Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by J.C. » Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:39 pm

RottnJP wrote:
agent-smith wrote:
praharin wrote:As far as I know, no production rifle has ever fulfilled EVERY aspect of Coopers concept. Even the oft mentioned Steyr (as already stated in the above post) weighs in at the maximum (3.3kg) WITHOUT a scope, so that's probably another .5kg give or take.
You hear/read different things but my understanding is that the the Scout "ideal" weight was/is specified as 3kg, but the "maximum" weight was/is specified as 3.5kg. I actually had a Steyr Scout, then sold it after awhile since, given that I don't hunt, it didn't really do a whole lot for me. The Ruger actually looks kind of cool, but I don't think I'll be picking one up.
Personally, I've always thought that weight limit was arbitrarily limiting to satisfy Col. Cooper's inherent distrust of anything designed after 1911.
No. A big part of the Cooper's spin on the scout rifle concept was based on the fact of having modern polymer stocks and lighter steel alloys that could significantly reduce the weight of a rifle with the described capability. Cooper believed in the late seventies and early 80s that a new rifle concept was possible based upon this. In some ways he is right - average weight of sporter hunting rifles has dropped since that time. The idiosyncrasies of the concept were dropped along the way though.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by RottnJP » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:03 pm

J.C. wrote:
No. A big part of the Cooper's spin on the scout rifle concept was based on the fact of having modern polymer stocks and lighter steel alloys that could significantly reduce the weight of a rifle with the described capability. Cooper believed in the late seventies and early 80s that a new rifle concept was possible based upon this. ....
I don't disagree with this, but my question is, Are there objective criteria that were used to determine the 3.0 to 3.5 kg weight range?

You can certainly start with an ultralight rifle and modify it to be consistent with everything Cooper suggested. And, all other things being equal, a bolt gun will be lighter than a semi-auto. You'd really have to work at it to get a SA rifle to come in at 3.5 kg with glass...

My point is, if you lock yourself into a certain number as a requirement, that's going to drive certain choices. Are there missions that a 3.5 kg rifle can perform that a 4.0 kg rifle can not? I'm not sure there are. Far from being a "hard and fast" line, rifle weight and size is a series of trade-offs, like everything else. To me, a pound of extra weight might be a very reasonable price to pay for SA operation.

On the other hand, I suppose it's all semantics anyway. I might argue that a lightweight AR-15 in 6.5 GR or even 6.8 with a forward mounted low power scope, or variable pistol scope, is quite consistent with the "scout" concept and breadth of application. It wouldn't meet the "purist" definition, though. But at the end of the day, I'm not it amounts to a hill of beans whether it's a "Scout" or "J.P.'s handy all-purpose light rifle."

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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by Omega DR » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:14 pm

I love the concept, bolt action, magazine fed utility rifle. It will never replace your AR or Sniper Rifle, I'd like to see it in 5.56mm or 6.8. In jurisdiction where a traditional "black rifle" would raise too much attention as a Scout rifle wouldn't.

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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by AcidExfoliate » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:18 pm

RottnJP wrote:
J.C. wrote:
No. A big part of the Cooper's spin on the scout rifle concept was based on the fact of having modern polymer stocks and lighter steel alloys that could significantly reduce the weight of a rifle with the described capability. Cooper believed in the late seventies and early 80s that a new rifle concept was possible based upon this. ....
I don't disagree with this, but my question is, Are there objective criteria that were used to determine the 3.0 to 3.5 kg weight range?

You can certainly start with an ultralight rifle and modify it to be consistent with everything Cooper suggested. And, all other things being equal, a bolt gun will be lighter than a semi-auto. You'd really have to work at it to get a SA rifle to come in at 3.5 kg with glass...

My point is, if you lock yourself into a certain number as a requirement, that's going to drive certain choices. Are there missions that a 3.5 kg rifle can perform that a 4.0 kg rifle can not? I'm not sure there are. Far from being a "hard and fast" line, rifle weight and size is a series of trade-offs, like everything else. To me, a pound of extra weight might be a very reasonable price to pay for SA operation.

On the other hand, I suppose it's all semantics anyway. I might argue that a lightweight AR-15 in 6.5 GR or even 6.8 with a forward mounted low power scope, or variable pistol scope, is quite consistent with the "scout" concept and breadth of application. It wouldn't meet the "purist" definition, though. But at the end of the day, I'm not it amounts to a hill of beans whether it's a "Scout" or "J.P.'s handy all-purpose light rifle."
Cooper did advocate a large-caliber AR, the "Thumper". I intend to pursue the idea one day. i like the concept.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by Gingerbread Man » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:33 am

AcidExfoliate wrote:
RottnJP wrote:
J.C. wrote:
On the other hand, I suppose it's all semantics anyway. I might argue that a lightweight AR-15 in 6.5 GR or even 6.8 with a forward mounted low power scope, or variable pistol scope, is quite consistent with the "scout" concept and breadth of application. It wouldn't meet the "purist" definition, though. But at the end of the day, I'm not it amounts to a hill of beans whether it's a "Scout" or "J.P.'s handy all-purpose light rifle."
Cooper did advocate a large-caliber AR, the "Thumper". I intend to pursue the idea one day. i like the concept.
No, Cooper did not advocate a large caliber AR. He did advocate a large caliber bolt action as a Lion Scout.

I have a AR-15 in 6.5 and a AR-10 in 308. Both fit my definition of a scout rifle.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by doc66 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:30 am

You are all heathens. Heathens.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by AcidExfoliate » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:32 pm

Regular Guy wrote:
No, Cooper did not advocate a large caliber AR. He did advocate a large caliber bolt action as a Lion Scout.

I have a AR-15 in 6.5 and a AR-10 in 308. Both fit my definition of a scout rifle.
oh, sorry, my bad, Cooper advocated:

18" long with stock folder
4.5 pounds unloaded Ghostring sights
Clean trigger
Chambered for .44 AutoMag (claiming a very unrealistic 1800 f/s from a 10" bbl)*
Uses "advanced muzzle braking system" that both unlocks the action and pulls weapon forward thus mitigating recoil
20 rd box mag
Semiauto only

That couldn't be an AR at all :roll:
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by RickOShea » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:03 pm

doc66 wrote:You are all heathens. Heathens.
Hey Doc, is this "heathen" enough for you?

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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by Gingerbread Man » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:31 pm

AcidExfoliate wrote:
Regular Guy wrote:
No, Cooper did not advocate a large caliber AR. He did advocate a large caliber bolt action as a Lion Scout.

I have a AR-15 in 6.5 and a AR-10 in 308. Both fit my definition of a scout rifle.
oh, sorry, my bad, Cooper advocated:

18" long with stock folder AR don't have folding stocks. :wink:
4.5 pounds unloaded Ghostring sights
Clean trigger
Chambered for .44 AutoMag (claiming a very unrealistic 1800 f/s from a 10" bbl)*Uses "advanced muzzle braking system" that both unlocks the action and pulls weapon forward thus mitigating recoil
20 rd box mag
Semiauto only

That couldn't be an AR at all :roll:
No, you said, he advocated a large bore AR. He did not. He did advocate a large caliber semi auto. For all you know, he could have meant an AK. :mrgreen:
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by gelgoog » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:48 pm

RickOShea wrote:
doc66 wrote:You are all heathens. Heathens.
Hey Doc, is this "heathen" enough for you?

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:lol:
God put that away will you! I have enough bolt guns already, last thing I need is another project on my plate.

BTW- what kind of glass are you running on that? I am looking for a good long relief 1-4x power for a couple of lever guns.

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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by Gun_Nut_2k1 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:22 pm

Leopold LER. I had the same one on my Savage scout.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by RickOShea » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:26 pm

Gun_Nut_2k1 wrote:Leopold LER. I had the same one on my Savage scout.
Yeah, it's an FX-II in 4x.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by Makarov » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:34 pm

RickOShea wrote:
doc66 wrote:You are all heathens. Heathens.
Hey Doc, is this "heathen" enough for you?

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:lol:
Nice Enfield! The stock-hack looks both great, what kind of stock is that based on?
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by RickOShea » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:50 pm

Makarov wrote:
Nice Enfield! The stock-hack looks both great, what kind of stock is that based on?
The fore end is an ATI and the back is a modified Rem. 870 adapter made by Tactical Components.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by Bender711 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:09 pm

gelgoog wrote:
BTW- what kind of glass are you running on that? I am looking for a good long relief 1-4x power for a couple of lever guns.
Call up the Leupold custom shop, they have a 1-4 x 28mm scout scope coming out but you have to ask for it.

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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by RottnJP » Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:07 pm

Makarov wrote:
RickOShea wrote:
doc66 wrote:You are all heathens. Heathens.
Hey Doc, is this "heathen" enough for you?

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:lol:
Nice Enfield! The stock-hack looks both great, what kind of stock is that based on?
Is that what that is under there? That's sweet!

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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by doc66 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:43 pm

That is heathen enough.

Cooper advocated a .30 caliber,stripper fed, bolt action, less than one meter in length, under 3 kilograms, iron (preferably peep) sights, forward mounted glass, capable of 450 meter off hand shots with the aid of a sling.

It's an outdated concept these days. But there have been some nice custom rigs made based on those criteria.

Ah, well.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by RickOShea » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:14 pm

I just weighed my Bastard Scout and it came in at 3.75kg empty and 4.40kg with the twelve round mag loaded with 150gr SST. :(
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by RottnJP » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:52 pm

...And it still handles nice, I'll bet... :thumbsup:

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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by RickOShea » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:31 pm

I've only shot this one out to 100 yards, so far. I had one like it a few years ago and it did good out to 300.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by doc66 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:23 am

RickOShea wrote:I just weighed my Bastard Scout and it came in at 3.75kg empty and 4.40kg with the twelve round mag loaded with 150gr SST. :(
Is the rifle really the bastard here! LOL!

That's okay, my budget scout is nowhere near 3kg! Nor is it under a meter in length. It will do 450 meters off hand though.... Slings are wonderful things.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by RickOShea » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:19 am

doc66 wrote:
Is the rifle really the bastard here! LOL!
:lol:

Bastard Scout just sounded more appropriate than Pseudo Scout.

Did I mention that it has an MS2 sling.....So I can "single-point" it if the need arose.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by praharin » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:41 pm

What is that on the muzzle? That might look nice on the old Ruger Frontier. I've been looking into ways to put a front sight one it. I'd like that one better, if it would work that is.
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Re: Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle

Post by RickOShea » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:04 pm

praharin wrote:What is that on the muzzle? That might look nice on the old Ruger Frontier. I've been looking into ways to put a front sight one it. I'd like that one better, if it would work that is.
You talkin' at me, Praharin?

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That's a slip-over XM177 style flash hider threaded on to the barrel (O.A. barrel length is 18.5" with 17" of "real" barrel).

I drilled-&-tapped a Williams front sight ramp to the long flash hider. Also had to go with a tall Williams Fire Sight to line-up with the XS Ghost ring rear sight.
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