HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by The Twizzler » Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:33 pm

Your argument that gunmakers today have access to better materials which should make for better guns is 100 % right. It should make for better guns, it just doesn't always. If you want a more accurate gun then pick a modern rifle.If you want a lighter gun pick a modern rifle, If you want a more durable rifle then I stand by my statement. Those old rifles were literally used like clubs in war and kept working. I suspect the same could not be said about most modern bolt action rifles. The modern rifle is just not made for it. Plastics, free floating barrels, fragile sights all mean if you swing it like a club at somebody and then try to shoot it the accuracy is gonna suffer more than the old surplus stuff. Therefore in the outback I want a surplus rifle.




Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
The Twizzler wrote:I disagree with your assertion that freefloated barrels make guns more fragile. The barrels on older milsurp rifles tend to be thin and suffer barrel whip if not tightly supported by the stock and/or barrel bands.

All the rifles I pointed out have barrels that are supported by the stock and/or barrel bands. :P



I don't know about the Australian laws. If they cant have a lever gun, that sucks. :vmad:
I know what you mean about thicker barrels compared to older firearms, but I was not concerned with the barrels breaking. The part where the barrel and the frame meet the stock is what I was concerned about. Hunting rifles are shot way more infrequently than military rifles are and I think durability was given higher priority in military rifles than pinpoint accuracy. The OP specifically said it has to be able to hit things and keep working. That makes me think hard use or use in the Outback where I would want reliability (takes a lick and keeps on kicking) over accuracy. :words:
Again, I disagree for the reasons mentioned. The materials of 1915-1950 are inferior to the materials of 2015. Example, here's a look at the bare actions:

Finnish Mosin:
Image

1917 Enfield:
Image

Image

Now, the Ruger in question:
Image

Image

Which of those looks flimsiest and least well-finished? Keeping in mind that the Ruger is a complete rip-off of the Mauser action, but with better materials and fitting, what basis do you have for saying that rifles that were mass produced to be as cheap as possible and required a series of bands and wood pressure, pressed-in barrels, and hand-fit for parts are more durable than rifles that are precision made from better materials and do not require torsion bands or an armorer to rebarrel? You specifically said: "Most modern rifles like to free float the barrels which makes them a little more fragile" which is bullshit. Freefloating a barrel does not make the gun more fragile.

There isn't an absolute continuum where you have to choose accuracy or durability. Much like a modern car can be both faster and more fuel efficient than a 1915 Rolls-Royce, a modern rifle can be as or more durable and more accurate than a rifle made in the days where smokeless powder was a novel idea.
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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:40 pm

The Twizzler wrote:Your argument that gunmakers today have access to better materials which should make for better guns is 100 % right. It should make for better guns, it just doesn't always. If you want a more accurate gun then pick a modern rifle.If you want a lighter gun pick a modern rifle, If you want a more durable rifle then I stand by my statement. Those old rifles were literally used like clubs in war and kept working. I suspect the same could not be said about most modern bolt action rifles. The modern rifle is just not made for it. Plastics, free floating barrels, fragile sights all mean if you swing it like a club at somebody and then try to shoot it the accuracy is gonna suffer more than the old surplus stuff. Therefore in the outback I want a surplus rifle.




Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
The Twizzler wrote:I disagree with your assertion that freefloated barrels make guns more fragile. The barrels on older milsurp rifles tend to be thin and suffer barrel whip if not tightly supported by the stock and/or barrel bands.

All the rifles I pointed out have barrels that are supported by the stock and/or barrel bands. [emoji14]



I don't know about the Australian laws. If they cant have a lever gun, that sucks. :vmad:
I know what you mean about thicker barrels compared to older firearms, but I was not concerned with the barrels breaking. The part where the barrel and the frame meet the stock is what I was concerned about. Hunting rifles are shot way more infrequently than military rifles are and I think durability was given higher priority in military rifles than pinpoint accuracy. The OP specifically said it has to be able to hit things and keep working. That makes me think hard use or use in the Outback where I would want reliability (takes a lick and keeps on kicking) over accuracy. :words:
Again, I disagree for the reasons mentioned. The materials of 1915-1950 are inferior to the materials of 2015. Example, here's a look at the bare actions:

Finnish Mosin:
Image

1917 Enfield:
Image

Image

Now, the Ruger in question:
Image

Image

Which of those looks flimsiest and least well-finished? Keeping in mind that the Ruger is a complete rip-off of the Mauser action, but with better materials and fitting, what basis do you have for saying that rifles that were mass produced to be as cheap as possible and required a series of bands and wood pressure, pressed-in barrels, and hand-fit for parts are more durable than rifles that are precision made from better materials and do not require torsion bands or an armorer to rebarrel? You specifically said: "Most modern rifles like to free float the barrels which makes them a little more fragile" which is bullshit. Freefloating a barrel does not make the gun more fragile.

There isn't an absolute continuum where you have to choose accuracy or durability. Much like a modern car can be both faster and more fuel efficient than a 1915 Rolls-Royce, a modern rifle can be as or more durable and more accurate than a rifle made in the days where smokeless powder was a novel idea.
If you swing it like a club then you're using it wrong. Like seriously, that's not how you use a rifle as melee weapon.

What about a free floated barrel makes it more likely to break, exactly?

Which parts on the GSR are plastic and likely to fail?

If you just want a surplus rifle, buy a surplus rifle without making up stuff about rifles being stronger or swinging it like a club.

As an aside, the Enfield would be especially weak if swung like a club as the butt stock is separate from the forend, and the neck of the stock is particularly back about breaking.
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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by The Twizzler » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:28 pm

I know that about the Enfield as I own one. I mentioned the enfield because Aus is a commonwealth country. That said I would have more faith in it than a plastic stock commonly found on modern rifles. Look, to keep it short I find wood and steel preferable for durability than plastic and composite. I own composite firearms as well and I like them, but if the world ends I have to ask myself which guns are still going to be working after hard use 10-15 years later. I think the preponderance of historical evidence follows my argument while the modern rifle's durability must be considered a question mark. The fact that you still see these guns being used today (mosins, enfields, mausers) and to go further the AK's of the world (wood and steel, and not great steel mind you) are so popular not just because they are cheap but also because they continue to work. If the Ruger scout is so much better why isn't it used by any military or police force (at least to my knowledge) while the guns I mentioned still are. It's because you need the gun to last. If you have money to burn then sure go out and buy the newest thing.

What I am trying in the end to say is, those old battle rifles are a proven entity and I don't believe enough time has passed to say the same for the rifles you mentioned.

Oh, and I would take the 1915 Rolls any day of the week, my uncle had a 1929 Rolls Phantom II he drove as a chauefuer (sp?) and it was a thing of beauty and class a modern car can't come close to.
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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by ManInBlack316 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:32 pm

The Twizzler wrote:I know that about the Enfield as I own one. I mentioned the enfield because Aus is a commonwealth country. That said I would have more faith in it than a plastic stock commonly found on modern rifles. Look, to keep it short I find wood and steel preferable for durability than plastic and composite. I own composite firearms as well and I like them, but if the world ends I have to ask myself which guns are still going to be working after hard use 10-15 years later. I think the preponderance of historical evidence follows my argument while the modern rifle's durability must be considered a question mark. The fact that you still see these guns being used today (mosins, enfields, mausers) and to go further the AK's of the world (wood and steel, and not great steel mind you) are so popular not just because they are cheap but also because they continue to work. If the Ruger scout is so much better why isn't it used by any military or police force (at least to my knowledge) while the guns I mentioned still are. It's because you need the gun to last. If you have money to burn then sure go out and buy the newest thing.

What I am trying in the end to say is, those old battle rifles are a proven entity and I don't believe enough time has passed to say the same for the rifles you mentioned.

Oh, and I would take the 1915 Rolls any day of the week, my uncle had a 1929 Rolls Phantom II he drove as a chauefuer (sp?) and it was a thing of beauty and class a modern car can't come close to.
This is stock internet photo, but that was a sweet car. You felt you owed it to the car to wear gloves while in it. It had a lever that would wash your wheels and tires as you drove. You can't even get that now.
Image
I feel like this argument is like the old timers trying to argue that all of these semi autos are inherently less reliable than a revolver, regardless of how many times a quality semi auto had been put through a torture test successfully and the revolver sits there unabused in the safe because it's considered more reliable.
Modern, quality plastics can be more durable than wood, especially wood that was slapped onto a rifle in a factory in a rush to arm the troops because krauts/commies/yankees/cowboys were coming.
Military and police forces can be very slow to adopt new and improved designs due to a number of factors; which include startup cost and bureaucracy. That being said, can you provide a list of countries that still use enfields, mosins, or mausers for combat purposes? Combat use only, not for ceremonies.
Doc wants the OP to have a usable rifle out of the box that he doesn't have to pay a gunsmith to fix to make it adequate for what we expect out of a modern rifle, I don't see anything wrong with that. Although just out of curiosity, I would like to see a torture test done on the Ruger rifle, but I cannot provide the rifle or ammo to make that happen so I have no idea what would happen.

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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by The Twizzler » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:57 pm

The UK still uses the enfield for their sniper rifle, The Indian's issue them to their border patrol units, Finland still issues their version of the Mosin to some troops, I believe the Greenland Scouts also issue enfields. The countries of the former YugoSlavia use them for their paramilitary forces, I can't name the middle eastern and african nations that use them as they don't seem to be the best at keeping records.
Put it this way if you were in the Australian Outback would you take a Ruger American Rifle or a Pre war Mauser. I would trust the Mauser.
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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by woodsghost » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:19 pm

To the OP:

I just recently found out Tikka makes the Battue and Battue Lite. It looks like they only come with a 510mm barrel, and that is perfect from my perspective. I hate 7.62x51 through a 410mm barrel. I would give that some serious consideration.

I'd also give 9.3x62 some consideration. Just because I bet that would be a bear to shoot ;)

My other favorites for consideration by the OP are the CZ 527 or the Zastava M85. I do like my 7.62x39 rifle for game in the 60-80kg range. You can find factory loads in 154 gr SP.
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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by ManInBlack316 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:32 pm

The Twizzler wrote:The UK still uses the enfield for their sniper rifle, The Indian's issue them to their border patrol units, Finland still issues their version of the Mosin to some troops, I believe the Greenland Scouts also issue enfields. The countries of the former YugoSlavia use them for their paramilitary forces, I can't name the middle eastern and african nations that use them as they don't seem to be the best at keeping records.
Put it this way if you were in the Australian Outback would you take a Ruger American Rifle or a Pre war Mauser. I would trust the Mauser.
Okay, I do stand corrected then.
I wouldn't take either, I'd prefer the GSR Doc mentioned, and I'd ditch both for my AR because I'm not a bolt action guy. But with a good scope I'd take the Ruger American over the Mauser.

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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by taipan821 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:59 pm

I must see this thread is getting interesting to read regarding old vs new.

RonnyRonin, friends use a variety to guns, mostly old .22 (1930-1960 era) and military rifles, with regards to magazine restrictions, while there isn't a restriction I want to stay away from AR mags (rules out rem 7615) and magazines >10 rounds (such as WW1 mauser magazine mods). ammunition supply is mostly imported from US, with propellant and certain calibres manafactured in australia (look up ADI powders, australian made)

Doc, while you make a valid argument, and I'll look at prices for a Ruger GS, did I say I was going to put a scope on it? why would I be asking for iron sights if they impede a scope (reason steyr scout has folding sights) and can't be used when the scope is on? I'm sticking with iron sights because the fewer points of failure, the more survivable the gun is. iron sights have 1 failure point: they can bend. scopes have at least three failure points (scope, rings, mount).

and I don't expect the accuracy of a modern rifle with the criteria I've set. I've got a good rifle (currently a rem700 in .223 with a basic scope (need to change that scope out)) which I use for longer shots, I want a rifle which I can beat around a bit and someone new can just shoot and not worry about scope settings
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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by Asymetryczna » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:45 pm

The UK began moving to the AI's a decade ago. Nothing wrong with an Enfield though.
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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by MacAttack » Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:00 am

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
MacAttack wrote:If you look at the Enfield, all that wood, other than the actual part bolted to the action, is just hanging on the barrel.

Do you really think its used to hold the barrel stiff?
They didn't know about barrel whip back then.
They just put that much wood on it out of tradition. the same reason they used short swords as bayonets.


I have one with everything removed. iron sights and all that extra lumber. Scope mounts screwed right into the action. Barrel free floated.

I can shoot 2 inch groups all day long with military ball ammo. The rifle has taken more deer than I have thats for sure.
2" at what distance?





About 110 yards braced on a fence post. More than adequate for hunting. Not bad for 200 bucks total.

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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by quazi » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:29 pm

If I was sticking to iron sights I would be happy with either a surplus rifle in decent condition or a well made modern rifle. I would be inclined to get the surplus rifle just because of the historical cool factor, but if I knew it was going to get thrashed or I thought I might ever put glass on it or I just wanted to be strictly practical I would probably go with a well made new production rifle (depending on price). Local prices and availability would make a big difference.

I don't think that seeing a lot of old milsurps up and running and mostly seeing old civilian rifles in safes is necessarily a fair comparison. There are a lot of reasons for this.

1. They made an absolute fuckton of military rifles. This is especially true for rifles used during the World Wars. You're going to see them more often because they made so many of them.

2. Because they made so many of them, they were cheap and not very collectible for quite a long time. Because many civilian-specific rifles were made in fewer numbers I would guess that they actually have had more collector value up until recently.

3. People didn't always have such high regard for milsurps. They were cheap, already dinged up and regarded as crudely made compared to civilian hunting rifles. Milsurps got purchased to be thrown in the trunks of cars, taken along in canoes and generally abused. People were more likely to take loving care of their shiny new expensive hunting rifles. That rifle could be tough as nails and more than capable of hard use, but because it had such nice bluing and wood (and cost $$$) I think the natural inclination would be to take good care of it.

4. Milsurps were frequently rebuilt and put into time capsules. A lot of military rifles were rebuilt by competent armorers, and a lot of them were also scrapped for being not worth fixing. A lot of them were also packed in grease and stored in a warehouse for a rainy day, only to be sold to collectors many decades later. So that military surplus rifle might have been built in the 1930s, used during WW2 (which could mean being constantly being drug through the mud, or it could mean resting in the corner of a tent) then it got repaired by a gunsmith after the war, maybe used for another few years before being packed in grease for long term storage for 60 years and then sold to a collector. Compare that with a civilian hunting rifle that was made in the 1960s and saw constant use by multiple generations of a rural family. Many such rifles exist, but they don't often come up for sale as they have accrued a lot of sentimental value over the last fifty years.

5. Milsurps do break. Being well made and indestructible are two very different things. Parts eventually break and need to be replaced. If an old rifle has seen a lot of hard use a brand new rifle might have more life in it even if it wasn't made as tough. Most of the civilian bolt-action rifles I've taken apart have been big chunks of steel with relatively few fidly bits. I'm not sure what would go wrong, other than a spring, firing pin or extractor breaking and that's the kind of thing that can happen to surplus rifles as well.

I'm not trying to be down on surplus rifles, I just think that there's nothing magical about them and well-made modern rifles can be just as good and are often better.

Speaking of well-made, something I'm curious about is the quality of some of the newer less expensive rifles. I'm talking about rifles like the Savage Axis and Ruger American. I've heard that they're surprisingly nice and accurate rifles for the money, and they are plenty reliable enough for the average hunter, but they aren't really rifles that can be used a lot* and handed down to your grand kids. I've also heard that if a person steps it up to the next level (Savage 11, Howa/Vanguard, etc.) they are getting a rifle that can see significant use and still be handed down. That could all be bullshit though, which is why I'm asking.
*Used "a lot" is obviously an ambiguous statement. A competitive shooter that goes through thousands of rounds a year is going to wear out well made rifles. A person that goes hunting every other year, only shoots a few rounds to make sure the rifle is sighted in and only hikes a very short distance to a blind could probably make a cheaply made rifle last his entire life.


I always assumed that the full-length wood on surplus rifles was primarily to protect people from burning themselves.

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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by The Twizzler » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:14 pm

I can find almost any caliber where I live from .17-to 50 BMG, but I have never seen anyone carrying 9.3x62 ammo. Is it popular in other regions? I would take the CZ over the Zastava if I had my druthers.

woodsghost wrote:To the OP:

I just recently found out Tikka makes the Battue and Battue Lite. It looks like they only come with a 510mm barrel, and that is perfect from my perspective. I hate 7.62x51 through a 410mm barrel. I would give that some serious consideration.

I'd also give 9.3x62 some consideration. Just because I bet that would be a bear to shoot ;)

My other favorites for consideration by the OP are the CZ 527 or the Zastava M85. I do like my 7.62x39 rifle for game in the 60-80kg range. You can find factory loads in 154 gr SP.
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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by The Twizzler » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:18 pm

Quazi, I think we have come to a reasonable common ground. I'll admit I have some bias for the old stuff. I think they can compete just fine today, have their own positives, and can surprise a fellow with the newest shiniest tech wonder.
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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by The Twizzler » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:37 pm

You know one thing no one brought up was a drilling. They aren't popular in the US as you can have basically whatever you want and as many as you want. They are popular in some European Countries even ones with stricter gun laws. Usually it will be one barrel with a shotgun barrel on top of a rifled barrel although there are many variants. So maybe 12 gauge on top and .223 on the bottom. Would this still count as one gun in Austrailia?
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Chiappa M6X caliber -over/under 12 gauge/22 Magnum
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taipan821 wrote:I must see this thread is getting interesting to read regarding old vs new.

RonnyRonin, friends use a variety to guns, mostly old .22 (1930-1960 era) and military rifles, with regards to magazine restrictions, while there isn't a restriction I want to stay away from AR mags (rules out rem 7615) and magazines >10 rounds (such as WW1 mauser magazine mods). ammunition supply is mostly imported from US, with propellant and certain calibres manafactured in australia (look up ADI powders, australian made)

Doc, while you make a valid argument, and I'll look at prices for a Ruger GS, did I say I was going to put a scope on it? why would I be asking for iron sights if they impede a scope (reason steyr scout has folding sights) and can't be used when the scope is on? I'm sticking with iron sights because the fewer points of failure, the more survivable the gun is. iron sights have 1 failure point: they can bend. scopes have at least three failure points (scope, rings, mount).

and I don't expect the accuracy of a modern rifle with the criteria I've set. I've got a good rifle (currently a rem700 in .223 with a basic scope (need to change that scope out)) which I use for longer shots, I want a rifle which I can beat around a bit and someone new can just shoot and not worry about scope settings
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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by The Twizzler » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:52 pm

One more idea that's not a bolt action. You mentioned a lot of ranges are single shot only. Why not a Ruger #1 . They have the best aspects of both old and new. It's a falling Block Action which is basically indestuctible (like Superman would have a problem breaking it) strong. As far as I know it's the strongest action available in a non 50 caliber and above shoulder fired rifle.
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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:19 pm

The Twizzler wrote:I can find almost any caliber where I live from .17-to 50 BMG, but I have never seen anyone carrying 9.3x62 ammo. Is it popular in other regions? I would take the CZ over the Zastava if I had my druthers.

woodsghost wrote:To the OP:

I just recently found out Tikka makes the Battue and Battue Lite. It looks like they only come with a 510mm barrel, and that is perfect from my perspective. I hate 7.62x51 through a 410mm barrel. I would give that some serious consideration.

I'd also give 9.3x62 some consideration. Just because I bet that would be a bear to shoot ;)

My other favorites for consideration by the OP are the CZ 527 or the Zastava M85. I do like my 7.62x39 rifle for game in the 60-80kg range. You can find factory loads in 154 gr SP.
I've only seen a single box of 9.3x62 ammo here in the states and that was almost 10 years ago.

From what little I know of the round, it's pretty popular in Europe. It's sort of like the European .30-06.

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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by quazi » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:25 pm

A friend of the family has a 9.3x62 rifle. I don't know where he gets the ammo for it, he's not much of a gun guy. Maybe he bought a bunch with the rifle and still hasn't shot it all yet? Sometimes he calls it a 8mm, which it isn't and I've pointed it out to him before. If he ever does buy new ammo for it I hope he doesn't blow himself up. :ohdear:

A different friend of the family had three Ruger No. 1 rifles in .375 H&H. They were really fun to shoot. I like single shot rifles a lot.

The OP mentioned wanting something fed by detachable magazines or clips, so I don't think a single shot is what he's looking for.

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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by Asymetryczna » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:11 pm

Some of it was to act as a barrier between flesh and hot metal. If you walk the dog back there are two types of weapons: shock and missile. A club is used to strike; a missile is used as a launched strike. Increase the efficiency of both and you have a spear. Work faster and smarter and end the retrieve but require much less skill with the rifle. Multiply this by ten thousand and you have an aircraft carrier. Then, N factorial takes you to the atomic submarine, which can lie dormant until the war is thought to be conclusively over and then strike you 180 more times. The moral of the story is that I do not know the limiting conditions that you have (AUS) to work with but I hope you find one you desire and that availability of ammunition and durability are key factors. Whatever you choose, the rifle that matters is the one that you own and are comfortable with when you need it.
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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by woodsghost » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:28 pm

12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:
The Twizzler wrote:I can find almost any caliber where I live from .17-to 50 BMG, but I have never seen anyone carrying 9.3x62 ammo. Is it popular in other regions? I would take the CZ over the Zastava if I had my druthers.

woodsghost wrote:To the OP:

I just recently found out Tikka makes the Battue and Battue Lite. It looks like they only come with a 510mm barrel, and that is perfect from my perspective. I hate 7.62x51 through a 410mm barrel. I would give that some serious consideration.

I'd also give 9.3x62 some consideration. Just because I bet that would be a bear to shoot ;)

My other favorites for consideration by the OP are the CZ 527 or the Zastava M85. I do like my 7.62x39 rifle for game in the 60-80kg range. You can find factory loads in 154 gr SP.
I've only seen a single box of 9.3x62 ammo here in the states and that was almost 10 years ago.

From what little I know of the round, it's pretty popular in Europe. It's sort of like the European .30-06.
Apparently popular in Europe and Africa.

AmmoSeek can find the round for you: http://ammoseek.com/ammo/9.3x62mm

PPU seems to be the primary maker. Some US and other European makers load the round.

I recommend it not because it is "the best" but because I think it would be a neat round to shoot, and will do the job on all African, European, and North American game (except elephants, I suspect). I don't think those Australian hogs would stand a chance. I was mostly joking around but now I"m seriously wanting a rifle in that caliber.

From a prepping perspective in Australia, I suspect 7.62x51 would be very suitable.
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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by woodsghost » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:40 pm

Just got to thinking. Dense scrub and hogs in the 60-80kg range. Have you considered a shotgun? Just food for thought.
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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by taipan821 » Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:19 pm

woodsghost wrote:Just got to thinking. Dense scrub and hogs in the 60-80kg range. Have you considered a shotgun? Just food for thought.
yes, I would love to own a 12G coach gun, so useful, but the paperwork is different...thus its more of a distant purchase
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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by velojym » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:31 pm

My first thought when I started into this thread was the obvious levergun solution. But... if you can't use one and/or still want something different, you're still looking for something quick into action (Aussie beasties are pretty famous for having pointy and/or poisonous bits) and common in the area between ammo and spare parts.
Seems like a variant of the Enfield is as good as it gets, provided you find one in good shape. Stripper clip reloadable, and fast into action, fast follow-up shots... many Germans in WW2 thought they were up against semiautos, when their opponents were armed with the ol' reliable Enny.
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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by The Twizzler » Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:24 pm

Well.... Taipan what did you go with? I assume you have made a decision by now. Drum roll please...........
"Oh Bother!" said Pooh, as he drew his dagger...

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Re: HELP: advice on bolt action carbines/scout rifles

Post by The Twizzler » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:28 pm

Ok, I have it. You need a bolt action, with a shorter barrel, holds less than 10 rounds, and is powerful enough for hogs and crocodiles in Australia.
I give you The Barret Model 95. it's bolt action , holds 5 rounds, you can get it with iron sights, and since it's a bullpup it's pretty short. Gander Mountain has them on sale for 7299.00 and they do ship. It comes in 50 BMG and 416 Barrett
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50 BMG compared to 7.62x39
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"Oh Bother!" said Pooh, as he drew his dagger...

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