Murg,Murgatroy wrote:I agree, I think we are getting off the topic here and I am sorry. I am not trying to be confrontational.TDW586 wrote:*Sigh*...and now you're discussing an entirely different topic. I'm not getting into shotgun versus rifle with you. Not gonna happen. I've saved you from doing the easiest of research on penetration, learning has occurred, I'm done here.
I don't understand why you dismiss expanding ammunition, other than because it makes it easier to convince yourself that what you have is best.
You did give me the information I asked for, thank you.
While I respect that, it has not proven to me that 5.56 is somehow superior. It shows me that all variables even (if they can be) they both perform to the same standard. Unless I am missing something.
I am not dismissing expanding ammunition, I am just stating that by using expanding ammunition you are changing the rules of the game, just as you could use reduced recoil loads, or even a bean bag load. That is the only point I am trying to make with that.
I am sorry to have gone off at a tangent to the origin of the thread. Maybe it is because I have that old school mentality that you must use a shotgun for home defense, thank you for offering a differing point of view.
I have an AR, I have a shotgun, I have a pistol. This is not about trying to justify my SxS shotgun as the be all end all of HD because that is what I have. For the love of god, I just crippled myself out the gate because I only have two shots before I must take cover and reload.
All I was stating is that I did not believe the 5.56 was a better choice based on the fact of penetration. You showed me that my statement was incorrect. I now accept that all things equal, they both over penetrate, though the 5.56 offers one projectile versus nine.
The second part of my argument was not directed at the penetration, and I am sorry that it wasn't more obvious that I was breaking into a second debate there.
The point of that was again, maybe my misguided old school mentality, that nine pellets of buckshot is superior to one 5.56 round, again, all things equal.
OP here. Maybe I can address some of your concerns. No one said ARs are better than shotguns. However by selling my shotgun and building a new AR, I certainly implied it.
Why did I imply that a plastic poodle-shootin' pop-gun was superior to a finely crafted, stone cold reliable & dead sexy Italian killing machine? Well, for me, it is. Here's why:
1. the above referenced articles on over penetration. Keep in mind, I was using tactical buckshot in a twelve guage.
2. Already owning an AR-15 and an AR-10, I am extremely familiar with the platform.
3. While I shoot my ARs regularly (At least three times a month, rain, snow or shine), my range forbids shotguns unless firing slugs. Hard to ptactice if you can't.
So there you go. Ain't she pretty?