Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Neptune Glory » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:16 am

crypto wrote:Just posting in here to say that my HD weapon is a suppressed 5.56 with a light on it.

I like the power of a rifle for its terminal effects vs a pistol, I like having a sling on it in case I get in a shoving match, and I like the fact that 5.56 over-penetrates less than most pistols.
I like this idea a lot, but in my case, I don't keep a long gun in the bedroom because my spouse objects. I use my 9mm Glock 19 and have a factory 33rd mag in the little safe next to my bed as the reload.

Eventually, I'd like to pay the tax and obtain a suppressor for it... one thing at a time.

This is why I'm not terribly worried about not owning a .223 caliber / 5.56mm rifle. I have a .22lr for outdoor use... a .308 should take care of anything four-legged that a .22lr wouldn't. (And of course, there's my 9mm EDC pistols for self defense from two-legged aggressors.)
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Jackdaw » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:25 pm

I live in suburbia and don't hunt. My HD weapons are pistols. But I do own rifles that are fun to shoot and I think would be important to have in a SHTF situation. A shotgun, semi 22, 300 savage and M1. I don't really expect a horde to invade my cul-de-sac but if they do my M1 should be able to handle any situation like that. And it can make a great hunting rifle. The only drawback to the 300 savage is easy availability of ammo but that's a matter of stockpiling.

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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Black Beard » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:07 am

For suburban pest control and informal target practicce in your garden (subject to local laws) an air rifle is hard to beat. The pellets are cheap. They are easy to stop with just a paving slab if you are target shooting. Your neighbours will object less than a .22lr. Air rifles are relatively expensive to buy but cheap to run so they should pay for themselves within the first 5000 shots compared to .22lr. A normal air gun would be useless for self defence but that is not what they are designed for.

In a situation where you can't get to the range, having an air rifle will let you continue shooting as it is cheap to lay away thousands of pellets.

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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by The Twizzler » Tue May 05, 2015 6:33 pm

I always thought if something happened at the zoo or one of the locally owned exotic animals got out or was released there might be a need for a rifle. Open the door and bam! Tony the Tiger is there. This actually happened once in Ohio. A guy who was getting divorced and owned several tigers, wolves, and bears let them all out and then shot himself.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Hollis » Tue May 05, 2015 6:48 pm

Hunting is a small part of the shooting world. Practice shooting, competition shooting, etc takes up most of the sport. So who not own a rifle in Suburbia. Contrary to popular thought, most guns never kill anything. Probably over 99.9+% of the rounds fired in the US never kills anything.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by gun toting monkeyboy » Tue May 05, 2015 7:50 pm

Okay, first, a "battle rifle" requires a full-powered rifle cartridge. ARs and AKs aren't "battle rifles". They are usually considered to be "assault rifles", even though they lack the full auto capability, because they use intermediate cartridges. Don't go calling them "battle rifles" just because it sounds cool.

Second, hunting during a SHTF situation will be a joke. Most places don't have that much game that you can hunt effectively with a centerfire rifle cartridge. They just don't. And those that do will quickly be depleted by every yahoo who is trying to live out his EOTWAWKI fantasy. A .22 rifle would serve you much better when it comes to hunting food. Simply because there are a lot more rabbits and squirrels than there are deer.

As for weapons in emergencies, a lot depends on the type of emergency. We have had to evacuate nearly a half dozen times due to wildfires. At this point, I generally grab a handgun and an extra magazine, and call it good. Why? Because if we have to go to a shelter, a handgun in the back of my waistband is less conspicuous than an AK slung over my shoulder. If we are sheltering in place, on the other hand, I want a rifle. Pure and simple. Mainly because I can hit with them better. But also because I can use them out farther than I can with a pistol or shotgun. I am not planning on hunting zombies out to 1000 yards. But I may have to hit something out to 150 yards, depending on the situation. And a rifle is generally much more visible to zombies and goblins. That visibility may be as much of a deterrent as anything else I could do. And finally, let us not forget that every able-bodied male between the ages of 17 and 45 is part of the reserve militia. In the highly unlikely event you get called up, you would need to bring your own rifle and gear. You may as well have something you are familiar with. ;)

-Mb

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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Tue May 05, 2015 7:58 pm

gun toting monkeyboy wrote:Okay, first, a "battle rifle" requires a full-powered rifle cartridge. ARs and AKs aren't "battle rifles". They are usually considered to be "assault rifles", even though they lack the full auto capability, because they use intermediate cartridges. Don't go calling them "battle rifles" just because it sounds cool.

Second, hunting during a SHTF situation will be a joke. Most places don't have that much game that you can hunt effectively with a centerfire rifle cartridge. They just don't. And those that do will quickly be depleted by every yahoo who is trying to live out his EOTWAWKI fantasy. A .22 rifle would serve you much better when it comes to hunting food. Simply because there are a lot more rabbits and squirrels than there are deer.

As for weapons in emergencies, a lot depends on the type of emergency. We have had to evacuate nearly a half dozen times due to wildfires. At this point, I generally grab a handgun and an extra magazine, and call it good. Why? Because if we have to go to a shelter, a handgun in the back of my waistband is less conspicuous than an AK slung over my shoulder. If we are sheltering in place, on the other hand, I want a rifle. Pure and simple. Mainly because I can hit with them better. But also because I can use them out farther than I can with a pistol or shotgun. I am not planning on hunting zombies out to 1000 yards. But I may have to hit something out to 150 yards, depending on the situation. And a rifle is generally much more visible to zombies and goblins. That visibility may be as much of a deterrent as anything else I could do. And finally, let us not forget that every able-bodied male between the ages of 17 and 45 is part of the reserve militia. In the highly unlikely event you get called up, you would need to bring your own rifle and gear. You may as well have something you are familiar with. ;)

-Mb
My battle rifles chamber 5.56 in their clips.

I agree completely about the idea of hunting deer. A rimfire or magnum rimfire would be more practical, but stowing away food or growing your own moreso. If you have room to hunt, supplement with traps. Still, I can get free tags in many states because I'm a vet, and evn then a deer tag or hog or whatever is a good way to supplement your food for cheap. It's mostly a NAW skill, IMO, but apocalyptic hunting is about as likely as fending off a home invasion for most of us.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Stercutus » Tue May 05, 2015 8:44 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote: My battle rifles chamber 5.56 in their clips.
Yeah, me too until I put them in a magazine, Cuz I can't chamber a round on a clip.

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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by gun toting monkeyboy » Thu May 14, 2015 1:46 pm

"A battle rifle is a military service rifle that fires a full-power rifle cartridge, such as 7.62×51mm NATO or 7.62×54mmR. Usually because of the harsh recoil, they are only semi-automatic (though there are some exceptions), and the larger size of the full-power rifle cartridge means that the capacity will be much lower usually around 10 to 20 rounds, though they usually compensate for this with much more power, range, and accuracy."

You can call your pop gun anything you like. Though I doubt your instructors would have let you call a magazine a "clip" while you were at boot camp, or any time after that. I was under the impression that Marines were kind of funny that way. That said, your calling it that doesn't actually make it that. ;)

For those of us in southern California, hunting deer is about as likely to work as setting up a rain catchment system to supply our water in emergencies. It could happen, but the odds are against it. And we have literally tens of thousands of people who all think that having a deer rifle and a couple of rounds is all they will need to feed themselves should something happen. I live in a very rural area of San Diego. I see deer maybe once or twice a year. If I am lucky. And with my luck, it is normally the week before or right after deer season. The thing is, any game here larger than a coyote (ick) is scarce beyond reason, and will have lots of window-licking morons trying to get it. There are plenty of critters that trapping and a .22 would get you, but it just isn't as sexy to most of the people out there to think about eating ground squirrels or opossums. As far as I am concerned, any rifles I would be using in an emergency would be far more likely to be used to fend off dipshits trying to eat our goats, horses and other animals that they would be for hunting. This just isn't a game-rich environment.

-Mb

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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu May 14, 2015 2:32 pm

gun toting monkeyboy wrote:"A battle rifle is a military service rifle that fires a full-power rifle cartridge, such as 7.62×51mm NATO or 7.62×54mmR. Usually because of the harsh recoil, they are only semi-automatic (though there are some exceptions), and the larger size of the full-power rifle cartridge means that the capacity will be much lower usually around 10 to 20 rounds, though they usually compensate for this with much more power, range, and accuracy."

You can call your pop gun anything you like. Though I doubt your instructors would have let you call a magazine a "clip" while you were at boot camp, or any time after that. I was under the impression that Marines were kind of funny that way. That said, your calling it that doesn't actually make it that. ;)

-Mb
Rifles were generally either "muskets" for the M16 or generally filed under "bangstick" or "killrod" with sniper rifles being given the "death ray" designation. Anyone who got bent out of shape over made-up designation like "battle rifle" or "assault rifle" would have been pelted with rocks and made to sit in the corner. Same with magazine and clip. Copy-pasting the uncited intro to a wikipedia article is like quoting an anonymous reddit user as fact, in that it's utterly meaningless.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by JeeperCreeper » Thu May 14, 2015 3:48 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
gun toting monkeyboy wrote:"A battle rifle is a military service rifle that fires a full-power rifle cartridge, such as 7.62×51mm NATO or 7.62×54mmR. Usually because of the harsh recoil, they are only semi-automatic (though there are some exceptions), and the larger size of the full-power rifle cartridge means that the capacity will be much lower usually around 10 to 20 rounds, though they usually compensate for this with much more power, range, and accuracy."

You can call your pop gun anything you like. Though I doubt your instructors would have let you call a magazine a "clip" while you were at boot camp, or any time after that. I was under the impression that Marines were kind of funny that way. That said, your calling it that doesn't actually make it that. ;)

-Mb
Rifles were generally either "muskets" for the M16 or generally filed under "bangstick" or "killrod" with sniper rifles being given the "death ray" designation. Anyone who got bent out of shape over made-up designation like "battle rifle" or "assault rifle" would have been pelted with rocks and made to sit in the corner. Same with magazine and clip. Copy-pasting the uncited intro to a wikipedia article is like quoting an anonymous reddit user as fact, in that it's utterly meaningless.

There's nothing more that grinds my gears (except for maybe missing the clutch... get it??) than the whole "magazine" vs "clip" business. I get it, in recent years, there has been a dictionary-like distinction between the two.... which means internet experts love to jump on people who misuse the form of the word to show dominance. In my mind, it's metaphorical dog humping.

My grandfather served in 2 wars as a sniper in the Corp. (medals, confirmed kills, the whole 9 yards). He called them "clips". He shot guns and hand loaded until the day he died. He taught my dad how to shoot. My dad says "clips". I talk to many other old timers: gun shop owners, old vets, old hunters, outdoorsman.... in fact, most call them "clips". I guess the Greatest Generation is wrong.

But some internet expert will come in, and say, "Hey Jeeper, that's because they all trained or were familiar with the Garand... which used clips, so they are just old fashioned". And to that, I say, "Wanna see me flex my arm muscle?? I'm sorry, I should call it a bicep instead."

So do I call them "magazines"? Yep, mostly to keep little experts from trying to metaphorically hump me for dominance, because in the end, I don't feel like dropping a rant on a fool in public.

Besides, the whole "you called it a clip" argument is an Ad Hominem debate... it doesn't solve nor prove anything. Except that some people like to try to hump others.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by gun toting monkeyboy » Thu May 14, 2015 6:16 pm

The wikipedia article was simply the easiest to grab. I'll admit that it was lazy, but it conveyed the information. But calling something by the wrong name and then arguing that it is okay to call it the wrong name because you normally do is even more lazy. Yes, it generally gets the information across. But that doesn't mean that it isn't wrong. The same way that saying "My ____ fought in ____, ____, and ____, and he always called them clips" is a lazy argument for why you should be allowed to perpetuate the same error. As for the "clips" versus "magazine" argument, it is still wrong to refer to a magazine as a clip. They are two completely different things. Yes, some people use them interchangeably. That doesn't mean that it isn't wrong. On the other hand, I am much less likely to get upset over that distinction, as I have played games with the clip nazis myself. Posting threads about "I let the clips for my pistol at the range, does anybody know where I can find some more?" Then letting them get a full head of steam going before posting pictures of my Broomhandle Mauser, which does indeed use clips. The point I am trying to make here is that calling something by the wrong name just because "battle rifle" sounds cooler doesn't mean that and AR or AK is a battle rifle. It uses an intermediate cartridge. It just doesn't meet the criteria.

-Mb

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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu May 14, 2015 6:24 pm

gun toting monkeyboy wrote:The wikipedia article was simply the easiest to grab. I'll admit that it was lazy, but it conveyed the information. But calling something by the wrong name and then arguing that it is okay to call it the wrong name because you normally do is even more lazy.The point I am trying to make here is that calling something by the wrong name just because "battle rifle" sounds cooler doesn't mean that and AR or AK is a battle rifle. It uses an intermediate cartridge. It just doesn't meet the criteria.

-Mb
[CITATION NEEDED]

English is a fluid language. Gay no longer means "happy" or "cheerful" just like "clip" is interchangeable with "magazine" in common parlance, and "battle rifle" remains a made-up term. Misusing them annoys pedants, which is why I load my gatteries in my assault clips for my AR-15 battle rifle.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Dawgboy » Thu May 14, 2015 6:30 pm

Cuz I'm an oddball... Here's a thought... You have decided you want to try out the rifle idea but don't want to spend too much, and also want something in an intermediate, easily found cartridge that can pack a real wallop, and shoot through concealment? And you want it rock simple, Easy to fire, and maybe a little shorter than say that $100 Mosin? Find an *Earlier model used Marlin 336 in 30-30. Accurate rifle, a good round (Especially with Hornady Lever Evolution Ammo) Nice short length, Sleek good looks, and isn't an EBR(Evil Black Rifle) so you don't scare the Neighbors.

Had mine out two weekends ago with a group of friends, and the guys with ARs both wanted to shoot mine. I still have an XD40 for my main HD weapon though. but If I do need a little more range, The Marlin does a great job of shooting right through things. One other thought on the Marlin Lever action in 30-30. if you reload, you can under-load the cartridge to subsonic levels and you never have to worry about the action not cycling... That and a highly frangible slug makes for a pretty good HD round, and when you run out of ammo, it's a damn good club!

* Avoid the late 2000's rem-mars. There were some major screwups in the factory after marlin sold out.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Stercutus » Thu May 14, 2015 7:11 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
gun toting monkeyboy wrote:The wikipedia article was simply the easiest to grab. I'll admit that it was lazy, but it conveyed the information. But calling something by the wrong name and then arguing that it is okay to call it the wrong name because you normally do is even more lazy.The point I am trying to make here is that calling something by the wrong name just because "battle rifle" sounds cooler doesn't mean that and AR or AK is a battle rifle. It uses an intermediate cartridge. It just doesn't meet the criteria.

-Mb
[CITATION NEEDED]

English is a fluid language. Gay no longer means "happy" or "cheerful" just like "clip" is interchangeable with "magazine" in common parlance, and "battle rifle" remains a made-up term. Misusing them annoys pedants, which is why I load my gatteries in my assault clips for my AR-15 battle rifle.

[CITATION NEEDED]

My Yuletide is still pretty gay. I most often hear it used sarcastically as well such as someone saying: "this is gay"; meaning "this is boring or not fun at all". "Gay" having nothing to do with implying that waiting for a plane for three days is homosexual or something similar that is lame and boring. Conversely "gay" has been used to denote homosexuality for hundreds of years so that isn't new either.

Part of the problem with have these days is the same as the old days just magnified. Too much ignorance coupled with too much sensitivity spreads an aura of stupidity. Niggardly for example comes from the Norwegian derivation of "niggling". Has nothing to do with what rap "stars" say every third word. People are hesitant to use it though, one guy even got fired over using it at a government job. He was gay.

If you tell me you want a "clip" for your M4 I'll get you a stripper clip. If you say you want a magazine I'll get you a magazine. I might ask if a "clip" is what you really want and therefore waste time in needless conversation because maybe you asked for the wrong thing. If you say you want a clip for your M9 I would just give you a magazine, because I knew what you meant. If you ask for "bullets" and what you want is "rounds" this could lead to more time wasting conversation. Clip, magazine, bullet, round; we are not exactly mixing up kilos and pounds here or even an overbar vs a hyphen. With language and people we can work things out face to face. Of course if I am running a business and someone orders 1000 5.56 magazines from me and what they wanted was 1000 5.56 clips, I sure as hell won't refund their money.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by shrapnel » Thu May 14, 2015 7:18 pm

If the point of this thread isn't to debate the finer points of gun nomenclature, please knock it off and get back on topic.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Beowolf » Thu May 14, 2015 7:20 pm

Dawgboy wrote:Cuz I'm an oddball... Here's a thought... You have decided you want to try out the rifle idea but don't want to spend too much, and also want something in an intermediate, easily found cartridge that can pack a real wallop, and shoot through concealment? And you want it rock simple, Easy to fire, and maybe a little shorter than say that $100 Mosin? Find an *Earlier model used Marlin 336 in 30-30. Accurate rifle, a good round (Especially with Hornady Lever Evolution Ammo) Nice short length, Sleek good looks, and isn't an EBR(Evil Black Rifle) so you don't scare the Neighbors.

Had mine out two weekends ago with a group of friends, and the guys with ARs both wanted to shoot mine. I still have an XD40 for my main HD weapon though. but If I do need a little more range, The Marlin does a great job of shooting right through things. One other thought on the Marlin Lever action in 30-30. if you reload, you can under-load the cartridge to subsonic levels and you never have to worry about the action not cycling... That and a highly frangible slug makes for a pretty good HD round, and when you run out of ammo, it's a damn good club!

* Avoid the late 2000's rem-mars. There were some major screwups in the factory after marlin sold out.
First--huzzah for on topic posts!

Second--what a great suggestion. While the question of the OP doesn't really apply to me--I have a rifle in suburbia because...well, because I can and because I missed shooting like I did in my youth.

Third--is there a reason to go 30-30 over a budget 308? Not sure what one of those old Marlins goes for, but new and functional bolt rifles can be had for ~$300. Just curious.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by zero11010 » Thu May 14, 2015 7:21 pm

Stercutus wrote:....
Didn't you JUST get through with a time out?

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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by shrapnel » Thu May 14, 2015 7:22 pm

Stop. It.

Take the discussion to PM. Last warning.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by JeeperCreeper » Thu May 14, 2015 7:46 pm

Dawgboy wrote:Cuz I'm an oddball... Here's a thought... You have decided you want to try out the rifle idea but don't want to spend too much, and also want something in an intermediate, easily found cartridge that can pack a real wallop, and shoot through concealment? And you want it rock simple, Easy to fire, and maybe a little shorter than say that $100 Mosin? Find an *Earlier model used Marlin 336 in 30-30. Accurate rifle, a good round (Especially with Hornady Lever Evolution Ammo) Nice short length, Sleek good looks, and isn't an EBR(Evil Black Rifle) so you don't scare the Neighbors.

Had mine out two weekends ago with a group of friends, and the guys with ARs both wanted to shoot mine. I still have an XD40 for my main HD weapon though. but If I do need a little more range, The Marlin does a great job of shooting right through things. One other thought on the Marlin Lever action in 30-30. if you reload, you can under-load the cartridge to subsonic levels and you never have to worry about the action not cycling... That and a highly frangible slug makes for a pretty good HD round, and when you run out of ammo, it's a damn good club!

* Avoid the late 2000's rem-mars. There were some major screwups in the factory after marlin sold out.

I like the idea of a good 30-30 lever, or any lever really, even though I don't own one. I like the Marlin 336Y which is the youth model. It has a 16 inch barrel and a 12 inch LOP. That's a pretty slick package with a decent punch.

Figure it's a good "suburbia rifle" because it's not scary but simple, reliable, accurate, fast, low recoiling but powerful. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Besides, .30-30 ammo that you take your time to shoot will be cheaper than a .223/5.56 that you do mag (clip hahaha) dumps on.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu May 14, 2015 7:58 pm

Beowolf wrote:
Dawgboy wrote:Cuz I'm an oddball... Here's a thought... You have decided you want to try out the rifle idea but don't want to spend too much, and also want something in an intermediate, easily found cartridge that can pack a real wallop, and shoot through concealment? And you want it rock simple, Easy to fire, and maybe a little shorter than say that $100 Mosin? Find an *Earlier model used Marlin 336 in 30-30. Accurate rifle, a good round (Especially with Hornady Lever Evolution Ammo) Nice short length, Sleek good looks, and isn't an EBR(Evil Black Rifle) so you don't scare the Neighbors.

Had mine out two weekends ago with a group of friends, and the guys with ARs both wanted to shoot mine. I still have an XD40 for my main HD weapon though. but If I do need a little more range, The Marlin does a great job of shooting right through things. One other thought on the Marlin Lever action in 30-30. if you reload, you can under-load the cartridge to subsonic levels and you never have to worry about the action not cycling... That and a highly frangible slug makes for a pretty good HD round, and when you run out of ammo, it's a damn good club!

* Avoid the late 2000's rem-mars. There were some major screwups in the factory after marlin sold out.
First--huzzah for on topic posts!

Second--what a great suggestion. While the question of the OP doesn't really apply to me--I have a rifle in suburbia because...well, because I can and because I missed shooting like I did in my youth.

Third--is there a reason to go 30-30 over a budget 308? Not sure what one of those old Marlins goes for, but new and functional bolt rifles can be had for ~$300. Just curious.
Recoil, length, and lever-action 308 is a lot more expensive. If you want a target rifle and a hunting gun, a Savage Axis would do just as well as a used Marlin. Ammo's about the same, but the "recoil managed" 308 that's started showing up is about the same as 30-30 at a higher price. Iron sights, and if you get the AW or A model designed for a scope, an over-receiver optic mount is fairly cheap, meaning a red-dot or scope is simple to add. They're a common platform, and XS has a few other scope mounts including a scout mount with backup sights, and XS and Williams make aftermarket sights for those desiring something better than buckhorns.

Also:
Image

Nothing says "bad motherfucker" quite like a leverblatblat.

If defensive use is in mind, levers are generally faster to cycle from the shoulder.

Also, should one wish to tinker:

Image

Srs BAMFitude.
Opinions subject to change in light of new information.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Aikibiker » Fri May 15, 2015 1:33 am

This video is somewhat germane to the discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ax3kpV ... flcdkN6WZw
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by minengr » Fri May 15, 2015 10:15 am

I didn't care to wade through four pages of posts, so forgive me if this is repetitious.

I've lived in and out of Suburbia the past 15-20 years, the majority of it in Illinois. In Illinois the only animals that can be legally hunted with a rifle are varmints. That being said, it's never stood in the way of me purchasing a rifle and I own(ed) just about everything legally available. I like rifles and I enjoy reloading for them. Bolt-action, lever-action, or semi-auto, doesn't matter. Most of them don't get shot near as much as I'd like, but I don't care.

I have a habit of buying projects. Some people enjoy rebuilding cars. I like rebuilding/improving rifles. Installing new stocks, refinishing old stocks, bedding actions,free floating barrels, installing new triggers, mounting scopes, and fine tuning a handload for that specific rifle is what gives me enjoyment. Purpose or need rarely enter the equation. For good or bad, this has led to me owning some wildcat/oddball cartridges where I'd never get my money back. However, I do it for the challenge and for the most part I have no other hobbies so, again, I don't care. Next step is a mill and lathe purchase so I can do my own chambering/gunsmithing.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Neptune Glory » Fri May 15, 2015 1:37 pm

I wound up aquiring a Smith & Wesson M&P 10 chambered in .308 Winchester (camoflague version, rather than black rifle version).

God Bless America!
-Neptune Glory

p.s. Pre-emptively to anyone who looks into my previous posts and sees my older views about civilians and semi-automatic rifles? "I changed my mind. Captain's prerogative!" -Jean Luc Picard
"When it comes to justifiable use of deadly force, you should seek to avoid confrontation, unless you have no choice and your life is on the line. This is easier to say than to do because it requires that you be calm and peace-loving throughout your life, but ready to use deadly force at any moment."

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