WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

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Re: WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:03 am

Buddychrist wrote:Elevation & tilt gauges, and a small compass
Or an RDS on top, for DMR use. Most of us crunchies only get one gun, so it has to multipurpose.

Also: if you put a laser on something, and it's not designed for boresighting, NV capabilities, or designating targets for Something Nasty, then you're wasting your money.
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Re: WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by Red Dawn » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:06 am

How about my Sniper Assault Pistol?
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I held a contest awhile back for people to submit their weapon attachments. This was the first place winner.
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WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by Buddychrist » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:44 am

Nature valley yogurt is the WTF in the first pic

The second picture that bipod could hold up a 155mm recoiless m388 nuke launcher!

Where we are going we don't have time to reload!

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Re: WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by RickOShea » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:22 am

Buddychrist wrote:The second picture that bipod could hold up a 155mm recoiless m388 nuke launcher!
Looks like some bolt cutters or die crimpers too me.
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Re: WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by RickOShea » Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:00 pm

Sledgecrowbar wrote:Really, once you need to add a laser/flashlight to a scoped rifle, you've already gone too far,
I guess I'll just have to disagree with you on that one, since pretty much all my ARs (even the 'scoped ones) have weapon lights mounted on them.
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Re: WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:54 pm

Lights are a different matter. Lasers, on the other hand...

Scoped doesn't mean long-range only.
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Post by Buddychrist » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:21 pm

We aren't running into a building doing room clearing with a 3x9x40 either. (Although you could claim "No Scoping" but let's be practical here)

Personally I will be happy with a 5.56 or 7.62 with a EoTech holographic, 3x hybrid flip sight, and a Flashlight/Laser combo from Surefire and then I'll be set.

But thats only a short to mid range weapon to me. No flip sight will be 100% accurate so if it's past 200 yards just give me a .270 or a .300 win mag, bolt action with a Zeiss scope.


Would you guys mind identifying this rifle for me? I think it's a Browning A bolt but I could be wrong.
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WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by Buddychrist » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:14 pm

Bump the rifle of the month

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Re: WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by Sledgecrowbar » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:02 pm

I think that unless your scope has variable magnification down to x1, using a laser or weapon light is counter to common sense. By all means, if you have a x1-4 scope that's designed to do short to medium range well, lights and lasers are short range. Trying to do room-to-room with a x3-9 scope is like reading a newspaper with binoculars.

Of course, there are exceptions. Swing-away scope mounts are one solution, I don't know how well they keep zero, but they exist so someone must use them.

You might find a trespasser on your property in the night and want to let them know you've got a gun on them at more than arms length, a x3-9 with a light would do that, though you'd need a prohibitively large light to actually throw useful light at that range (I'm thinking of my TK21, at 2x CR123A with a bulbous reflector housing, it's not terrible, but not something I want on the end of my rifle).

You might be moving at night and want a weapon light as opposed to holding a separate light and sacrificing readiness, but that light becomes ballast when you're looking through the scope.

I'm just trying to figure out circumstances, I only shoot at the ranges here in Jerseystan so my "weapon" lights only help me find brass at closing time.

I'm not familiar with "no-scoping", but I'm about to Google it.

In other news, this. To me, it seems to just be a pistol that someone forgot to stop scaling up. Or, just a way to get .50BMG energy out of 16" of barrel.

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Re: WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by RickOShea » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:28 pm

Buddychrist wrote:We aren't running into a building doing room clearing with a 3x9x40 either. (Although you could claim "No Scoping" but let's be practical here)
Sledgecrowbar wrote:I think that unless your scope has variable magnification down to x1, using a laser or weapon light is counter to common sense. By all means, if you have a x1-4 scope that's designed to do short to medium range well, lights and lasers are short range. Trying to do room-to-room with a x3-9 scope is like reading a newspaper with binoculars.
You boys seem to be suffering from the misconception that gun-mounted lights are only used for clearing buildings, or some such.

Myself and a couple of the guys do just fine with Surefire G2/Malkoffs mounted on our ARs. But most of our Fudd buddies still use "traditional" lights for our night shoots. Such as these:

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WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by Buddychrist » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:23 pm

I did not say that lights can't be used with scoped rifles. My point was don't make an assault rifle a long range sniper. It's like reinventing the wheel, they make most long range snipers bolt action for a reason.

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Re: WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by Jsimmonsgr » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:47 pm

Buddychrist wrote:I did not say that lights can't be used with scoped rifles. My point was don't make an assault rifle a long range sniper. It's like reinventing the wheel, they make most long range snipers bolt action for a reason.

Ummmm, no. The Army is dropping the M-24 in favor of the KAC M-110, its a AR-10 based semi-auto sniper rifle that is just as accurate. If you seriously think that only bolt guns are accurate enough to qualify as a sniper system then you need more experiance with the current generation of semi auto rifles.

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Re: WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by Sledgecrowbar » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:25 pm

How is the M-110 not an SR-25? Seems to me there's some marketing going on.

As for WTF, that's pretty much what I said when I saw it.
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Re: WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:31 pm

Sledgecrowbar wrote:How is the M-110 not an SR-25? Seems to me there's some marketing going on.

As for WTF, that's pretty much what I said when I saw it.
As far as I can tell, M110 is one designation, the Marine Corps calls it the Mk11. Might be some slight spec differences, as far as what comes with them.
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Re: WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by JTNieman » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:36 pm

I can think of one perfectly good use for lights on a scope rifle.

Spotlighting nuisance animals.

Not saying that people typically do it for that reason - I'm sure most people do it just to hang shit off their rails. But I could see people wanting a light on a scoped gun for spotlighting at night, in legal situations, which are plenty.

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Re: WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by docdredd » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:42 pm

JTNieman wrote:I can think of one perfectly good use for lights on a scope rifle.

Spotlighting nuisance animals.

Not saying that people typically do it for that reason - I'm sure most people do it just to hang shit off their rails. But I could see people wanting a light on a scoped gun for spotlighting at night, in legal situations, which are plenty.

Yep When I did animal control our 10/22s had lights for nighttime and under house critter getting.
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Re: WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by cityscout » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:17 pm

Doc Torr wrote:
Sledgecrowbar wrote:How is the M-110 not an SR-25? Seems to me there's some marketing going on.

As for WTF, that's pretty much what I said when I saw it.
As far as I can tell, M110 is one designation, the Marine Corps calls it the Mk11. Might be some slight spec differences, as far as what comes with them.
They are all very similar.
The SR-25 enhanced match rifle utilizes the newer URX II Picatinny-Weaver rail system, rather than the older Mk 11 free-floating RAS, on the top of the receiver to accept different scope mounts.
The new SR-25 is very similar to the KAC M110 Semi-Automatic Sniper System, though the M110 utilizes the newer URX Rail system, a length-adjustable fixed buttstock, and an integrated flash suppressor.
Starting late 2011, USMC snipers will replace Mk11 Mod 0 rifles with the M110 Semi-Automatic Sniper System on a one-for-one basis.

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Post by Buddychrist » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:02 am

Jsimmonsgr wrote:
The Army is dropping the M-24 in favor of the KAC M-110, its a AR-10 based semi-auto sniper rifle that is just as accurate. If you seriously think that only bolt guns are accurate enough to qualify as a sniper system then you need more experiance with the current generation of semi auto rifles.

Apparently you did not read my post before lashing out. I said MOST long range rifles are bolt action for a reason. At no point did I say that semi auto's cannot be considered a sniper system.

If you think that a semi auto is just as accurate as a bolt action you are clearly misinformed. Yes there are accurate semi auto rifles but they are not as accurate as a bolt action for many reasons.

Let's break this one down shall we?
Semi auto:
1. Gasses are redirected to move the action
2. Moving parts reduce accuracy
3. Bolt does not lock
4. Yes capability to fire multiple rounds faster than a bolt action
5. Faster fire rate=more heat if rapid succession of rounds and more heat directed into the action from #1
6. Heat reduces accuracy thus the invention of free floating barrel stocks

Bolt Action
1. All gasses are used to move the bullet and none diverted other than a compensator which is optional to reduce
Kick.
2. Bolt locks into place.
3. Rigid hard as a rock with no play in the action.
4. Slower fire rate
5. Because all gasses are going straight through the barrel and not diverted there is less heat exposure to the action.

A bolt action at long range will provide more consistent shot placement than a semi auto. That's not me running my mouth but flat out statistics.

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Re: WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by Polley » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:12 am

Buddychrist wrote:
Jsimmonsgr wrote:
The Army is dropping the M-24 in favor of the KAC M-110, its a AR-10 based semi-auto sniper rifle that is just as accurate. If you seriously think that only bolt guns are accurate enough to qualify as a sniper system then you need more experiance with the current generation of semi auto rifles.

Apparently you did not read my post before lashing out. I said MOST long range rifles are bolt action for a reason. At no point did I say that semi auto's cannot be considered a sniper system.

If you think that a semi auto is just as accurate as a bolt action you are clearly misinformed. Yes there are accurate semi auto rifles but they are not as accurate as a bolt action for many reasons.

Let's break this one down shall we?
Semi auto:
1. Gasses are redirected to move the action
2. Moving parts reduce accuracy
3. Bolt does not lock
4. Yes capability to fire multiple rounds faster than a bolt action
5. Faster fire rate=more heat if rapid succession of rounds and more heat directed into the action from #1
6. Heat reduces accuracy thus the invention of free floating barrel stocks

Bolt Action
1. All gasses are used to move the bullet and none diverted other than a compensator which is optional to reduce
Kick.
2. Bolt locks into place.
3. Rigid hard as a rock with no play in the action.
4. Slower fire rate
5. Because all gasses are going straight through the barrel and not diverted there is less heat exposure to the action.

A bolt action at long range will provide more consistent shot placement than a semi auto. That's not me running my mouth but flat out statistics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_cCo4rk ... ata_player
None of those parts really begin to move until the round has left the barrel, though, so any effect on accuracy is going to be quite minimal.

Also, I've tried using a scope indoors: 4x ACOG on a Colt I was borrowing. It was easy. I did this thing where I opened both eyes: yes, there was a weapon light involved, too.
Hi, Todd.

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Post by Buddychrist » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:18 am

Polley wrote:
Buddychrist wrote:
Jsimmonsgr wrote:
The Army is dropping the M-24 in favor of the KAC M-110, its a AR-10 based semi-auto sniper rifle that is just as accurate. If you seriously think that only bolt guns are accurate enough to qualify as a sniper system then you need more experiance with the current generation of semi auto rifles.

Apparently you did not read my post before lashing out. I said MOST long range rifles are bolt action for a reason. At no point did I say that semi auto's cannot be considered a sniper system.

If you think that a semi auto is just as accurate as a bolt action you are clearly misinformed. Yes there are accurate semi auto rifles but they are not as accurate as a bolt action for many reasons.

Let's break this one down shall we?
Semi auto:
1. Gasses are redirected to move the action
2. Moving parts reduce accuracy
3. Bolt does not lock
4. Yes capability to fire multiple rounds faster than a bolt action
5. Faster fire rate=more heat if rapid succession of rounds and more heat directed into the action from #1
6. Heat reduces accuracy thus the invention of free floating barrel stocks

Bolt Action
1. All gasses are used to move the bullet and none diverted other than a compensator which is optional to reduce
Kick.
2. Bolt locks into place.
3. Rigid hard as a rock with no play in the action.
4. Slower fire rate
5. Because all gasses are going straight through the barrel and not diverted there is less heat exposure to the action.

A bolt action at long range will provide more consistent shot placement than a semi auto. That's not me running my mouth but flat out statistics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_cCo4rk ... ata_player
None of those parts really begin to move until the round has left the barrel, though, so any effect on accuracy is going to be quite minimal.

Also, I've tried using a scope indoors: 4x ACOG on a Colt I was borrowing. It was easy. I did this thing where I opened both eyes: yes, there was a weapon light involved, too.
Any movement reduces accuracy. You think that the bolt goes right back exactly where it was from the last shot? It's not as consistent as a bolt action

Ok ACOG is completely different from a long range rifle scope. Being a smartass isn't needed. I did this thing where I made my point and then people just rush through and not open their eyes to read the post. Hmmph maybe you should try it here.

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Re: WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by jor-el » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:18 am

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Post by Buddychrist » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:26 am

Most of the time I see American Guns I wait for them to start bedazzling their crap. That thing is horrible, reverse brass knuckles... Why not just a bayonet? Skull compensator... Why not a match grade compensator?

No american guns just no

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Re: WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by cityscout » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:59 am

Buddychrist wrote: Apparently you did not read my post before lashing out. I said MOST long range rifles are bolt action for a reason. At no point did I say that semi auto's cannot be considered a sniper system.
Well, depending on your definition of long range, most long range rifles are semi auto.
We have the M21, M25, and M14 ERB based off the M14. We have the MK11, SR-25, and M110 variants. We have the MK12, recon rifle, and other M16/M4 based SPR's. We have the M107 and CERSR. I am sure there are some others I can't think of off the top of my head, but you get the idea.

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Re: WTF Rifle of the Month *Open to all kinds of guns now*

Post by Polley » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:21 am

Buddychrist wrote: Any movement reduces accuracy. You think that the bolt goes right back exactly where it was from the last shot? It's not as consistent as a bolt action
Not a gunsmith, so excuse any ignorance, but: since the barrel more or less "shapes" the round as it travels down the bore, how much of an effect would the bolt's location (outside of horrifically off-center) have on the round if it's being "shaped" the same by the barrel's rifling before exiting?
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