12GA rifle from hell

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hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:25 am

More slugs.Some .660" diameter 630 gr hard cast
slugs in the red WIN wadcup in 3.5" plastic
case. Tested in rifled long barrel in 12ga
NEF about 2100 fps. Greg Sappington makes
these. They are hollow point. I also fired
a couple to see if they'd work in my long
brass cased 16GA FH shown in the picture.
They work ok, so Greg has a double duty
slug.They'd work in 16ga plastic also.
The 16ga was held at 1500 as the barrel
isn't heavy, on my Stevens/Revelation 16ga. Ed

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Other option once for loading are BPI sabots you
can do yourself. Left two have 420 gr lead slugs, and
right one is 385 gr slug. You can go up to 500 gr in these.

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Once you have a gun setup heavy barrel and 3.5"
chamber, you can shoot 3.5" plastic or brass cases.
Comparing brass cases.I tell everybody who are stepping
up in power from 3.5 plastic, you can get 3.5" brass cases
from Rocky Mtn Cartridge. Here you can see how heavy
and nice they are compared to regular brass cases.
They also make shorter 3" brass cases also.
They fit the chamber tight and are long enough to
get some serious thumping power.And they have a
super strong, thick , solid head, not a weak balloon head
like regular ones on the left in pic.Ed

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hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:35 pm

This could be called a 32 GA FH.
Tested my 499HE in a NEF.Sometimes you develop a
cartridge just for a certain bunch of guns, those
being all the underwhelming 500 S&W out there in
NEFs. As well as shops always have these bullets
in supply, much more than other big bore bullets.
So I had a long case here that I made years ago
as a long .510" cal, and I change the shape a little
to fit all of the .500" cal bullets out there.
Following loads easy on brass, I didn't have to
full length resize the case, only top 1/4 of case that
expanded a little. 325gr at 2600, 500gr at 2150.
In my NEF I can get both weight bullets 300 fps faster,
still extract very easy. With higher velocities they
resize easy, And this case gets these great velocities
at 50-60% of the pressure as the original case in NEF.

I got finish 499HE reamer made by Manson.. Just run it
in NEF 500 chamber and you got a blaster. And add
a little weight and thick pad to the gun. I have
a barrel ring to hold forearm along with original
bolt, as I added weight there as well as the butt.Ed

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hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:09 pm

When we try to make slug loads and need longer,
heavy barrels to use the slower powders.......
It is great when a company does it close to right.
Finally an 870 with longer 1" muzzle barrel. Barrel
is heavier than most all add on pump gun barrels,
and it is 25.5" long, Something that would really get
it on with the slower powder loads we have.
Rifled barrel is solid mount in receiver, scoperail solid mount.

It is the REM 870 Super Slug Gun.
Nice long heavy barrel, and thumbhole stock for
handling recoil better. Plastic case 3" slug loads of ours that
gets 600gr slugs to 1800-1900 fps, work great in this
Like the ones I load and roll crimp in second picture
that are setting behind the little vise, and the one in the
vise ready to be crimped...Ed

Image

Image

hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:23 pm

Here is a novel slug idea, hard plastic support ring on
the front, and a locked base ring/seal. Metal never
touches the bores. Work in great rifled and good in
smooth barrels. These are steel, lead/copper would do
great also.Could be made heavier and different points.
Flat point shown would do great damage to game.
If you could get plastic pieces you could cast slugs with
grooves, put on plastic and save some bucks.
On the net- ammunitiontogo.com
This one is about 500 gr.

Second picture is the 499HE to use in redoing the 500S&W,
shown on the also, in single shots, etc,for those wanting
much more power at 40-50% lower pressures.Ed

Image

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hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:38 am

Some more testing with RE17 powder. I used it in 2.75",
3", 3.5" 12ga plastic, 3.5 and 3.85" brass. I like it the
best of all, as well as the real slow powders in our
long case with BMG primer.
Following tested in Savage-max pressure 35k psi.
I took couple of our first made 3.85" BMG based
long cases and bushed them back to use shotgun primers
to fire off the RE17. Works great, with 715gr jacketed slug
and 220 gr RE17 getting 2700 . With 420 gr slug in
BPI sabot with 250 gr RE17 getting 3200 plus.
Following tested in NEF-max pressure 25k psi.
Using 3.5" MRC brass, 715gr jkt and 200gr RE17, got 2500.
420 gr in BPI sabot and 220 gr Re17, got 2900 fps.
And we get real good velocities in plastic with half the
basecup expansion of factory mag loads.So that solves
problem-IE, being able to use regular firing mechanisms and
shotgun primers, with large enough powder charges to
get hairy velocities at mag shotgun pressures in plastic
and higher in brass cases with heavy barrels.A good powder
for plastic and brass loads.
I see now that Lightfield Co has the Commander 3.5" Plus
slug loads with 600gr at 1900, probably in a test barrel.
But that is great- nice, as it seems we're being copied!!!
WE had 600gr load in 3" plastic, that fast, 3 years ago with our
slow powder loads, that we had lab pressure test, and it came
in less than 15,000 psi.

Here is picture of the cases we make from BMG brass with
a bushings in for smaller primers. Left bmg primer, 2nd shotgun
primer in bushing,3rd a large rifle primer in bushing.Ed

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stefan2004
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by stefan2004 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:00 am

meh, thats just childs play!, this is what you want!

.700 Nitro express (mind you the empty cartridge alone will set you back $100, and the gun?.....$60,000)

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hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:19 am

Big money doesn't always mean the most powerful.
Here is picture of a 700NE, left, next to our 12ga FH , 2nd,and
my 700 Hubel Express(700HE) right.. I can outdo the 700NE with
our 12ga FH in my Savage bolt gun easy.And my 700HE
is better yet.Our cases are about ten bucks each, and last forever,
and guns are affordable so regular income folks can setup one.Ed

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hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:44 pm

So many guys want sabot type slugs to reload their own.
Here is an interesting combination slug available in Europe
and they are working to get distributors/stores here.
Any interested stores and shops contact them. We need
many sources of saboted slugs for reloading. The sabot
petals discards completely as slug exits muzzle and locked
on base stays with slug, making it nose heavy so it will give
decent accuracy in smooth bores.Will work in rifled barrels
also. Slug is .629" diameter, comes in 570gr, 700gr, 970gr
weights. They are selling these for reloaders only.
It is called the US-S slug, and their site is
europeancartridgeunlimited.com ..Ed

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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:43 pm

This may have been asked earlier so forgive if it has, but are the barrels on your guns rifled or are they smoothbore ?
Also which type of barrel (smoothbore or rifled) would better suited for something like this ?

hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:17 pm

I have 4 12ga rifled, 2 smooth, a 10ga smooth, 2 8ga smooth,
and 4ga I'm doing is smooth. There are great slugs for
both 12ga types. For my smooth barrel on the 87, it is hard to
beat a 1 oz BPI AQ slug. For my rifled I like Lightfields ,
BPI sabots with 420 gr, lymans, in light
slugs and Dixie 600 gr and RGs jacketed 715gr
in heavier slugs. Ed

hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:46 pm

That slug with the combination design ,if we could
get plastic pieces, we could cast lead also. Work for
deer and hogs great.They are pushing them for smoothbore
use as a that is what a lot their folks use. The lightest one
would be great in my 1887 with heavy smooth bore barrel.Ed

hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:37 pm

The company kindly gave me few US-S slugs to test at high speeds.
I had helped him test another slug a while back.
He sent me some each of the US-S 570 gr, 700 gr, 970 gr.
I tested the 570 gr so far and in 3.5" plastic case in the 1887
smoothbore 35" barrel and in the NEF rifled 36" barrel at
1900 fps. I got that with 130gr of RE17 with one BPGS
seal under the sabot on the slug. The bottom of the sabot seal
is exactly like a BPGS, so a BPGS added gives double sealing.
Both smooth and rifled gave 3 shot 3" group each at 50 yds with
peep sights and bad eyes. This slug does as good as advertized
in smooth barrels, and smooth accuracy is as good as rifled.
My smooth barrel is tight, measuring 723" at muzzle.
These should be a great deer and hog slug. Folks need to
ask their dealers to work to import these for them
to have what seems a good slug to reload...

On another note we may have found a guy who is gearing up
to make 10 ga rifled barrels. I'll know later this winter
If so I will put one on a bolt action and use the 4.1" long
10GA FH case I made or get some like it from RMC..Ed

hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:05 am

Here is picture of the US-S slugs in a lineup
with other 12ga slugs I'm testing. Lefteris was
kind enough to send me a few of each weight
to test. They are the 3 in second row on the right.
They are 570gr, 700 gr, 970 gr. I tested 570gr in
3.5" plastic so far. At 1900 in the NEF rifled, and
in the 1887 smooth barrel, got 3" group on both.
With peep sights an bad eyes.So the US-S slug
is great in smoothbores, as good as rifled. My
smoothbore on the 1887 is .723" bore at muzzle,
a nice tight fit for smooth slugs. The smooth
bores Lefteris tested them with are .722" muzzle,
and they've already killed 5 wild boars, one shot
kills with the 570gr slug. Also if anyone wants a
heavy smoothbore new 12ga barrel, .722" muzzle,
1.375" outside diameter to make a great slug
gun with slugs like these, and others like the
Brenekkes, I have spare one. The US-S slugs
are smoothbore accurate in my 87 like the
Brenekke KOs.In the picture the left two cases
are 3.5" Fiocchi with the Fiocchi magnum primers.
I compared that primer to the REM 209 primer and
it has about the same strength.Next two are FED 3.5".
then 2 12GA FH 3.85" cases, then 3.5" RMC brass, then
3" RMC brass, the 2 WIN 3.5", then 2 REM 3.5".ED

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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by TNP S1leNt RIP » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:09 am

thechin wrote:
grand94jeep wrote:W T F do you need a projectile that big for??? :shock:

I bet that sum-bitch kicks like a mule.
Those zombie elephants aren't going to kill themselves

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That is freaking tight!
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hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:07 pm

I got the 700H 3.25 case feeding from the magazine I set
up on the Montana Rifle Co PH action. It is singlestack with
feed lips similiar to 12ga shotgun clip style magazines I
had here. Works great, shown in first picture. Now it is longer
than regular 12ga mags, but same setup would do for feeding
long brass 12GA FH and long MRC 12ga cases. The
700H 3.25 is 3.9 inches overall loaded length. In picture
case is ready to clear the mag lips, then rim pops up under
extracter as bolt is moving forward. Second picture is
the box used that I made out of two PH boxes. That allowed
for extra height and fit for singlestack and riveted together.
Used a Savage 210 12ga follower and spring. ED

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hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:12 pm

The 700gr US-S slug in smoothbore, at 2000
in a 3.5" brass case, got a 2.5" 3 shot group
at 50 yds. Great slugs they have come up with
for smoothbores.
Some of us talking about getting 10 ga rifled
barrels made, here is a picture of my 4.1" long
brass 10ga I made from 50cal Russian by putting
on a rim like the 12GA FH is built.Just a prototype,
third in picture. Later I'll get RMC to make some,
as it is much easier way. First in picture is
16GA FH 3.5" long, 2nd 12GA FH 3.85" long,
3rd 10GA FH 3.1" long, 4th 8GA FH 4.3" long.Ed

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hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:20 pm

I now have a variety of 12GA FH test guns including
two Savage 210s in the lineup..my 2 NEFS, 1887WIN,
one with regular slug barrel on the GEHA Mauser.
And I am doing another, a belted 12ga using the
55cal BOYES brass with the belt diameter reduced
to .825", leaving the base as it is, same as 12ga size
and straightening case out to 12ga .729" bore.
So I have a gun to spare and I'm passing on the first
12GA FH that I did, on the Savage 210 bolt action.
Its in original Savage stock now, 28" Pacnor rifled barrel.
Stock is weighted and double thick recoil pad.
It is chambered for the original 3.85" long 12GA FH
case. It will take shorter cases also.
750 plus shipping, included 4 of our long cases and
30 slugs.That is the first 12GA FH built on a Savage
and the second 12GA FH ever built. Pickup here for MI
guys ok also. Savage 210s are now 550 bucks, the heavy
rifled barrel cost 350 bucks..Ed

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spacecase0
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by spacecase0 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:07 pm

you have me thinking about building a new gun,
and now I read that you are selling them...
must think about it...
"1911, AK, corn bread, red/blue wire neutral"
people in america still like to pretend they are free, the day they know they are not, they will stop pretending

hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:14 pm

I'm only passing on a spare to someone
who is lucky enough to get it from me.
First who send funds gets it. I post on 55 forums.
I not a seller as a business or a factory.
Just one 12GA FH.
And as ready to go much less than having
same from built by a smith from scratch.Ed

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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:28 am

Matthew in Oregon got the 12GA FH Savage.
He is now in the recoil club.

Here is picture of the 12ga belted cases I made to
test a few loads in. I made it from 55cal belted
Boys case. I reduced belt diameter a little and left
the base the same, which is 12ga size.In picture
first is 55cal, second expanded to .620", third
expanded to .660"(16ga), then two 12 ga ones.
Next is our 12GA FH, and then a 12ga 3.5"
plastic case.A little work in long 12ga FH chamber
with a tool for belt step and it chambers. Ed

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hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:58 am

Here is a picture of US-S brass slug after going through
3 foot of wood slabs in a bundle. It has shed its plastic
base and it went through straight without tumbling.
This one is 570 gr fired at 2200 in RMC case, from NEF.
Also in picture is one with white sabot petals off, as it
would be in flight, before hitting target.Ed

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hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:52 pm

Guys are having success with our slow powder loads
in 12ga and 20 ga. Two long shots that got deer, one
150 plus yards, one of 230 yards, have been reported.

4bore work. Working on design of firing pin,
and waiting for parts now. Problem is getting
real small parts without CNC for bushed
firing pin with rebound spring. But it takes
time.

We will have swaged lead 4bore slugs
in a little while as my barrel is smooth. They
will be 1600gr hollowbase, when done,
a hundred of them at least.
Got wads and cards, shown in the picture with 4bore
cases and slugs. And my 2bore case for comparison
Also 12ga wads for comparison..Ed

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hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:05 pm

Our cartridge work and experimenting got a nice
write up in # 470 Nov/Dec International Ammunition
Journal. Page 10-11 by Zach Weighman, a
cartridge collector and gun nut friend.

I got a guy who now takes BMG cases and for a rim
puts on the high base cup from a plastic case. He turns
base/rim of bmg case about .008" and use JB Kwik to hold
it on. Pushes it on with press. He removes base cup with
heat gun from plastic cases,

He is using RE17, so shotgun primers will work, and he
puts bushing in case for primer. Has bushing reamed so
the primer pocket protrusion on the base cup goes up inside
tight, as he pushes on the base cup. It'll fire ok and to size it
do like I do, I push case into open top die, and push it
back out from the top with a rod and hammer. That
way the rim don't get bent up. He says it saves a lot of
time not having to make rim pieces.

We will have more info and pictures next few weeks.Ed

hubel458
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Re: 12GA rifle from hell

Post by hubel458 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:08 am

Here is a picture of a BPI sabot with a BPI Flexseal I
use on to it in place of the original cushion seal.
I also cut shallow slots in the outside at the bottom
of the petals. Sabot opens much quicker and seems
along with BPGS seals under it to work ok without
damage, giving high velocities. In pic on left is regular
BPI sabot, behind is one I put a cushion on from a
Brenekke KO slug, and in front the one with Flexseal on.
The slug in it is one a guy casts at 440 gr and .504"
diameter, and works ok.

New info on my 499HE, from now on we will make cases
out of 450 #2 brass, as Jamisons has 3-4000 cases,
and it seems no one has the 475 #2 we used first.
Only slight case dimension change is the base .012"
smaller, all else is the same. I'm getting reamers redone
and will be able to use in couple weeks. Case will still have
plenty of taper to extract easy in singles, doubles,
falling blocks.etc.

And speaking of falling blocks I found one, and put my 585HE
in it, and it is big enough and has enough clearance to be used
for a 577NE, 600NE, long 20ga, my long 16ga FH,
the 700H, the 700HE. Cost no more than Ruger, with barrel
figured in. Will have pics
and info soon. Ed

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