Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - Data posted

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Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - Data posted

Post by Gingerbread Man » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:07 am

I want to test the validity of the AR-15 pistol. I need some volunteers to do this testing. The protocol will be to test the 10" AR-15 pistol against a handgun, 10" AR-15 SBR and a 16" AR-15. I have all the necessary firearms to complete this testing. I need a good sample group of 5-6 folks. There are a few caveats, you need to bring your own ammo however I will provide some snacks and drinks. The testing will take place in Columbia, SC and I need to borrow someone's shot clock. Each protocol will be timed and scored against man sized targets. The protocol will be shot with each weapon and from a low ready and the handgun is from the low ready.
Protocol is as follows.
One target, 2rds @ 5, 15, 25m
Three targets, 2 shots each @ 5, 15, 25m
Last edited by Gingerbread Man on Tue May 08, 2012 9:31 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by MaconCJ7 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:58 am

And here is the question. What is the objective of the test? Over all effectiveness of an AR pistol for SD purposes? Comparative evaluation of handgun vs rifle? It will definitely be unique in the variety of platforms. The flaw I see for definitive results of any value is user training on the platforms. If a guy uses his carbine as a primary weapon 95% of the time, he's going to rock with the carbine and SBR, and might not be so cool with the pistols. Same can be said with pistol vs AR pistol. I've never shot an AR pistol, but I can pretend in my mind that I understand how different it is in relation to a standard pistol.

I'm definitely interested in the results, and I would love to participate. I can't participate, but it will make for a fun afternoon for those that do. Good luck and I look forward to reading your findings.
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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by Gingerbread Man » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:08 am

MaconCJ7 wrote:And here is the question. What is the objective of the test? Over all effectiveness of an AR pistol for SD purposes? Comparative evaluation of handgun vs rifle? It will definitely be unique in the variety of platforms. The flaw I see for definitive results of any value is user training on the platforms. If a guy uses his carbine as a primary weapon 95% of the time, he's going to rock with the carbine and SBR, and might not be so cool with the pistols. Same can be said with pistol vs AR pistol. I've never shot an AR pistol, but I can pretend in my mind that I understand how different it is in relation to a standard pistol.

I'm definitely interested in the results, and I would love to participate. I can't participate, but it will make for a fun afternoon for those that do. Good luck and I look forward to reading your findings.
Well, I see a lot of folks saying they believe the AR-15 pistols is just the tits. I disagree but I'm trying to remain unbiased for this test. Yeah, the best way to test this is to have someone who has never shot before run the tests but that's not going to happen. This test isn't flawless, but I think is will alude to certain guns being much better for self defense than others.
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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by MaconCJ7 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:06 am

Regular Guy wrote:Well, I see a lot of folks saying they believe the AR-15 pistols is just the tits. I disagree but I'm trying to remain unbiased for this test. Yeah, the best way to test this is to have someone who has never shot before run the tests but that's not going to happen. This test isn't flawless, but I think is will alude to certain guns being much better for self defense than others.
Hmmm, I think the test itself is already biased towards the carbine. I mean, the carbine is the best choice, but it's hard to walk around downtown with an AR strapped to your back and not draw any attention. There are certain situations where a 50m shot can easily fall into the realm of legitimate self defense, but I think keeping it within a 15m area would be best for an unbiased look at what you're going for.

Seeing how well the AR pistol performs at 50m in different hands would awesome.
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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by Gingerbread Man » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:34 am

MaconCJ7 wrote:
Regular Guy wrote:Well, I see a lot of folks saying they believe the AR-15 pistols is just the tits. I disagree but I'm trying to remain unbiased for this test. Yeah, the best way to test this is to have someone who has never shot before run the tests but that's not going to happen. This test isn't flawless, but I think is will alude to certain guns being much better for self defense than others.
Hmmm, I think the test itself is already biased towards the carbine. I mean, the carbine is the best choice, but it's hard to walk around downtown with an AR strapped to your back and not draw any attention. There are certain situations where a 50m shot can easily fall into the realm of legitimate self defense, but I think keeping it within a 15m area would be best for an unbiased look at what you're going for.

Seeing how well the AR pistol performs at 50m in different hands would awesome.
Really, I'm just looking for raw data, let the chips fall where they may. I'm not a advocate of the AR-15 pistol other than a host until you get a tax stamp. Just something to do for an afternoon.
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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by 400 Grains » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:07 am

Make sure and do some draws from concealment holsters, along with strong hand/weak hand shooting.



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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by PistolPete » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:01 am

I had this same idea myself- let a bunch of people run the same stage with different weapons and then posts times and scores. Do that enough and it's almost like science!

I'm very curious to see how this turns out.
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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by Kutter_0311 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:21 am

Having shot NXP's AR pistol, I have some observations...

An AR pistol is really just a tiny carbine in that the buffer tube can be used as a stock. If you have a rail forend, mount your optic as far forward as you can without getting it covered in burning powder. No, you wont get any cheek weld, but a holo sight doesn't really need it. BUIS are pretty much a no-go, too. Vert grips aren't legal, but the front of the mag well works good enough.

IMO, AR pistol beats AK pistol simply because the buffer tube = ministock, so it's a CQB monster.

It may be the best civ weapon to use to clear your house or fight from your car. Or maybe not.
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Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunteers

Post by jeepinbandtrider » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:26 am

They're VERY loud and have pretty big muzzle flashes. Stick a good flash hider on it and it's great but for the noise the only option is a suppressor.

I've fired them and while they are maneuverable I'd hate to discharge one indoors without some serious hearing protection lol.


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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by Kutter_0311 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:33 am

jeepinbandtrider wrote:I'd hate to discharge one indoors without some serious hearing protection
Oh, gawd, yes. Perhaps the only detractor to it's use in house clearing and car shooting.

Please roll all windows down before you open fire...
JAYNE COBB wrote: Well, what you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar.
TravisM.1 wrote:If a rifle is an option, a rifle is usually the answer.
minengr wrote:I've said it numerous times, a quality rig is only as good as it's weakest link. Which usually is the nut behind the butt.

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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by omega_man » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:37 pm

Gimme a date RG and I'm down (psst, we still have to discuss a Spring MBO anyway).

I've never shot an AR pistol, so I'm very interested in how it compares to the previously mentioned hardware. I think there is some validity to AR pistols, but mostly from a concealed/grey man POV if utmost firepower might be required and the ease of purchase.

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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by Gingerbread Man » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:41 pm

omega_man wrote:Gimme a date RG and I'm down (psst, we still have to discuss a Spring MBO anyway).

I've never shot an AR pistol, so I'm very interested in how it compares to the previously mentioned hardware. I think there is some validity to AR pistols, but mostly from a concealed/grey man POV if utmost firepower might be required and the ease of purchase.

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How's the 5th of May grab ya'all? Cinco de Mayo, muthafuckas.
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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by omega_man » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:00 pm

My last exam is that morning (which I can probably take early if need be). Regardless, I can be in Columbia that afternoon.
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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by Gingerbread Man » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:04 pm

omega_man wrote:My last exam is that morning (which I can probably take early if need be). Regardless, I can be in Columbia that afternoon.
Hells yeah, should take about a hour or so. I have 2 strongs and a maybe plus me. I think I want one or two more then that's it. 6 folks is more than enough for the booth at Carolina Wings afterwards. :D
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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by wguy00 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:13 pm

I'd be interested if I wasn't all the way out in Southern California. Tell Bane that David, the In-N-Out guy with the crochety old FFL in Southern California says Hi.

Anyway, on the the real reason I post. FOR SCIENCE!!

When you run these tests, make sure you either change up the order the guns are used, or what order people will be running your shots. What I mean is:
If you hand all five people "Gun A" and make them all run "Course A", I'd imagine that when you hand them "Gun B" and tell them to run "Course A", you're going to almost always get a faster time the second time the course is run, regardless of the gun. This is my thinking anyway. So maybe the first group gets "Gun A" on "course A", for their first run, and the second group gets "Gun B" on "course A" for their first run.

Does that make sense? :?
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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by omega_man » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:14 pm

Oh wait, cinco de mayo is a Saturday, right? I'm in! (you know, Doc66 and omega-woman were just making fun of my chronic chronological deficiency syndrome :lol: )
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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by Redeyes » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:54 pm

I will be there if I can get off work. They have put out a schedule all the way to the first week of May. A couple people were asking me if I was going to take time off so they could get more hours. I will see if they want to work that day. What type of .556 do you want us to bring, and what type of ammo for the pistol?
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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by Gingerbread Man » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:15 pm

Redeyes wrote:I will be there if I can get off work. They have put out a schedule all the way to the first week of May. A couple people were asking me if I was going to take time off so they could get more hours. I will see if they want to work that day. What type of .556 do you want us to bring, and what type of ammo for the pistol?
Any 5.56 will do. I think a valid pistol for this test will be the glock 19 so 9mm. It would be awesome if you could make it. :D
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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by northernxposure » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:25 pm

Too bad it's not closer, I'd loan out my AR pistol to someone willing to beat up their clavical.

I still need to put a forward hand stop on it, but with the Specter length grip and Spikes tube it's not too bad in terms of manageable size, but it's definately not an SBR. I honestly think if it had a sling that was worth a shit, it might be a little faster - but it is what it is, a stop gap to get around a silly DNR law. It also happens to be crazy fun and loud as hell. :lol:

It also fits nicely under your arm, and with the buffer tube against the front of my shoulder on a short bungee sling attached to the ASP, the barrel doesn't clear my waist and the 30rd mag just barely pokes out behind me.

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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by TDW586 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:44 pm

I have zero idea what my schedule will be like, I've got a lot of irons in the fire right now. I wish I could say for sure that I'll make it, but all I can say is I'd love to be there if I can.
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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by Gingerbread Man » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:52 am

Omega and I maybe getting some ballistic gel. Anyone else want in? 2 blocks of 6x6x16" will cost $75.
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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by TerryGecko » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:09 pm

May 5th?

I seriously might be down for it. Is it going to be the same place we did the 5.7 tests? I'll have to see if I can get that day off.
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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by Gingerbread Man » Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:43 pm

TerryGecko wrote:May 5th?

I seriously might be down for it. Is it going to be the same place we did the 5.7 tests? I'll have to see if I can get that day off.
Sadly it will not be at the same place. It will be at midcarolina rifle club. We'll start shooting around 1 til we feel we need beer and BBQ.
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Re: Testing the Validity of the AR-15 Pistol - I need volunt

Post by ausher » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:21 pm

If you got an iphone or an Android smart phone you can get a shot timer app...

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