much to discuss?

I listened​ to the audiobook on a road trip a few months ago and just recently went back to listen to the portion on Mormons and community preparation. To be honest I thought the section was a little weak compared to how he was building up to it, but I still found it interesting and conceptually relevant.

Do any of you have and thoughts or experience with large (and I mean large) community organizing? I wonder if it is even efficient to look to the Feds or the states to have emergency stockpiles... I think about US military infrastructure and everything it takes to ensure that our 1.5 million active personnel are supplied for disasters... Would we even have a chance at accomplishing a feat for every man woman and child or would giving much smaller segments (something like census block size) and letting them organize as they saw fit be a more reasonable goal...?

Obviously this is very much theoretical, I'm just curious what others thoughts might be

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 Post subject: Re: Lights Out
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:03 pm 
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IMO much of the EMP threat is a huge unknown subject to a lot of variations. IMO an EMP attack would be useful only as prelude to other attacks. A hostile nation could not count on an EMP attack to be decisive but it could count on it to sow confusion and slow a counter attack.

Thus IMO an EMP attack is only useful as an initial attack to prevent communication . So in short EMP followed by selective nuke strikes. In which case the EMP attacks would be the least of your prep concerns.

One other thing. The US grids are really not that interconnected on a national scale. They are divided into several regions. I would more that Texas had its own region.

I mention this because IMO (Not fact, opinion) a more likely scenario is that 1,2 or even 3 regions could be affected but the other regions would likely be operable.

BTW the other thing to consider is if the power is out so is the internet in that area. IMO access to the internet is actually now more important than power. So much now depends upon this backbone.

I have not read Koppel's book but I did read Crawford.

That said anything that makes people prepare is IMO a very good thing.

One final thought. Natural gas. It is very plentiful on many areas of the US. It is extracted using its natural pressure and the on compressed for transmission. If you go to the oil patch you will see a lot of very large natural gas powered equipment. That is because. They use NG from the field since it is in effect free.

This NG is what powers most of the oil rigs in the GOM. It is piped ashore. My point is this NG in this situation would likely be easily maintained. This NG could easily run generators.

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