Talk me out of it

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Talk me out of it

Post by phydaux » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:26 pm

I'm trying to find a decent reason to NOT buy a 12 gauge Remington 870 Express Synthetic Tactical from Bud's Gun Shop for $348.

This gun would live it's life next to my bad in the place currently occupied by my 1911 pistol and function as my primary home defense weapon, with occasional trips to a 3-gun or zombie shoot.

It there a single decent reason to NOT buy this gun, or buy a different shotgun?

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quazi
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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by quazi » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:35 pm

There's been a lot of grumbling about Remington quality control since they were bought out in 2007 and especially with them moving some of their production to Alabama in 2014.

I don't know if any of the QC issues ever effected the 870 (I think that one is still made in NY, right?) and if they did if those issues have been resolved. I think the whole "Remington sucks now" meme has such momentum that a lot of people will probably believe it for a long time even if Remington did/does resolve their QC problems.

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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by southalabama » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:09 pm

Good gun for the money.

I have a pair.

But I'd recommend looking for a YouTube video on how to fine tune the action. Polish down some of the tooling marks in the chamber.

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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by emclean » Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:20 am

Talk you out of? we don't do that around here, we prefer to live vicariously through your wallet.

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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by phydaux » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:45 am

emclean wrote:Talk you out of? we don't do that around here, we prefer to live vicariously through your wallet.
lol. I want to get into skeet/trap/sporting clays. I will be getting a little extra cash soon, so I'm going to treat myself to a Beretta a300. Now, my wife has always wanted a pump shotgun to keep next to the bed at night. I was thinking of choosing the synthetic stock A300 for myself, rather than the wood that I actually want, and using the savings to put toward the 870 "for my wife."

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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by Zembecowicz » Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:49 am

I've had an 870 Express Synthetic since 2005 or so (I don't think they made the tactical yet then). I have no idea how many shells I've had through it, but I'm yet to have a problem. It isn't the prettiest gun in the world, but it goes "boom" when it is supposed to.

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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by Murph » Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:51 am

You can buy a lot of food & water for the cost of that 870 + ammo + accessories
Does your BOB at least have: water, basic tools, fire, food, first-aid kit, and shelter?
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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by Stercutus » Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:26 pm

There's been a lot of grumbling about Remington quality control since they were bought out in 2007 and especially with them moving some of their production to Alabama in 2014.
Got some links? or is it just talk?

You can get a Stevens pump for $168 if you want a cheap shotgun. They are a step above HiPoint.
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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by quazi » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:21 pm

Stercutus wrote:Got some links? or is it just talk?
You know, I keep thinking "I got to go find some links for Stercutus" followed quickly by [whiny voice]"But I don't wannaaaaa. That's booooorinnnng."[/whiny voice].

Honestly most of what I've heard has been from podcasters and bloggers/vloggers, and a good bit on forums as well. All of that counts as talk, since it's based on anecdotal experience and people repeating what they've heard*. I don't know that there has been any real high round count tests involving multiple samples, as that would be really expensive.

I think that some of the complaints revolve around new product launches (R51), taking over production of other products (Remlins) and recalls (700 trigger). I'll try to dig up some links. I'm not writing of Remington like some people have been, since I remember a few years ago when Ruger had to recall most new firearms they put out but now they seem to have most of that worked out.

*I guess I also am just repeating what I've heard. Hopefully I was clear enough in my original post that I was just repeating things and that some of what was being said was just talk, and that I wasn't stating things as absolute fact. In my defense, he asked to be talked out of an 870, so I passed along the only reason I could think of.

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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by Stercutus » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:29 pm

*I guess I also am just repeating what I've heard. Hopefully I was clear enough in my original post that I was just repeating things and that some of what was being said was just talk, and that I wasn't stating things as absolute fact. In my defense, he asked to be talked out of an 870, so I passed along the only reason I could think of.
I am not trying to give you a hard time I was just curious about some hard data. I have an 870 for a duty weapon and mechanically it has performed flawlessly. If there is a problem other than "Remingtons suck buy XXX instead" I'd be interested in seeing it.
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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:59 pm

Stercutus wrote:
*I guess I also am just repeating what I've heard. Hopefully I was clear enough in my original post that I was just repeating things and that some of what was being said was just talk, and that I wasn't stating things as absolute fact. In my defense, he asked to be talked out of an 870, so I passed along the only reason I could think of.
I am not trying to give you a hard time I was just curious about some hard data. I have an 870 for a duty weapon and mechanically it has performed flawlessly. If there is a problem other than "Remingtons suck buy XXX instead" I'd be interested in seeing it.
When was yours manufactured? The very real issues with Remington and Marlin started when they were bought by Freedom Group (along with Bushmaster, Marlin, and AAC) and resulted in well-documented issues like guns being shipped rusty or finish rusting out in the store, actions that were known to be of good quality (Marlin) being churned out with rough tooling, chatter marks, and wonky bore sizing. Several well-rated smiths, like Ranger Point Precision won't even touch Freedom Group Marlin lever actions.
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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by quazi » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:07 pm

Stercutus wrote:I am not trying to give you a hard time I was just curious about some hard data. I have an 870 for a duty weapon and mechanically it has performed flawlessly. If there is a problem other than "Remingtons suck buy XXX instead" I'd be interested in seeing it.
I didn't figure you were giving me a hard time, I just felt embarrassed that I repeated something without having sources that I could quickly pull up.

This reminds me that I need to check if my 700 was part of the recall. I'm pretty sure it was made in that time period.

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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by Slugg » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:47 pm

I bought my Hatsan Escort for around $150 New in box and everyone I know with an 870 wishes they bought mine instead. They say it performs the same for half the price.
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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by Stercutus » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:50 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
*I guess I also am just repeating what I've heard. Hopefully I was clear enough in my original post that I was just repeating things and that some of what was being said was just talk, and that I wasn't stating things as absolute fact. In my defense, he asked to be talked out of an 870, so I passed along the only reason I could think of.
I am not trying to give you a hard time I was just curious about some hard data. I have an 870 for a duty weapon and mechanically it has performed flawlessly. If there is a problem other than "Remingtons suck buy XXX instead" I'd be interested in seeing it.
When was yours manufactured? The very real issues with Remington and Marlin started when they were bought by Freedom Group (along with Bushmaster, Marlin, and AAC) and resulted in well-documented issues like guns being shipped rusty or finish rusting out in the store, actions that were known to be of good quality (Marlin) being churned out with rough tooling, chatter marks, and wonky bore sizing. Several well-rated smiths, like Ranger Point Precision won't even touch Freedom Group Marlin lever actions.
Not sure TBH. I guess I could look up the Ser#, But I know it isn't more than ten years old though so I'd say it is pretty safe bet to say it was made under Freedom Group. I looked on Ranger Point Precision website they have pictures of Freedom Group rifles they do specialty work on. Could not find anything saying they don't.

:?
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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by flybynight » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:54 pm

Not trying to talk you out of it, but I've been thinking of adding one of these to my collection as a truck gun. It's not too hard to find them for under 200 bucks

http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/top-sel ... model-982/

just food for thought.
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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by Tobias05 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:05 pm

I have both a 7 round tactical (25077) and express bird/deer combo (25578) here at the house.

The tactical runs fine on 00 buck and slugs, but chokes on cheap wbb. Newer 870s choking on wbb is well documented online.

The 6 round magazine tube also prevents barrel swaps, as this model has a proprietary barrel that only fits the 6 rd tube.

I have polished the chamber, filed down some rough machining edges, swapped the dog carrier spring, and installed a volquartsen extractor on the 25077. Since these upgrades I have ran about 3 boxes of wbb through it without a hiccup.

My express combo has also received the police model dog carrier spring and volquartsen extractor.

Comparing my brother's tactical to my combo it would seem that the combo has a noticeable fit and finish quality to it that the tactical lacks. I have not shot nearly as many shells through the combo as opposed to the tactical, but it has yet to choke on wbb when shooting trap or sporting clays.

...FWIW, my buddy is a huge Remington shotgun fan and recommended purchasing an old wingmaster when i was still shopping for mine.

I would have no qualms with buying the 18" barrel and using my combo for HD purposes, even if it did only hold 4+1 compared to the tactical's 6+1.

TLDR: Buy an old wingmaster.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:15 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
*I guess I also am just repeating what I've heard. Hopefully I was clear enough in my original post that I was just repeating things and that some of what was being said was just talk, and that I wasn't stating things as absolute fact. In my defense, he asked to be talked out of an 870, so I passed along the only reason I could think of.
I am not trying to give you a hard time I was just curious about some hard data. I have an 870 for a duty weapon and mechanically it has performed flawlessly. If there is a problem other than "Remingtons suck buy XXX instead" I'd be interested in seeing it.
When was yours manufactured? The very real issues with Remington and Marlin started when they were bought by Freedom Group (along with Bushmaster, Marlin, and AAC) and resulted in well-documented issues like guns being shipped rusty or finish rusting out in the store, actions that were known to be of good quality (Marlin) being churned out with rough tooling, chatter marks, and wonky bore sizing. Several well-rated smiths, like Ranger Point Precision won't even touch Freedom Group Marlin lever actions.
Not sure TBH. I guess I could look up the Ser#, But I know it isn't more than ten years old though so I'd say it is pretty safe bet to say it was made under Freedom Group. I looked on Ranger Point Precision website they have pictures of Freedom Group rifles they do specialty work on. Could not find anything saying they don't.

:?
You didn't look very hard as their shortstroke conversion page specifically mentions avoiding the 91-prefix guns, from the Freedom Group takeover, right up until they started hiring back the machinist who knew what they were doing.
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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by Stercutus » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:19 pm

Ah, so they are back in the game then?
These days of dust
Which we've known
Will blow away with this new Son

But I'll kneel down wait for now
And I'll kneel down
Know my ground

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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by The Twizzler » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:27 pm

Ok, I had a bad experience with the the 870 Express. I bought one new around 7 years ago and it sucked. Failed to extract the shell most of the time. So there I would be out in the field and have to find a stick to push the fired round out from the front. It was not the extractor either. The only thing I could figure was the chamber was to tight and those plastic shells just wedged themselves in there. I had heard so many great things about the gun that's why I bought it. I was new to firearms and everybody said that was the one to get. I should have gotten a Mossberg or Winchester. If you find an older 870 I hear they are much better.
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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by FreuderLocks » Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:25 am

phydaux wrote:I'm trying to find a decent reason to NOT buy a 12 gauge Remington 870 Express Synthetic Tactical from Bud's Gun Shop for $348.

This gun would live it's life next to my bad in the place currently occupied by my 1911 pistol and function as my primary home defense weapon, with occasional trips to a 3-gun or zombie shoot.

It there a single decent reason to NOT buy this gun, or buy a different shotgun?
It's a great gun, I sell a few a week, usually for more than that. Awesome price as well. There's tons of accessories out there as well. Another high quality, less expensive shotty is the weatherby pa08 TR , for about $350, chrome lined barrel and chamber, which is what I have.

I can't talk you out of it lol, but I can make other suggestions.

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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:04 am

Stercutus wrote:Ah, so they are back in the game then?
Remington guns are still showing up rusty, failing to feed, and the budget rifles have a habit of having mags fall out and bolt handles break. The Marlins are still rough, but bores appear to be consistent.

Frankly there's no reason to buy a new Remington today, when a Savage or Mossberg is a better gun for the same price or cheaper.
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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by JeeperCreeper » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:08 am

I agree with Dr. Fab. It's a pump shotty, go cheap on an import. Or if you want options for barrels and gear, go Mossberg or Savage. I love both of mine.

Only issues with shotguns I've ever seen were Remington 870s.

And I don't think all the extractor (dual or single) or slide bar (dual or single) really matter for most people that you hear about in pump gun designs. Go cheap and simple.
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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by The Twizzler » Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:51 pm

I second this. I would add don't buy a cheap import copy of the 870. I went that route cause I really wanted a pump shotgun. Guess what? Same problem. Now I won't even look at pump actions :gonk: . I own a single shot and a side by side and that's fine with me.
JeeperCreeper wrote:I agree with Dr. Fab. It's a pump shotty, go cheap on an import. Or if you want options for barrels and gear, go Mossberg or Savage. I love both of mine.

Only issues with shotguns I've ever seen were Remington 870s.

And I don't think all the extractor (dual or single) or slide bar (dual or single) really matter for most people that you hear about in pump gun designs. Go cheap and simple.
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Re: Talk me out of it

Post by flybynight » Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:40 pm

The Twizzler wrote:I second this. I would add don't buy a cheap import copy of the 870. I went that route cause I really wanted a pump shotgun. Guess what? Same problem. Now I won't even look at pump actions :gonk: . I own a single shot and a side by side and that's fine with me.
JeeperCreeper wrote:I agree with Dr. Fab. It's a pump shotty, go cheap on an import. Or if you want options for barrels and gear, go Mossberg or Savage. I love both of mine.

Only issues with shotguns I've ever seen were Remington 870s.

And I don't think all the extractor (dual or single) or slide bar (dual or single) really matter for most people that you hear about in pump gun designs. Go cheap and simple.
Seems kinda odd you would have two shotguns from different manufactures that both had the same extraction problem.

I once owned a Mossberg 500 that would either not feed, double feed or just dump all the shells at once. But that was a known problem of 500's and easily fixed with a new cartridge stop and cartridge interrupter
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