What's the current hotness in securing an AR at the ready?

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williaty
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What's the current hotness in securing an AR at the ready?

Post by williaty » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:38 am

So, to keep a pistol ready for quick access but locked away from everyone that's not me, I have a thick steel lockbox with a Simplex lock on it. Now, I find myself in need to keeping an AR ready in the same way. I need something I can (probably) bolt to the wall near the door that would be secure against a smash-n-grab robbery (though not necessarily against someone willing to take the time to use a 3' crowbar or angle grinder) yet allows me to quickly remove the gun, use it for a few minutes, and put it back.

I've seen the AR-version of the Shotlock, which seems close to what I want, but I figure you guys probably know which one works best. AR is a 16" barrel midlength, quadrail, flat top, with Aimpoint on top, if that matters for fitment.


Backstory to this is that we now have coywolves in the area. Called DNR to ask about the thing I saw in my yard in broad daylight, lady on the phone directed me to look at some pictures on their website. Told me I'd seen a coywolf, which I'd never heard of before. Told me the portions of the department who are issued firearms have been given a shoot on sight order due to the fact that they're killing a lot of cattle and sheep, as well as the occasional horse, and have turned on the farmers if they go out in the night to run them off like normal coyotes. Said that they couldn't actually advise me to carry a gun or to shoot the animals, but wanted me to know that they're considered a nuisance animal and there's no bag limit or season. So, we're now going to be carrying an AR (because that's our only rifle other than a 10/22) to do things like take the trash out at night or walk to the barn if the sun's not up.

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Re: What's the current hotness in securing an AR at the read

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:45 am

I'd think "hiding" it would do best. They make those covert gun cabinets now that you can mount between the studs in your wall and the door has a mirror on it so it looks like any old full length bedroom mirror. There are a few other "covert" storage options that do better as most safes/cabinets are kinda easy to bust into.

Or even having a basic gun lock and tucking it somewhere in the house like an overhang above the closet door or a gap behind your headboard of your bed. I dunno, I'm not sure what the interior of your house is, I only spy on other forum members....
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procyon
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Re: What's the current hotness in securing an AR at the read

Post by procyon » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:50 am

You want my opinion - forget the expensive gun box for the AR unless you really want one.
Get a decent shotgun and load it with BB's/4 buck. A 20 ga if you think your wife would like that better than a 12 ga. Stick a light on it.
Shooting a running canine in the dark is a really, really, really tough proposition. I don't care what sights and set up you have, using them while trying to keep track of a dark object moving fast in the dark and judging your lead while trying to keep track of what is beyond your target for a couple hundred yards - forget it.
Swinging a shotgun barrel in front of the running critter will be way easier and the BB/4 buck won't be very dangerous past 100 yards.
The coy-cross isn't going to be shooting back. And you won't have time to empty a 30 round clip on it before it is gone. If it tries to charge the shotgun will have more than enough power to put it down. If it runs away you will have lots of pellets out there and the goal is for it to die. It doesn't have to lie down right there for that to happen. A couple pellets out of the 70 BB's will do that.
This isn't HD/SD against an armed intruder. It is killing a pest animal. You don't need an AR to engage it. You just need to get lead into an animal that is going to give you very little chance to do that before it is gone.

ETA - and even if it somehow survives having a couple pellets punching holes in it - it will NEVER come back to where it was shot.
My general rule at home is that if I need to kill a critter and it is daylight - I will get a rifle if I have time. If it is night, I take the shotgun.
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williaty
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Re: What's the current hotness in securing an AR at the read

Post by williaty » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:56 am

Compare cost of a shotgun my wife will use vs the cost of a locker for her AR. That's what it really comes down to. I don't think either of us will try to make a night shot unless we're in the process of being attacked.

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procyon
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Re: What's the current hotness in securing an AR at the read

Post by procyon » Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:39 am

williaty wrote:Compare cost of a shotgun my wife will use vs the cost of a locker for her AR.
That's what it would boil down to for me. I can't look up anything weapon related as the hospital web filter will shut it down, so the weapon locker is beyond my ability to even snoop at.
Your wife would probably appreciate a semi auto if you go the shotgun route as they have less recoil. You also don't have to worry about loading the next shell.
williaty wrote:I don't think either of us will try to make a night shot unless we're in the process of being attacked.
I'm a little more proactive, but I also own a fair amount of livestock. So making sure the critter never bothers my animals/pets/family again is a big issue for me.
That, and my youngest girl is still in the size range that dogs consider as prey - so I get a bit protective...
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Re: What's the current hotness in securing an AR at the read

Post by Snyper708 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:37 am

williaty wrote:
I don't think either of us will try to make a night shot unless we're in the process of being attacked.
Animals act differently in the dark, and may not run immediately if you're quiet

They will often freeze if you shine a bright light in their eyes, giving you a few seconds to get off a shot.

I'd not want a shotgun that is going to limit my range, and be useless if the varmint is among your livestock

Since they are nuisance animals with no seasons nor limits, baiting would be legal to lure them to a spot where you could light them up and shoot from a window

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procyon
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Re: What's the current hotness in securing an AR at the read

Post by procyon » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:29 am

Snyper708 wrote:I'd not want a shotgun that is going to limit my range, and be useless if the varmint is among your livestock
So far a shotgun hasn't been a hinderance in that respect for me.
If the varmint is close enough to my livestock that I think I will hit my animal - it's because the varmint has my animal in it's jaws. I've never had any of my livestock just sit there with a predator standing beside them. If they were - it's because they didn't realize it was there. Which begs the question of - how do I know it is there either until one of my animals lets me know.
For the most part the range issue isn't an issue in the dark. During the day it can be important. But at night (even with a light) - I generally can't positively identify a predator farther than what the shotgun can reach. Picking out a coyote with your WML at 50+ yards in a pasture is far from an easy task. And age is making it even less likely I will see them out farther than what I can shoot.

But during the day, I tend to take a rifle if I think something is in the pastures.
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Re: What's the current hotness in securing an AR at the read

Post by Mikeyboy » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:10 pm

Ditto to what everyone is saying about getting a cheap shotgun. I don't know how much land you have or how close your neighbors are but .223/5.56 out of an AR has a habit of traveling pretty far. Also while a "well placed" .223 is used when hunting a coyote or a coywolf, shooting at them when you are out taking out the trash at night, with a 30 round AR-15 while they are attacking, and by "they" I mean they do run sometimes in small packs and when they take out deer or other animals they do circle and attack from different direction (check Youtube videos). I don't know but for me it just sounds hard to do, shooting in the dark and killing 2 or 3 fast moving Siberian Husky sized animals. It may lead to some "panic bullet spraying" which can be an accident waiting to happen.

A shotgun would be a better tool using say #4 buckshot because its made it hit moving targets, you will have no problem immediately stopping an attacking coywolf with one hit, and unlike a 5.56 round, shotgun pellet lose a lot of steam beyond 100 yards. 20 Gauge may be best if your worried about 12 gauge recoil if your wife is going to use it. Best of all you can get a decent "self defense" shotgun new for cheap. The Self defense pump shotgun will have a shorter barrel (18" to 20") and with a 5 to 8 shot capacity would do the job you require just fine. You can get a good Maverick 88 (budget Mossberg both in 12 and 20 gauge), a H&R Pardner (pretty decent Chinese Remington 870 copy 12 Gauge only) or Stevens 320 (decent Chinese hybrid of a Remington 870, Winchester 1300 & a Benelli Nova- comes in both 12 and 20 gauge) for under $225. A nice used Remington, Mossberg, or Winchester shotgun will cost the same or even less.

williaty
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Re: What's the current hotness in securing an AR at the read

Post by williaty » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:24 pm

I disagree with both your main points.

Any buckshot still has a lot of downrange danger to anyone in the way. People consistently underestimate the range and penetrating power of buckshot. There's numerous videos of people shooting through surprising things a surprisingly long way away with various sizes of buckshot. The smallest grades of birdshot I might be inclined to agree with you, but the fundamental problem is that I'd have to use shot with enough energy in each ball to penetrate an animal and that de facto means we're talking about enough energy to hurt someone a fair distance away.

At the ranges we're talking about, the expansion pattern of the shotgun will be so small as to provide no meaningful increase in tolerable error compared to a rifle. Not to mention that, even if it expanded to the size of a turkey platter, I'm still responsible for the results of the half of the pattern that didn't hit the wolf.

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Re: What's the current hotness in securing an AR at the read

Post by Paladin1 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:21 am

procyon wrote: And you won't have time to empty a 30 round clip on it before it is gone. If it tries to charge the shotgun will have more than enough power to put it .
You said 'Clip'

I'm telling! :lol:
WWSD?

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procyon
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Re: What's the current hotness in securing an AR at the read

Post by procyon » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:02 pm

Ugh. I humbly await my thrashing...

Most coyotes and coy-crosses I have killed run between 30-40 pounds. Never seen one that was over 70. And over the years I have killed at least a dozen with a .410 loaded with 1/2 oz of BB's while squirrel hunting. They just aren't so big that you need LOTS of penetration.

If I didn't have neighbors inside 100+ yds, I would use the 4 buck (as it will also deal with two legged problems at short range). If I was worried about closer neighbors, I would opt for BB's/#2 birdshot. If you only plan to shoot at shorter ranges, those sizes will be deadly to a coyote. And at 70 yards, BB's will probably break your neighbors windows and mess up their siding, but it won't be dangerous to someone inside (trust me, the boys have shot the cattle shed SEVERAL times at that range over the years...).

And I would seriously question the 'accuracy' on moving targets in the shotgun vs rifle issue. I still need to type up the results on our rifle tests at 10 yards over in the zombie combat section - but particularly when it concerns folks who don't expend 1000's of round a year - the shotguns have shown a significant advantage over even the best rifle results (which was a SA with a red dot).

With low to mid experience shooters the shotguns in our tests have around a 65%+ successful engagement rate on small moving objects at 10 yards. The rifles' best engagement rate was barely 1/4th this number (about 18%) in shooters with the same level of experience at 10 yards. And this was during daylight. I am afraid shooting at night will drive both numbers down. But if both are cut in half - that still gives shotguns a healthy edge.

So if the AR case is cheaper, make sure the rifle has a red dot/WML and stay in practice with it. If the shotgun with a WML is cheaper, get it and a box of #2's/BB's or #4 buck and get a bit of practice with it (but you can practice with cheap target loads).

And good luck.
... I will show you fear in a handful of dust...

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Re: What's the current hotness in securing an AR at the read

Post by thrillbilly » Wed May 13, 2015 3:53 am

The hotness I use to secure my AR is the nice corner my dresser and wall creates. The AR leans there quite nicely.
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Re: What's the current hotness in securing an AR at the read

Post by mr_slappy75 » Wed May 13, 2015 8:50 am

Not hot, nor new, nor "OMFG that is so Tactixy!!" but, I'mma just gonna leave this here:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/ ... t?a=593357

Either make it up to look like a utility panel / old school fuse box or if the Missus is going to grief you about wrecking the look of the living room, hang a 'purty picture or full length mirror in front of it, so now it will take you 3 minutes instead of 1 to get your AR out of the box.

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