Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by Absintheur » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:43 am

I owned one of the original scout rifles, the Remington 600. Mine was in .308 and was not the most pleasant rifle to shoot. This rifle sported a 18 1/2 inch pencil barrel and weighed in at 7 pounds. It was made in a variety of calibers, .222 Remington, .223 Remington, 6mm Remington, 6.5mm Remington, .308 Win, .35 Remington, and .350 Remington Magnum. The .350 RM had the reputation of killing on one end and maiming on the other.

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Despite kicking like a mule it was a very handy gun for spending long periods of time in the woods with, thanks largely to it's light weight. A Scout is one who is expected to travel long, travel far, travel fast and travel light. Their job was not to engage but to get in, gather information, and get out without being detected. This new Ruger is an interesting rifle, one that I would love to have but I don't know what I would do with it today in Indiana. I do agree with the comment a 260 Rem would be a nice caliber to have this in.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by gelgoog » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:17 pm

Kutter_0311 wrote:My major gripe here is that it doesn't use G3 mags.

I've got 20 of them, and I think this would go well paired with a G3/PTR-91.
can't use G3 mags without a major reworking of the magwell. Even then it probably wouldn't work due to the way the feel lips are configured, which is exactly why they could not get the gun to work with M14 mags.

The probably chose the AI mags because they are planning on releasing it in other calibers and AI already makes that same magazine for .300WSM, .300WM and .338. This way the do not have to change the design much and can stick with one mag system.

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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by Cpt. MelonBuster » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:50 pm

no_wee_zee wrote: Somebody needs to work some voodoo and get the M1A under eight pounds.
I don't think that's possible without jeopardizing the strength/reliability of the firearm. That said, I'm still totally getting a loaded M1a when the funds are there. I kind of like this ruger, but it won't do anything that an M1a won't do except save a couple pounds.

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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by gelgoog » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:11 pm

Cpt. MelonBuster wrote:
no_wee_zee wrote: Somebody needs to work some voodoo and get the M1A under eight pounds.
I kind of like this ruger, but it won't do anything that an M1a won't do except save a couple pounds.
well except for being more accurate, easier to clean and disassemble, and a lot more reliable :roll:

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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by MVegas » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:21 pm

gelgoog wrote:
Cpt. MelonBuster wrote:
no_wee_zee wrote: Somebody needs to work some voodoo and get the M1A under eight pounds.
I kind of like this ruger, but it won't do anything that an M1a won't do except save a couple pounds.
well except for being more accurate, easier to clean and disassemble, and a lot more reliable :roll:
For a bunch less scratch.......

ETA- Also, while not an issue addressed originally by Col. Cooper but I think something that recommends the rifle in the spirit of the scout concept is that being manually operated, this rifle, despite some evil features like a flash hider and DBM would be 50 state and (perhaps one of our friends from our snowy neighbor to the north could weigh in here) 10 province legal. As someone who lives in a state bordering more restrictive jurisdictions than my own this is always a concern for me.
If one is to have one rifle, shouldn't maximum legal freedom of movement be a concern?
Just throwing that out there for the "if it's not an auto loader it's crap" crowd. :wink:
Last edited by MVegas on Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by Cpt. MelonBuster » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:41 pm

MVegas893.1 wrote: For a bunch less scratch.......
That one is definitely true.

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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by praharin » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:39 pm

First of all, NO CHING SLING = FAIL!

phil_in_cs wrote:It is ironic the rifle was designed to be The One Rifle people would need, and the only people who are going to buy it are collectors who have a dozen or more rifles.
Ironically... I own one centerfire rifle at the moment. It is a slightly upgraded Ruger Frontier. It has decent iron sights, in what I consider to be a very low profile. The rear aperture is on the receiver (NECG M77 sight) and an AR front post fitted to a screw hole in the "quarter-rib". It's a shorter sight radius, but I don't have to worry about a barrel mounted front sight getting caught on something or damaged, as this one is protected by the scope.



I really like this design, and will most likely get one and then designate the Frontier to a backup, or sell it to appease SWMBO on the financial side. If I can get it with 3 (total) ten round mags and 1 five round mag for around the MSRP of $1000 total, I'll be happy. That will mean that it needs to have a street value of about $800, which I think is reasonable. If the bottom metal becomes available aftermarket, I would just skip it and keep the Frontier though. It would probably cost a little more (accounting for the cost of the Frontier) but would save me some leg work... if it's a drop in unit, which is doubtful.

Does anyone know for sure which AI mags it takes? They appear to be the "AE" style, but there are at least 3 different ones that I know of in .308 length and the "AICS" type would make more sense. I am really happy they did this though, and I hope other manufacturers follow along. It would be nice to see this become an industry standard and get more manufacturers in the game, then see prices fall to under $50 per mag

Overall, to me, it looks like someone took the Frontier and said "what are people saying about it?" Then fixed as many of the listed issues as they could, for better or worse.

I will also say that I shot my Frontier before Antlered season here at dusk and there was a significant fireball, so the flash suppressor isn't a bad idea. I would replace it with a Vortex or something else though.


I would probably replace the stock too, because I bet the Gunsite marked one would go for a bunch on eBay ;)


no_wee_zee wrote:They should have made this new bolt gun a straight pull design or do a redesign of the 'mini' so that it actually sucks less. Being forced to work the bolt while being shot at doesn't sound like my idea of a good time. I don't see this as being a very good defensive weapon. Somebody needs to work some voodoo and get the M1A under eight pounds.
How often are you shot at? How often do you figure the customer base that this is being marketed towards gets shot at?

No one needs to change a damn thing about the M1A. It's been fine the way it has been for decades. I would even go as far as saying that getting an M1A just to drop it in one of the chassis systems out there is a waste of money. They were developed to upgrade the M14s the government already had into something more useful.

The AR10 (and it's kin) are what you should be looking at if you want to go light weight in a 308 auto-loading rifle. The only thing the M14/M1A has ahead of this setup is being combat proven for many more years beyond the AR10 style.

MVegas893.1 wrote:
gelgoog wrote:
Cpt. MelonBuster wrote:
no_wee_zee wrote: Somebody needs to work some voodoo and get the M1A under eight pounds.
I kind of like this ruger, but it won't do anything that an M1a won't do except save a couple pounds.
well except for being more accurate, easier to clean and disassemble, and a lot more reliable :roll:
For a bunch less scratch.......
Yeah, nothing at all... lol Also, I believe the Col said an automatic would be preferable IF it could make weight.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by bufordtjustice » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:11 pm

So I bought into the whole "scout rifle" thing a few years back. Now, my safe holds a beautiful (to me at least) Jeff Cooper edition Steyr in .308. I also bought the spare parts kit, ching sling and a couple of extra magazines so I would be prepared for the zombie apocalypse. After carrying one around for a few years, hunting deer with it, working on my farm with it on the four wheeler, etc., here are my thoughts on the steyr model and the concept in general.

1. The factory rings on the steyr were absolute crap. I literally threw them away and bought a set of talley rings. The ghost rings on the steyr are crap as well. Yes they are better than no BUIS but not by much.
2. I wouldn't want any "scout" rifle to be my trunk gun. Why, because it is probably going to stay in my trunk in a bag. A semi-auto can do that too. If I feel the need to pull the rifle out (where I live, work or mostly travel) It is going to be a HUGE deal so I am guessing I will need a little more firepower to resolve whatever crisis just popped up on the freeways of Northern Virginia.
3. Jeff Cooper was a lot like my Dad. He was a good man who served his country, knew lots about shooting, fighting and hunting and earned the right to be listened to (not blindly followed, just listened to). He also often said some pretty stupid shit because he was opinionated. I swear, sometimes he just wanted to argue for the hell of it (yep, just like my Dad). I read several of his books and articles and know that to be the case. Nobody is right all the time.
4. Jeff Cooper gave the Steyr version a score of somewhere around 88 out of 100. He supposedly got no money out of the deal but I am sure he got a free rifle for his efforts. He had some specific and some general guide lines which were just that...guide lines. It's not like anyone will call the scout rifle police if you deviate from his master plan.
5. For what I do on my farm or during deer season, a scout rifle is FANTASTIC. They are light which is a huge deal, they are more than accurate enough for MOST range you will find yourself engaging targets or game, they often have forward mounted optics which speed up target acquisition time, they don't have a bunch of shit hanging off of them to catch on brush or whatever, and they are usually chambered in one of the most useful calibers ever.
6. Sometimes you look like a douche carrying a battle rifle with a bunch of tacticool shit around your place. A good scout is a very versatile utility rifle.
7. Most people already have a rifle that will do a lot of what the mythical scout rifle was supposed to do rather nicely. It is a good ol' fashioned lever action rifle. I don't think many people would doubt the overall utility of them.
8. I like the looks of the new rifle but won't jump on another one just yet. I have been eyeing the savage for awhile and want to see how this one works out first.
9. If you haven't gotten the opportunity to handle and fire a good scout variant, I strongly urge you to do so. After killing shit quickly and efficiently with my steyr and my marlin guide gun with scout scope, I know I will always have one somewhere in my safe.
10. Whenever I go hunt or to work on the farm, no matter what group of rifles or handguns I take, it is a scout type that gets used the most. Why, you may ask? Because it does exactly what it is supposed to do: which is to say it does a lot of things "good enough".

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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by agent-smith » Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:07 pm

As a lifelong devotee of The Colonel, I've always felt a bit of inner turmoil regarding the Scout concept. To me, the Scout rifles make fantastic hunting rifles, and I feel that most people really would be better off with a forward-mounted "Scout Scope" when it comes to a hunting rifle. Also, where these rifles really excel is when it comes to field shooting.

I don't really consider this a true Scout Rifle (no real reason, but the fact that it is affiliated with Gunsite rather than Col. Cooper has something to do with it) but it would make a great hunting rifle. I owned a Steyr Scout (which I fortunately sold back when there was still somewhat of a demand for them so I didn't lose too much money) and even though it was a fantastic rifle, it really didn't blow my skirt up because the whole deal with a "Scout Rifle" is that you are only supposed to need the one rifle.

Well, as a previous poster stated Leatherman tools are very handy because I can carry it around with me but no sane person is going to try to rebuild an engine with a Leatherman Tool because mechanics already have specialized tools. Similar thing with the Scout rifle - I already have dedicated rifles that are MUCH better suited to more "specialized" tasks and the Scout Rifle really just wasn't much good at anything. It might make a slightly better deer rifle but not enough to make a huge difference and it gives up WAY too much when it comes to comparing to an AR-15/.308 bolt gun/.22-250 Varmint rifle/insert-other-rifle-here for home defense/long-range shooting/varminting/etc.

If the price of this rifle is comparable to that of a "normal" hunting rifle this might make a great deer-rifle. But, I think it is an incremental improvement at best as opposed to anything truly revolutionary (which is the same way that I feel about the whole Scout Rifle concept in general). Man, I've really tried to drink the Scout Kool-Aid but I just can't do it no matter how hard I try to talk myself into it.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by PistolPete » Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:50 pm

I see a lot of people are concerned about the recoil and muzzle blast, and I don't think it'll be a problem. As mentioned I've got a 7mm-08 with a 16" barrel and no flash suppressor. It's pretty pleasant to shoot. More pleasant than a full size .300wm for sure. I could put a bunch of rounds through it in a day an still be happy.

The last time I shot it was at a deer at dusk. It was so dark I wouldn't have been able to take a shot if I wasn't using an Aimpoint, there's no way I could have used irons or a standard scope and made a good shot. I didn't notice a fireball or suffer any loss of night vision after the shot. I've shot Mosin carbines, those through a fireball. My rifle does not.
Now, these were my handloads and that may have something to do with it. I use powder on the faster end for the cartridge to get the most out of the short barrel. Perhaps if it was store bought ammo it would be different.

I love my short rifle in the woods. I have a few different guns to choose from when I go deer hunting, and my Frontier rifle is my first choice. It's not a target rifle, I'm not going to win any matches with it, but for a gun that is going to be carried a lot and shot once it's perfect.

Having irons and a mag on a rifle like that can only be a plus. If you're a guy that goes hunting once a year and would like a rifle that's also appropriate for defending one's family, this wouldn't be a bad choice. Perhaps there are better choices for more money, like an M1a socom or an Armalite AR-10 carbine, but this could be a nice conventional rifle that could play more than one role nicely.

If I wasn't so emotionally attached to my Frontier rifle I would consider selling it and upgrading to a gun with a detachable mag and irons. But I love my woods gun and am very unlikely to ever sell it. :-)
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by Festus Hagen » Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:19 pm

Paladin1 wrote: This is, of course, very location dependent, but capable of killing a 1,000lb animal? Very few North American animals get to 1,000lbs. While a .308 is capable with great shot placement, If I was going after moose or grizzly bear I want something a little stouter than a .308. But that's just me.
No it's not. Not that I expect to ever hunt big bears but if I did, I'd be borrowing my old man's .338 Win Mag. Ditto for elk or moose, hell even for black bear just because I could. OTOH I think the .338 would be pretty harsh as an "all-around, I only own one rifle" kind of rifle. Years ago I killed quite a few woodchucks with a .308, I wouldn't really have thought of doing that with the .338 :lol:

That said I do need a full-power rifle (i.e. more powerful than x39) one of these days and this one IS interesting to me. If I were in Alaska with it I wouldn't exactly feel unarmed, also I grew up primarily using bolt and pump action firearms so those are the platforms I'm most comfortable with. I can think of circumstances I'd grab it over my Saiga. This rifle is not for everyone but I'd hit it :lol:
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by Cpt. MelonBuster » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:14 pm

Kind of want.

Don't have the funds. :(

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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by Greg Focker » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:58 pm

This Ruger leaves me feeling "meh", but I can't wait to get my R1 mounted onto my Savage Scout.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by praharin » Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:22 pm

Greg Focker wrote:This Ruger leaves me feeling "meh", but I can't wait to get my R1 mounted onto my Savage Scout.
I can understand why when you already have a good scout rifle. The Savage is by all accounts a good rifle, but it has some things that I would like to see that Ruger did nicely gere, IMO.

Just for fun, lets count what the Ruger has that the Savage doesn't. All of these things are pluses to me, maybe not to anyone else.

1: Better magazine. It's more expensive, sure, but worth it in the long run (IMO). It's non-proprietary, it's an AI mag. The Savage is just a Savage mag.

2: Controlled Round Feed. CRF isn't always necessary, but many African hunters rely on it because it is marginally better overall. When you are dangling upside down trying to work the bold slowly as to not rapidly shift your center of gravity and falling to your doom; to take that 500 yard shot at a zed about to eat your dog, you'll thank me.

3: No insulting Accutrigger. My Ruger M77 trigger works just fine for a hunting rifle. I hear lot of great stuff about this thing, but I could live without mine. I won that rifle though (17HMR) so I'll keep it. I see no point in adding parts to something that was already working well enough.

4: Ruger's laminate wood > Savage's synthetic. Weight savings are fine, but Savage stocks don't really do it for me. Maybe the Accustock is better, but I don't see it making that much difference.

5: Flash suppressor/threaded barrel.

The only negative I personally count on the Ruger is the barrel length. I would have liked to see 18-19 inches to curb some blast and wring out a little more velocity. That said, 16" 308s have made it to 1000 yards successfully. Also, making the barrel slightly heavier, and fluted wouldn't have added much, if any weight and made the little barrel cool faster, and be more rigid for better consistency for longer strings of fire, otherwise, what's the 10 round detachable magazine for? If I end up with one, that would be the first change I would make. 18" medium contour fluted barrel threaded with an M14 flash hider and bayonet lug :D Just because... :P


Since I am now thinking about it, check out the Shawn's Tactical "Trunk Gun" if you can find one. His website seems to be down :? It was built on a Stevens 200 action, and had a striper clip guide. Unfortunately, Savage changed the magazine to 4 round (from 5) and he had to start custom making 4 round clips. Before that happened, it was going to be my next rifle. He told me when I contacted him about it that he had some technical difficulties, then the announcement went up on the site. Apparently he was trying to rectify the magazine issue. I guess he couldn't get it just right. Rather than shipping unreliable (he told me he was at 90% reliability) rifles, he started custom making clips, and raised his price about $200. No thanks. I got the Ruger (which will not feed from clips, because it too has a 4 round mag and not enough length in the receiver :( ) and I couldn't be happier, unless it could take clips or mags to make for faster reloads.




In case everyone can't tell by the length of my posts in here, I am fairly excited about this rifle.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by FriedCheese » Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:28 pm

Looks reAlly cool!

Way wrong price point.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by praharin » Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:34 pm

FriedCheese wrote:Looks reAlly cool!

Way wrong price point.
based on?
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by Kutter_0311 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:22 am

praharin wrote:18" medium contour fluted barrel threaded with an M14 flash hider and bayonet lug :D Just because... :P
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by agent-smith » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:02 am

praharin wrote:
FriedCheese wrote:Looks reAlly cool!

Way wrong price point.
based on?
The price.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by Jeriah » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:15 am

Isn't the forward-mounted pistol or intermediate eye relief scope on a rifle of this type sort of an antiquated carry over from the 1970s, before optics like a .308-calibrated ACOG, or an AccuPoint, were available?
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by Kutter_0311 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:26 am

Jeriah wrote:Isn't the forward-mounted pistol or intermediate eye relief scope on a rifle of this type sort of an antiquated carry over from the 1970s, before optics like a .308-calibrated ACOG, or an AccuPoint, were available?
ACOG, FTW...

I'd take an ACOG over a scout scope any day!
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by crypto » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:08 am

praharin wrote: The only thing the M14/M1A has ahead of this setup is being combat proven for many more years beyond the AR10 style.

Except that the M14 was taken out of general combat deployment over 50 years ago, and replaced with the AR10 style rifle :D
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by Greg Focker » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:47 am

praharin wrote:I can understand why when you already have a good scout rifle. The Savage is by all accounts a good rifle, but it has some things that I would like to see that Ruger did nicely gere, IMO.

Just for fun, lets count what the Ruger has that the Savage doesn't. All of these things are pluses to me, maybe not to anyone else.

1: Better magazine. It's more expensive, sure, but worth it in the long run (IMO). It's non-proprietary, it's an AI mag. The Savage is just a Savage mag.

2: Controlled Round Feed. CRF isn't always necessary, but many African hunters rely on it because it is marginally better overall. When you are dangling upside down trying to work the bold slowly as to not rapidly shift your center of gravity and falling to your doom; to take that 500 yard shot at a zed about to eat your dog, you'll thank me.

3: No insulting Accutrigger. My Ruger M77 trigger works just fine for a hunting rifle. I hear lot of great stuff about this thing, but I could live without mine. I won that rifle though (17HMR) so I'll keep it. I see no point in adding parts to something that was already working well enough.

4: Ruger's laminate wood > Savage's synthetic. Weight savings are fine, but Savage stocks don't really do it for me. Maybe the Accustock is better, but I don't see it making that much difference.

5: Flash suppressor/threaded barrel.

The only negative I personally count on the Ruger is the barrel length. I would have liked to see 18-19 inches to curb some blast and wring out a little more velocity. That said, 16" 308s have made it to 1000 yards successfully. Also, making the barrel slightly heavier, and fluted wouldn't have added much, if any weight and made the little barrel cool faster, and be more rigid for better consistency for longer strings of fire, otherwise, what's the 10 round detachable magazine for? If I end up with one, that would be the first change I would make. 18" medium contour fluted barrel threaded with an M14 flash hider and bayonet lug :D Just because... :P

In case everyone can't tell by the length of my posts in here, I am fairly excited about this rifle.
I think we are looking at similar rifles to fulfill different needs. Mine is a hunting gun, so if I swing by one of my uncles down South when visiting, provided the season is correct I can take my rifle with me and shoot deer/boar. I bought a second magazine for my rifle, and might get another one, but honestly I've only used the second long enough to function check it, then put it back into storage. I've no desire to use a bolt .308 for sustained fire. In almost any event where I know ahead of time that I may be needing a rifle for sustained fire, I will pick my AR and take a lot of PMags with me. Yes, I have a spare magazine for the Savage, but I'm never going to practice speed reloads with my Savage bolt rifle for anything other than shits and giggles. Because I'd probably have to be really drunk for that to seem like a good idea, and because guns and alcohol don't mix, I highly doubt that it will ever happen.

So, for MY needs:
#1 (Mags): Savage mags are about 1/2 the price of AI mags. Not that it matters much, because I'm not really going to stock up on these. I think I've got more PMags than I have .308 ammo on hand (seriously, I think I'm down to about 200 rounds of .308). For what I want, edge to the Savage.
#2 (CRF): Small edge to the Ruger, but not on my must-have feature list by any stretch of the imagination.
#3 (trigger): I love my Accutrigger. Last month I dry fired two of my uncle's M77's (I know one of them was a .270, I forget what the other was). I like the Accutrigger more. Edge Savage.
#4 (stock): Having carried the Savage around the woods, I like the lightweight stock. Haven't fondled the Ruger Scout, obviously. Call it a push until I can finger-bang a Ruger Scout.
#5: (flash suppressor): Definite edge to the Ruger for this. Even with the 20" barrel on my Savage, it throws a nice ball of fire around dusk/dawn. Out of the Ruger's 16.5" barrel, I can see a flash suppressor being somewhat useful. Plus if you ever want to add a sound suppressor, your barrel is already threaded for it.
#6: (barrel length): Mine is 4" bigger than your's :lol: Edge, Savage, as I think 16.5" is a bit short for a .308.
#7: (cost): My Scout cost me something like $575 NIB and out the door. Edge to the Savage.
#8: (recall): ... come on, you have to be expecting this :P

Anyways, the great thing here is that we both get the choose what we want. Your needs, current and future, vary from mine. So will your choices. Whatever rifle you choose (and it sounds like it'll be the Ruger), practice with it and enjoy! Also, if/when you buy the Ruger Scout, bump this thread and throw up a range review if it wouldn't be too much trouble.
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They do not preach that their God will rouse them a little before the nuts work loose,
They do not teach that His Pity allows them to drop their job when they damn-well choose.
-The Sons of Martha; R. Kipling

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Cpt. MelonBuster
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by Cpt. MelonBuster » Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:03 am

crypto wrote:
praharin wrote: The only thing the M14/M1A has ahead of this setup is being combat proven for many more years beyond the AR10 style.

Except that the M14 was taken out of general combat deployment over 50 years ago, and replaced with the AR10 style rifle :D
Tell that to the Marines.

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I know, I know, they are technically M21's, but other then some national match parts, they are the same. I'd like to hear from someone with actual field experience with this rifle before calling it "combat proven", however.

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USMCSergeant
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by USMCSergeant » Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:29 am

Cpt. MelonBuster wrote:
crypto wrote:
praharin wrote: The only thing the M14/M1A has ahead of this setup is being combat proven for many more years beyond the AR10 style.

Except that the M14 was taken out of general combat deployment over 50 years ago, and replaced with the AR10 style rifle :D
Tell that to the Marines.

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I know, I know, they are technically M21's, but other then some national match parts, they are the same. I'd like to hear from someone with actual field experience with this rifle before calling it "combat proven", however.
I trained with this rifle in a designated marksman school, and we didn't refer to them as M21's, well not in the Marines anyway. It's basically an M14 with McMillan stock, bipods, leupold scope, and a match grade barrel. It is very accurate, and reliable. I can't remember how long this school was, I'm thinking 3 weeks, this was when the DM role just started to my knowledge. Either that or I wasn't aware of the program before this school. Lots of shooting at Hathcock range from long distances, anywhere from 200yds - 1000 yds. Including known distance shots and unknown distance shots/guesses :lol: The training was very intense IMO, we didn't just fire them as single shot weapons, as we were not trained to be snipers. We rapid/suppressive fired, shot while moving, we really tested and beat these rifles. There were a few malfunctions during the course, not on my rifle IIRC. Most malfunctions were deemed magazine related. Yes I did type 1000 yard shots earlier in this post, and those shots are prayers.. I didn't want anyone here assuming we were routinely hitting targets at that range.

While deployed 7 members of my platoon including myself were DM's, and we carried these rifles on deployment. We all carried our normal loadouts and we brought the DM rifles as extra gear. They are accurate, and reliable in the combat setting. I loved my M14. Heavy little bitch she is though :twisted:

ETA: another difference : Match grade ammo developed specifically for this rifle. BIG difference.
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