All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Asymetryczna » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:25 pm

if anyone could lay out the hierarchy
Marketing. Fire millions of rounds and you can gain a larger market. Otherwise, you are like everyone else. One stoppage might get attention online but it means nothing to the guy/gal whose rifle has not had a mis....
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by RickOShea » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:45 pm

Years ago there was "The Chart", but I don't know if there is a moar up-to-date version....




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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by BullOnParade » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:27 am

Asymetryczna wrote:
if anyone could lay out the hierarchy
Marketing. Fire millions of rounds and you can gain a larger market. Otherwise, you are like everyone else. One stoppage might get attention online but it means nothing to the guy/gal whose rifle has not had a mis....
While that's valid, an off brand manufacturer can put together a lower parts kit that is just as in spec as a Colt, last just as long, jam just as much, it's presumable that one has higher quality assurance standards over the other, and will catch and hold the out of spec parts opposed to missing it, or letting it slide.
RickOShea wrote:Years ago there was "The Chart", but I don't know if there is a moar up-to-date version....

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That's good enough.

Pairs well with the old milcop article on what to look for in a battle rifle.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Langenator » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:05 pm

How old is that chart? I'm noticing a lot of manufacturers not on it, bot higher end (LaRue, Aero) and lower end (PSA).
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by JF89 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:12 pm

Langenator wrote:How old is that chart? I'm noticing a lot of manufacturers not on it, bot higher end (LaRue, Aero) and lower end (PSA).
Early 2000's I think. Back when people went with the whole "ABC" thing.

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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by RickOShea » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:01 pm

JF89 wrote:
Langenator wrote:How old is that chart? I'm noticing a lot of manufacturers not on it, bot higher end (LaRue, Aero) and lower end (PSA).
Early 2000's I think. Back when people went with the whole "ABC" thing.
I believe "The Chart" was started back around 2006/2007. I want to say the last time it was updated was around 2011, but I'm not 100% on that.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by JF89 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:18 pm

I dont think the chart really means much anymore there are more good brands then bad , I can only really think of 3 "bad" brands. Even going by tiers is kind of sketchy due to the standard being mil spec and plenty of companies have far exceeded that so it kind of muddies the water a little.

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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by moab » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:22 pm

I wanted a simple and inexpensive AR. So I bought a DPMS AP4 with chromelined barrel last summer for cheap. I'd like to get an 11.5" upper for it. I'm assuming since it's such a cheap rifle/lower that a similarly cheap upper will be the way to go. But if I can afford it I'd like a chromelined barrel. PSA (not sure they sell a chromelined), CBC, I can't afford Bravo Company - which companies should I look at?


I'm not an AR builder. But I used one in the Corps for a long time. I'm not very familiar with what's out there or the quality of various companies. Any advice greatly appreciated. Also will a .22lr conversion work with an 11.5" barrel?

I should have saved up for a Colt 6933 for a little over a grand:

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Last edited by moab on Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by moab » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:25 pm

RickOShea wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:45 pm
Years ago there was "The Chart", but I don't know if there is a moar up-to-date version....




Image
Wow. This is very helpful. Looks like my DPMS is a complete piece of shit. lol. I should have saved up for a 6920. Buy once. Cry once.

EDIT - I'd like to see where Wyndham Weaponry comes in on this list.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Stercutus » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:01 pm

The chart is pretty dated. I don't know how many AR makers are out there but it was well North of 30 last I checked. Some of the more popular ones like PSA, Anderson, Sig, Windham, Bravo, LWRC, Aero, LaRue and a few other high quality makers are not on there. All make quality guns, some better than others with nicer features and more modern.

Colt/DD/Noveske make quality rifles but I have not touched a new Colt since the bankruptcy.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Stercutus » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:11 pm

I'd like to see where Wyndham Weaponry comes in on this list.
IDK, The only one I would stay away from for sure (other then DPMS and Olympic) is CMMG. I have seen two broken bolts in the last five years both of which were from CMMG guns. The guns did get shot a lot but a broken bolt from a quality gun is practically unheard of. In fact I only saw one in 24 years of military service with countless range hours.

Since the crash of the AR market I can get a used AR in the pawn shops locally for under $500. Careful shopping at a large used store could net you an excellent quality gun for very little.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by RickOShea » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:23 pm

moab wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:22 pm
I wanted a simple and inexpensive AR. So I bought a DPMS AP4 with chromelined barrel last summer for cheap. I'd like to get an 11.5" upper for it. I'm assuming since it's such a cheap rifle/lower that a similarly cheap upper will be the way to go. But if I can afford it I'd like a chromelined barrel. PSA (not sure they sell a chromelined), CBC, I can't afford Bravo Company - which companies should I look at?


I'm not an AR builder. But I used one in the Corps for a long time. I'm not very familiar with what's out there or the quality of various companies. Any advice greatly appreciated. Also will a .22lr conversion work with an 11.5" barrel?
Well, now-a-days you really have to pay attention to the details/descriptions. Take PSA for example, their cheaper uppers come with nitrided barrels made by God knows who, but their premium uppers come with cold hammer forged, chrome lined barrels that they get from FN.....or at least they used to get their good barrels from FN, I'm guessing they still do.

As far as the .22 conversion kits go, they are just a simple blow-back design. So it doesn't matter what barrel length you use it in.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by moab » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:39 pm

My main battle rifles are AK's. But I'd like to do something BO related to my cheap DPMS AP4. I'd like to be able to carry it in a normal sized backpack. And use it with a .22lr conversion.

Here are my options. This wouldn't be my main BO rifle. But a nice alternative to the AK's. Something to put in the truck. And/or in my backpack.

1) Sell the DPMS AP4 (I only paid $375 for it - could probably get $500 out of it?) and buy a Colt 6933 (around a grand on sale)? And put a folding stock on it.

Image

2) Buy a cheap PSA short barrel upper for the DPMS for around $300 give or take? And put a folding stock on it. I would prefer an 11.5" or 12.5" barrel with chromelining. (10.5" pictured). But I don't think PSA has made one with a chrome lined barrel recently. Their 10.5's are on sale without chrome. Or you can get an 11.5 in nitride. But nothing in chromelined 11.5" or 12.5". ***Other brands I should be looking at for a chromelined 11.5 or 12.5 upper?*** (I can see the above chart. But just thought someone might know of a decent deal on one right now. I have been perusing gun.deals.)

Image

3) Buy a different complete 11.5" AR from PSA or elsewhere. And sell the DPMS. But which one?

Me rambling...and thinking outloud.

The AK's all have folding stocks. And can already fit into full size backpacks i.e. 60L+. SO I've got concealability covered at least during travel out of the city. But something even smaller with lighter ammo is not a bad thing. Nor would something I could put a .22lr conversion in too. I'd imagine an SBR AR with folding stock could fit into an assault size backpack. Or something closer to 40L.

And basically it's just something I'd like to explore. Just not sure how much money I want to put into it. It's roughly another $500 plus a folding stock for a Colt 6933. Or $300 for a PSA upper in 11 or 12.5. But I get to keep the $500 DPMS in the process. So it's really a grand for the colt. Considering I'd have to sell the DPMS. Or $800 for the PSA upper considering I've got $500 value in the DPMS. But I'd also have a full length upper for the DPMS as well as the new short barrel upper from PSA. I don't think I would do anything with the DPMS 16" upper. I mean I don't think I would bug out with it unless via vehicle. Then I would have an 11.5" and a 16" barrel for it. Decisions. Decisions. I'm leaning towards the Colt. But my frugal self is also leaning towards only spending $300 too! Especially for what amounts to a backup gun. And not my main battle rifle. Although hidden well enough this could be a great truck gun. That I could just leave in there. And not be devastated if it got stolen. I'd have to think on that idea for while though.

I'd end up with a rifle that could be converted for small game. And good for defense out to say 200-300 yards. And that would fit into a small backpack. If they still made .22lr conversions for AK's I don't think I would be pursuing this as much though. I'd probably be cutting and recrowning an AK.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by woodsghost » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:36 pm

moab wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:39 pm
My main battle rifles are AK's. But I'd like to do something BO related to my cheap DPMS AP4. I'd like to be able to carry it in a normal sized backpack. And use it with a .22lr conversion.

Here are my options. This wouldn't be my main BO rifle. But a nice alternative to the AK's. Something to put in the truck. And/or in my backpack.

1) Sell the DPMS AP4 (I only paid $375 for it - could probably get $500 out of it?) and buy a Colt 6933 (around a grand on sale)? And put a folding stock on it.

Image

2) Buy a cheap PSA short barrel upper for the DPMS for around $300 give or take? And put a folding stock on it. I would prefer an 11.5" or 12.5" barrel with chromelining. (10.5" pictured). But I don't think PSA has made one with a chrome lined barrel recently. Their 10.5's are on sale without chrome. Or you can get an 11.5 in nitride. But nothing in chromelined 11.5" or 12.5". ***Other brands I should be looking at for a chromelined 11.5 or 12.5 upper?*** (I can see the above chart. But just thought someone might know of a decent deal on one right now. I have been perusing gun.deals.)

Image

3) Buy a different complete 11.5" AR from PSA or elsewhere. And sell the DPMS. But which one?

Me rambling...and thinking outloud.

The AK's all have folding stocks. And can already fit into full size backpacks i.e. 60L+. SO I've got concealability covered at least during travel out of the city. But something even smaller with lighter ammo is not a bad thing. Nor would something I could put a .22lr conversion in too. I'd imagine an SBR AR with folding stock could fit into an assault size backpack. Or something closer to 40L.

And basically it's just something I'd like to explore. Just not sure how much money I want to put into it. It's roughly another $500 plus a folding stock for a Colt 6933. Or $300 for a PSA upper in 11 or 12.5. But I get to keep the $500 DPMS in the process. So it's really a grand for the colt. Considering I'd have to sell the DPMS. Or $800 for the PSA upper considering I've got $500 value in the DPMS. But I'd also have a full length upper for the DPMS as well as the new short barrel upper from PSA. I don't think I would do anything with the DPMS 16" upper. I mean I don't think I would bug out with it unless via vehicle. Then I would have an 11.5" and a 16" barrel for it. Decisions. Decisions. I'm leaning towards the Colt. But my frugal self is also leaning towards only spending $300 too! Especially for what amounts to a backup gun. And not my main battle rifle. Although hidden well enough this could be a great truck gun. That I could just leave in there. And not be devastated if it got stolen. I'd have to think on that idea for while though.

I'd end up with a rifle that could be converted for small game. And good for defense out to say 200-300 yards. And that would fit into a small backpack. If they still made .22lr conversions for AK's I don't think I would be pursuing this as much though. I'd probably be cutting and recrowning an AK.
Just checking: you plan to SBR this, right? Or get a pistol receiver, leave it a pistol forever and always, and brace it? I ask because I see no reference to this and I would prefer you not commmit felonies :)

For a backup/truck gun I would go cheap. Let it be a beater. Just mho.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by JeeperCreeper » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:52 pm

I'd forget the folding AR stock... If you're gonna do that, go KelTec SU16c or extar exp556.

Me, I'd go pistol. A 10.5" or 11.5" PSA build will cost you under $500 and leave you about 26" in length if I remember.

The new SBA3 braces are the best. Great package with a pistol. Perfect for truck/pack gun.

Or just get the PLR16. IWB appendix carry.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by RickOShea » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:56 pm

Unless there's some new product out that I'm unaware of, putting a folding stock on a DI AR ain't gonna be cheap. Since you're gonna keep it in a backpack, why not get a braced AR pistol, and just pop the pins and separate the upper receiver from the lower receiver?
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Stercutus » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:53 pm

I think Hardened Arms was selling a pistol/ suppressor package for under $700. You can get the pistol now and the suppressor when the paperwork clears. That is the way I would go.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Langenator » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:45 am

This was just mentioned in the firearms chat thread...if you're really, really set on the folding stock, forget the 'true' AR and go with the SiG MCX. It's available in both SBR and braced pistol versions.

I actually handled one (pistol version) while chatting with a gun store guy (Surplus Arms & Ammo's physical store in Tacoma) and it fit easily into a normal backpack, one that wouldn't draw a second look on any college campus, or hiking trail.

But that's going to cost some extra $$$ because 1) SiG; and 2) it's not a true AR, and thus you can't go to PSA or some other 'budget' supplier for anything.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by moab » Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:19 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:52 pm
I'd forget the folding AR stock... If you're gonna do that, go KelTec SU16c or extar exp556.

Me, I'd go pistol. A 10.5" or 11.5" PSA build will cost you under $500 and leave you about 26" in length if I remember.

The new SBA3 braces are the best. Great package with a pistol. Perfect for truck/pack gun.

Or just get the PLR16. IWB appendix carry.
Say I picked up this when back in stock? https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-11- ... 47558.html How much to put a free floating handguard on it? Or can you?
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by RickOShea » Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:55 pm

In most cases, you'll have to unscrew and remove the flash hider. Tap out the two taper pins and remove the Front Sight Base & gas tube and handguard cap, and then unscrew and remove the barrel nut.....then install the new free float handguard's barrel nut (making sure it's torqued down properly and timed for the gas tube). Slip on the free float tube and secure it to the barrel nut, and then reattach the FSB & gas tube and flash hider.

If you're going to go with a longer free float tube than the standard carbine length, you'll have to replace the FSB with a lowpro gas block or possibly modify the existing FSB so it will fit inside the tube (which means grinding/cutting off the front sight post, bayonet lug, and sling swivel).



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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by RickOShea » Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:12 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:01 pm
The chart is pretty dated. I don't know how many AR makers are out there but it was well North of 30 last I checked. Some of the more popular ones like PSA, Anderson, Sig, Windham, Bravo, LWRC, Aero, LaRue and a few other high quality makers are not on there. All make quality guns, some better than others with nicer features and more modern.
Oh FYI, Bravo is on there. "BCM" = "Bravo Company Manufacturing", in between Colt and Daniel Defense.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Stercutus » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:21 pm

TBH I can get a FSB with front sight post installed around here for $10. This is cheaper than I can buy one. I can then grind off the post if don't like it need it. It will be better than many after ones.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:48 pm

moab wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:19 pm
JeeperCreeper wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:52 pm
I'd forget the folding AR stock... If you're gonna do that, go KelTec SU16c or extar exp556.

Me, I'd go pistol. A 10.5" or 11.5" PSA build will cost you under $500 and leave you about 26" in length if I remember.

The new SBA3 braces are the best. Great package with a pistol. Perfect for truck/pack gun.

Or just get the PLR16. IWB appendix carry.
Say I picked up this when back in stock? https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-11- ... 47558.html How much to put a free floating handguard on it? Or can you?
I have that upper! It's sick, but if you're doing PSA, just get a free float from the get-go. You'll save time and money in the end.

I would just buy this and call it a day...

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-10- ... 48877.html
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by moab » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:36 am

JeeperCreeper wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:48 pm
moab wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:19 pm
JeeperCreeper wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:52 pm
I'd forget the folding AR stock... If you're gonna do that, go KelTec SU16c or extar exp556.

Me, I'd go pistol. A 10.5" or 11.5" PSA build will cost you under $500 and leave you about 26" in length if I remember.

The new SBA3 braces are the best. Great package with a pistol. Perfect for truck/pack gun.

Or just get the PLR16. IWB appendix carry.
Say I picked up this when back in stock? https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-11- ... 47558.html How much to put a free floating handguard on it? Or can you?
I have that upper! It's sick, but if you're doing PSA, just get a free float from the get-go. You'll save time and money in the end.

I would just buy this and call it a day...

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-10- ... 48877.html
I would buy that in 10.5 for sure. Because of the free float handguard already being installed. But leaning towards 11-11.5". Read a lot about it being easier on ammo after you get past the 10.5" length. Not having to tune the gas port so closely(?). Something like that. PSA sells an 11" but not in stock at the moment. I may wait for that to come back in stock. Unless I find another brand in that price range I can trust. I would actually prefer 11.5-12".
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