Question: AK's legal in Jersey?

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Justedd 233
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Question: AK's legal in Jersey?

Post by Justedd 233 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:11 am

Hey all, I'm a new member here and was wondering if you guy's can answer a question for me.

I was down at Sunset Hill Shooting Range in PA the other day (where NRA instructors let you demo their personal arsenal), and I've gotta say I'd like to own a semi-auto rifle, preferably an AK in 223.

However, knowing how NJ tends to crack down on "criminals buying AK's" (last time I checked gang members preferred .25's), I asked one of the instructors on their legality in NJ.

Well he told me people from NJ come in with AK's all the time! Are there any Ak owners from Jersey here who can fill me in?

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Post by ClownRacer » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:07 am

you can own one....but you gotta use 10 round mags......btw next time your going to sunset hill shoot me a pm i would love to link up with another zs'er

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Post by LittleTeapot » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:28 am

ClownRacer wrote:you can own one....but you gotta use 10 round mags......
That's just wrong.
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Post by doc savage » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:10 am

there are several brands and manufacturers which are legal in NJ ( Arsenal, WASR-10, norinco sporter..) check out Butch's firearms in Vineland NJ. he has the most exotic stuff that's NJ legal in the state.

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Post by Dave_M » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:30 am

Limited to 10 round mags? Want a .223?


My vote is for a Saiga .223. Seems like a perfect choice.
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Post by ClownRacer » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:18 am

if i were still in jersey(thank god im not)
my choice would be a tromix 12 gauge ak make those 10 rounds count!

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Post by AwPhuch » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:28 pm

ClownRacer wrote:if i were still in jersey(thank god im not)
my choice would be a tromix 12 gauge ak make those 10 rounds count!

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Thats a SBS, so it would cost $200 tax stamp..and if you live in "one of those" states..you can't get one anyway.
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Post by AwPhuch » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:29 pm

ClownRacer wrote:if i were still in jersey(thank god im not)
my choice would be a tromix 12 gauge ak make those 10 rounds count!

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Thats a SBS, so it would cost $200 tax stamp..and if you live in "one of those" states..you can't get one anyway.

18.5" barrel to be non SBS (short barrel shotgun)
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Post by PHMadness » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:56 pm

Wow. Educational thread for me. I worked in Jersey for several months and was told by several that even uttering the letters AR or AK could get you into trouble.

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Post by Justedd 233 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:00 pm

Thanks for the responses! Dont they also count the number of scary looking parts on your gun like pistol grips and folding stocks?

Whats the point of being allowed to own guns if all the cool ones are inexplicably illegal?

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Post by Firedan » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:40 pm

NJ has a list of weapons that are banned and a list of features that if your weapon has two or more of, it is banned.

The AK47 and several variants of it are on the list of banned weapons. So are the AR15, CAR15, AK74, etc.

People still own them legally however.

You can own an AK "styled" rifle, like a WASR 10 so long as it does not say "AK47" anywhere on the gun. As a Semi-Auto rifle, you can have ONE of the following features:

-pistol grip
-folding stock
-flash suppressor
-bayonet lug

Two or more of the above features will make it "substantially similiar" to the actual AK47 and thus make it illegal. There are a couple of places that will sell the WASR-10 with a fixed stock, no flash suppressor and no bayonet lug which makes it NJ legal.

The magazine limit for NJ is 15. If you can find someone that sells 15 round AK mags you are golden. Otherwise, 10, the industry standard for communist states, is all you get. A little factoid, in NJ the Glock 19 is way more popular than the 17. If you get a 19 you can have your 15 round magazines. If you buy a 17, they come with 10 rounders instead of the beautiful 17 round mag.
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My AR15 is civilian legal in NJ. It is not an "AR15" nor does it say "AR15" anywhere on it. It is a "DPMS A15". It has a muzzlebrake not a flashsuppressor, the collapseable stock is permanently pinned. The bayonet lug has been removed and the mags it came with are 10 rounders.



To buy an AKish rifle, there's also Brick Armory in Central Jersey and Sarco in Northern Jersey. Hope this helps.
Regards,

Dan


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Post by Firedan » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:04 pm

ClownRacer wrote:if i were still in jersey(thank god im not)
my choice would be a tromix 12 gauge ak make those 10 rounds count!

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I missed this one.

This is not permitted in NJ. Semi-auto shotguns have a whole different set of "features".

The detachable box magazine, pistol grip, and if that stock folds, make it a no-no. Semi-auto Shottys cannot have those features and I am 99% certain the mag tube limit is four - it might be five but it is prolly four. I'd have to look that up if it ever became an issue.

Another point of interest; Bolt action and pump action are typically not limited by those semi auto restrictions. So get yourself a Remy 870 (if you want a shotty) and pimp away. As long as you stick to federal rules, you'll be okay in Jersey.

To get all the rules out, I'd be typing for hours with at least 10 links and 40 quotes from the 2C manual, (criminal code book). If you have any other specific questions, I float around here fairly regularly. Otherwise, when I have more time, I will post more info.
Regards,

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Post by Justedd 233 » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:25 am

Does a telescoping stock (like on an M4 carbine) count as a fixed stock? Or is that one of those iffy things where whether or not you get arrested for it depends on the personal judgement of the ATF agent currently frisking you decides? (i.e. whether or not he has to meet his unnecessary arrest quota)

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Post by doc savage » Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:50 am

nope, that's illegal in NJ too.....
collapsable = folding in NJ.... shortens length of gun......makes your RIFLE easier to conceal on your body somehow. :) retarded law.

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Post by ClownRacer » Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:00 am

real talk buy a non neutered ak and move to pa.....just commute like everyone else here :)

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Post by Firedan » Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:07 am

Justedd 233 wrote:Does a telescoping stock (like on an M4 carbine) count as a fixed stock? Or is that one of those iffy things where whether or not you get arrested for it depends on the personal judgement of the ATF agent currently frisking you decides? (i.e. whether or not he has to meet his unnecessary arrest quota)
Folding = collapsing = telescoping = adjustable. Stock must be solid or pinned, welded, expoxied etc to make it fixed. You can have an M4 style stock, pinned to it's shortest configuration or it's longest. But if it's length is adjustable to the user (and there is another scary feature like a pistol grip) it becomes NJ's definition of an "assault rifle."

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FWIW, there are no quotas in NJ for either criminal arrests or motor vehicle summonses. The Attorney General has indicated that setting one would be against AG guidelines and therefore illegal for an agency to do. Arrests and tickets are counted to measure individual officer productivity and for statistics and reporting, but there are no minimums.



There are also no maximums...... :twisted:


just kidding
Regards,

Dan


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Justedd 233
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Post by Justedd 233 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:41 pm

I heard dragunuv style stocks don't count as pistol grips for some reason, is this true in NJ?

If so maybe I can legally have a pistol grip AND muzzle brake.

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Post by Firedan » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:32 am

Justedd 233 wrote:I heard dragunuv style stocks don't count as pistol grips for some reason, is this true in NJ?

If so maybe I can legally have a pistol grip AND muzzle brake.
That is correct. Also I want to clarify flash suppressors are the "bad" feature. :roll: Muzzle Brakes are fine. There is a difference. One conceals your position by reducing muzzle flash, the other reduces felt recoil to the shooter but is often louder or brighter. I have a Miculek Muzzle break on my AR. I love it. Not only does it make an already little-recoil round like the .223 feel like less than a .22 lr, but it is extremely obnoxious to shoot next to me so most people leave me alone. ;) :twisted: ;) Personally, even if I had the option, I prefer the muzzle brake.


Anyway back to the original question: With a thumb hole stock, (in other words a Dragnuv stock), theoretically you could have a flash suppressor as long as there is no bayonet lug and this isn't some kind of folding thumb hole stock you invented. Don't forget the 15 round limit.
Regards,

Dan


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Post by lefty » Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:33 pm

just move to another state :lol:
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Post by Obiwan » Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:24 pm

lefty wrote:just move to another state :lol:
And stop getting legal advice on the internet :lol:
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Post by Justedd 233 » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:39 pm

thats another thing, I don't think I've ever seen a non-30 round .223 magazine for an AK variant.

If the SHTF I would appreciate the creature comfort of knowing that the bullets for my weapon are at least made in the same country as me.

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Post by zXzGrifterzXz » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:47 pm

Justedd 233 wrote:If the SHTF I would appreciate the creature comfort of knowing that the bullets for my weapon are at least made in the same country as me.
If you do not have the $$$ to buy an AR variant then there is a very good chance you are not going to want to pay the prices for domestically produced ammo. Last time I checked, Lake City .223/5.56(The same plant that makes the ammo for our troops) was double or more the price of foreign ammo.
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