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The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:38 pm
by the_alias
I want a PCC - 9mm is so cheap (for now...) and it just seems fun gun to add to the arsenal.

Here are the options I'm considering with pro's and con's I can think of - looking for feedback and experience from people who own/have shot.

Ruger PC9

Pro's:

- Uses Glock mags - I have a bunch already
- Good price
- Looks like TaranTactical might be producing some aftermarket stuff for this rifle
- Rail system

Con's:

- Heard mixed stuff about Ruger's quality control
- From some USPSA people I know rumours of some reliability issues
- Less 'cool' than some of the other options

AR9

Pro's:

- Same manual of arms as AR
- Good parts/options availability
- Can build it out myself most likely over time
- Build a Glock mag compatible one
- Option to make it a pistol (7inch or 10 inch barrel)

Con's:

- Blowback from suppressing (if I do later) meant to be nasty
- It's another AR (I'll be honest aesthetics matter and I have 2 AR's already)
- Price - making a high end one seems pretty pricey

Scorpion Evos3

Pro's

- Like the looks
- Seems good to suppress
- CZ good quality
- All in one package
- Could also buy a pistol with brace

Con's

- Trigger meant to be pretty bad (springs and upgrade packages are available)
- Buying new mags is a pain for a few reasons.
- Double the cost of a PC9

Keltec Sub2000

Pro's

- Foldable
- Glock mags
- Cheap

Con's

- Seems hard to find
- Reliability?
- Aesthetics/life

Others?

What am I missing? Ideally I think I would like to keep it to having always option of it being a real rifle so I can shoot occasional USPSA PCC match (for fun not competition)...

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:15 pm
by raptor
You did leave out the Beretta Storm. That said no Glock magazine compatability.
https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/ ... -carbines/

The other one is the Mech-tech conversion for the Glock. I have read good and bad things about their reliability
https://mechtechsys.com/glock-carbine-conversion/

The Roni with a 16 inch barrel is another version. This uses the standard Glock pistol albeit with a 16 inch barrel to avoid the stamp tax and get better velocity.
https://www.glockstore.com/RONI-Civilia ... 6-Barrel_2

The two above are clearly Glock compatible.

I have looked at these with an eye towards buying one but have not pulled the trigger yet( yes bad pun intended).

My purposes are a bit different. I wanted it to replace an AR pistol I use for self defense.

You hit on the key issues for me Glock magazine compatibility and reliability.

I got my hands on a Keltec 2000 at a range and honestly the cheek weld and ergonomics did not work for me. It was ok but it just did not work for me. Be sure to try one before you buy one. The sights were also plastic and flimsy but that can be fixed.

The Ruger is IMO the better choice for me although I agree it is truly a Fudd firearm. However it fit my hands and the sights were ok for me. The ergonomics reminded me of a 10/22.

I would suggest the Roni conversion since it utilizes the very reliable Glock pistol albeit with a longer barrel. It should be very reliable.

In the end I went a different route and stayed with the Ar pistol.

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:06 pm
by Burncycle
I haven't really found the perfect PCC yet. Nearly all of them seem unnecessarily bulky or have a cheap feeling.



AR based PDWs can get pretty darn small
Image

and can be had in better calibers like 300 blackout. With AR kits and platforms being very inexpensive lately, it would be the near perfect solution if ammunition wasn't so obnoxiously expensive, so I get the appeal of a PCC -- they just need to make them smaller.


The in development Tac 9 is intriguing from a size and simplicity standpoint. Presumably they'll be adding sights at some point...

Image

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:19 pm
by Stercutus
Tac 9 is intriguing from a size and simplicity standpoint. Presumably they'll be adding sights at some point...
If it is anything like the Tec-9 it is trying to look like it won't need sights. Every round will head in a random direction.


I'm on the AR Pistol bandwagon. It's easier to suppress and you can change calibers faster than changing your socks.


Also nobody mentioned the HiPoint which now comes in four calibers last I checked. Uglier than a Mexican Hairless mixed with a Chinese Crested but it works.

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:01 pm
by boskone
I wish someone would make one compatible with XD mags; I already own the pistol, dangit. Theoretically I could pretty easily convert my mags for a Beretta 92-compat one, but AFAIK offhand there's only the CX4 Storm and some even more expensive AR PCCs. :\

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:14 am
by flybynight
Stercutus wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:19 pm
Tac 9 is intriguing from a size and simplicity standpoint. Presumably they'll be adding sights at some point...
If it is anything like the Tec-9 it is trying to look like it won't need sights. Every round will head in a random direction.


I'm on the AR Pistol bandwagon. It's easier to suppress and you can change calibers faster than changing your socks.


Also nobody mentioned the HiPoint which now comes in four calibers last I checked. Uglier than a Mexican Hairless mixed with a Chinese Crested but it works.
Image



Also what about those AK- 9's?

Image

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:52 am
by emclean
boskone wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:01 pm
I wish someone would make one compatible with XD mags; I already own the pistol, dangit. Theoretically I could pretty easily convert my mags for a Beretta 92-compat one, but AFAIK offhand there's only the CX4 Storm and some even more expensive AR PCCs. :\
look up Thureon Defense, they make an AR-ish PCC that takes XD, M&P or Sig mags.

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:50 am
by Zed Hunter
No I won't sell my camp carbine.

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:34 pm
by Dabster
No love for the super-soft-shooting Kriss Vector?

Image

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:21 pm
by flybynight
Zed Hunter wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:50 am
No I won't sell my camp carbine.
Well if you insist. Yes you can just give me your camp carbine :clap: :clownshoes:

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:23 pm
by the_alias
These responses have slightly disappointed me :(

RE Kriss Vector - shot one at the range once - where the safety was felt pretty bad to me...

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:18 pm
by flybynight
the_alias wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:23 pm
These responses have slightly disappointed me :(

RE Kriss Vector - shot one at the range once - where the safety was felt pretty bad to me...
Well what did you expect? There is no wondernine of the carbine land. Z H's camp nine is probably the best of the bunch and they haven't made those in over thirty odd years.

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:03 pm
by raptor
the_alias wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:23 pm
These responses have slightly disappointed me :(

RE Kriss Vector - shot one at the range once - where the safety was felt pretty bad to me...
The last PCC in 9mm that I liked was a S&W Model 76 clone.

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:32 am
by Mrselfdestruct
I bought a PC9, range report as soon as its unwrapped and i figure out how to post pics...

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:02 am
by Halfapint
Shot the sub2k and well...... Unless you’re a child, or someone who has a no longer has and upper or lower jaw, you just cannot get a good sight down the optics.

The beretta was better, but I didn’t like the scope the guy had on it. Also the trigger seemed odd.

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:53 am
by Langenator
Halfapint wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:02 am
Shot the sub2k and well...... Unless you’re a child, or someone who has a no longer has and upper or lower jaw, you just cannot get a good sight down the optics.

The beretta was better, but I didn’t like the scope the guy had on it. Also the trigger seemed odd.
I've shot my FiL's sub-2K,and I had no issues with sighting. *shrug*

Also, Kel-Tec does make a version that takes Beretta mags, although the Glock-compatible version is by far the most common.

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:19 pm
by JeeperCreeper
Ideally...

If I went pistol I'd go AR or AK platform

If I went rifle, I'd go Ruger PC9

If I went for something other than 9mm, I'd go with that Aero Survival thingy

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:15 am
by Zed Hunter
The reason I went with the TNW ASR is I dont know what ammo is going to be available.

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:40 am
by Stercutus
Halfapint wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:02 am
Shot the sub2k and well...... Unless you’re a child, or someone who has a no longer has and upper or lower jaw, you just cannot get a good sight down the optics.

The beretta was better, but I didn’t like the scope the guy had on it. Also the trigger seemed odd.
I got a good laugh the other day when a TV show my on was watching employed one as sniper rifle.

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:35 pm
by Halfapint
Stercutus wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:40 am
Halfapint wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:02 am
Shot the sub2k and well...... Unless you’re a child, or someone who has a no longer has and upper or lower jaw, you just cannot get a good sight down the optics.

The beretta was better, but I didn’t like the scope the guy had on it. Also the trigger seemed odd.
I got a good laugh the other day when a TV show my on was watching employed one as sniper rifle.
Wait..... they're not?! well shit I'm going to have to rethink my entire plan now!

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:04 pm
by Stercutus
Halfapint wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:35 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:40 am
Halfapint wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:02 am
Shot the sub2k and well...... Unless you’re a child, or someone who has a no longer has and upper or lower jaw, you just cannot get a good sight down the optics.

The beretta was better, but I didn’t like the scope the guy had on it. Also the trigger seemed odd.
I got a good laugh the other day when a TV show my on was watching employed one as sniper rifle.
Wait..... they're not?! well shit I'm going to have to rethink my entire plan now!
Only if you are from the future and have been transplanted in to another body in order to assassinate a political leader.

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:35 pm
by RickOShea
JeeperCreeper wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:19 pm
Ideally...

If I went for something other than 9mm, I'd go with that Aero Survival thingy
What changed your mind about the TNW Aero Survival?....

JeeperCreeper wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:56 pm
RickOShea wrote: Welp, there's always the Hi-Point 10mm carbine. Or, if ya just gots to have that Glock mag, the Just Right and TNW Aero 10mm carbines. :ooh:
I don't really see the JRC or TNW offerings being as viable as other options only because they are small companies and are largely proprietary within that small company. Getting a proprietary gun from a big company like Ruger (even hi point) is more comforting for many consumers dropping some big cash. At least for a niche gun like a 10mm PCC.

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:25 pm
by JeeperCreeper
RickOShea wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:35 pm
JeeperCreeper wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:19 pm
Ideally...

If I went for something other than 9mm, I'd go with that Aero Survival thingy
What changed your mind about the TNW Aero Survival?....

JeeperCreeper wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:56 pm
RickOShea wrote: Welp, there's always the Hi-Point 10mm carbine. Or, if ya just gots to have that Glock mag, the Just Right and TNW Aero 10mm carbines. :ooh:
I don't really see the JRC or TNW offerings being as viable as other options only because they are small companies and are largely proprietary within that small company. Getting a proprietary gun from a big company like Ruger (even hi point) is more comforting for many consumers dropping some big cash. At least for a niche gun like a 10mm PCC.
I dunno.... Just been looking at them lately and I think they are cool. I still don't disagree with my old statement as a 10mm hipoint is the most responsible fiscally, but sometimes cool factor will outdo smart factor.

But yeah, I guess it depends on the day on what I'm spending my imaginary money on (I buy, sell, and trade guns like a madman so finding contradictions will be easy with me haha)

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:15 pm
by 91Eunozs
Prices on Quarter Circle 10 stuff have finally dropped enough to pique my interest...

https://www.quartercircle10.com/product ... ished.html

Been eyeing a .45ACP Kriss for years and have a fair stockpile of magazines (13 and 28+ round) for my G21 to feed it, but may wind up building a pistol on this platform instead.