Teach me on - 17 HMR

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Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by azrael99 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:23 am

a friend of mine introduced me to the 17 HMR this week, a caliber i heard before, but never too any interest, since it was comparable to .22 and .22 magnum

but then , my friend told me that the 17 hmr also had better ballistic and better accuracy within 300m than .22, and better ballistic too.

the price is still affordable (50 rounds for 15$ )

and this is all i know about it


so can you teach me the advantage and disadvantage of the caliber and sell me it performances ?
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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by nolongpork » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:37 am

The extremely simple and short version on how I like to look at it, is I think of .17 like a scaled down miniature 5.56



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.17_HMR

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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by azrael99 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:21 pm

i also heard that it was a substitute to the 5.56
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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:49 pm

azrael99 wrote:i also heard that it was a substitute to the 5.56
Not hardly. Improvement on .22 WMR, but slinging half or a quarter of the bullet weight of a 5.56 and a thousand FPS slower to boot. 20gr@2000Fps !=
62gr@3000fps, or 55gr@3200fps, or 75gr@2700fps. Not just pure energy, but projectile construction and dimensions.

It's like comparing .300BO and .300WM. Not in the same weight class at all. Supposed to be a good, flat shooting varmint round through.

Edit: Autocorrected a word.
Last edited by Doctorr Fabulous on Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by Mikeyboy » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:24 pm

Correct me if wrong but I hear the .17 is great for small game at out to 150. Its supposedly accurate and flat shooting compared to .22lr and .22mag. .17HMR is big with Western USA folks who hunt prairie dogs.

However there is heated debate if .17HMR is enough to take coyotes and even foxes. I'm thinking in a SHTF it MIGHT work on deer, and for self defense, but it has to be either the perfect headshot, or near point blank range. Honestly with wild dogs/coyotes, emergency deer hunting, and self defense I rather have a .22mag over .17hmr, you get more power within 100yards.

.17hmr is basically an accurate small game gun, great for rabbit, squirrel, prairie dog, but not much else.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/compared_17HMR_22WMR.htm

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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by eeb » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:41 pm

Easier to find than 22lr, but more expensive, and doesn't work in blow-back semiautos. At thirty cents per round it's not much cheaper than Hornady 223 SteelMatch at my LGS ($.40 per round), considering the drawbacks.JMHO

E.T.A. Smaller bullet might be an advantage for fur harvesters.

After checking the local stores and finding zero 22lr, but they all had 17hmr, I ran a brief Google search for a 17 caliber barrel for my Savage Model 64. Quickly gave up when I remembered bottleneck cases don't get along with blowback actions. Believe there were some recalls due to that.
Last edited by eeb on Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by crypto » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:56 pm

eeb wrote: E.T.A. Smaller bullet might be an advantage for fur harvesters.
LOL NO. It does terrible things on the exit side.
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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by azrael99 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:27 pm

5.56 is quite expensive in my area. they are like 0,90 $ each, except surplus ammo. but on another side, the choice of ammo is easier...............they are ALL expensive. just pick the one you need, you gonna pay the same anyway.

i'm just getting interested about that ammo because it is available over here, cheap and it getting more hype over here. probably because of the trappers who use it around to get coyote , beaver or else.
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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by Dooms » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:06 pm

I've got a Savage in .17hmr. It's a great rimfire cartridge. Inherantly very accurate under 150yds or so. For an inexpensive rifle it never fails to impress me with its accuracy.

On small varmints the 17gr plastic tip bullets are down-right explosive. On bigger game you need the 20gr gamepoints. With those you don't see any real advantage over .22 mag until you get past 100yds, even then it's minor.

As many have mentioned, the biggest disadvantage is the lack of inexpensive semi-auto options. If Ruger made a 10-17 I would probably dump my 10-22's for it. Unfortunately, blowback .17's had a problem with splitting cases, so we'll probably never see one again unless they can correct that.

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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by azrael99 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:28 pm

this is not a issue , since i would intend to get a bolt action for long range, and a lever action for close range

but it good to know that i should wait until a proper semi auto is made
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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by tedbeau » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:09 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
azrael99 wrote:i also heard that it was a substitute to the 5.56
Not hardly. Improvement on .22 WMR, but slinging half or a quarter of the bullet weight of a 5.56 and a thousand FPS slower to boot. 20gr@2000Fps !=
62gr@3000fps, or 55gr@3200fps, or 75gr@2700fps. Not just pure energy, but projectile construction and dimensions.

It's like comparing .300BO and .300WM. Not in the same weight class at all. Supposed to be a good, flat shooting varmint round through.

Edit: Autocorrected a word.
Really? I would have assumed that the speed would be quite a bit faster considering in just about every case as the mass of the bullet goes down the speed goes up. Pure physics, I guess, you can get a lighter mass up to a faster speed using the same chamber pressure and barrel length.

I don't know anything at all about the .17 calibers, but I do recall that there are a few different ones, is the .17 HMR the newest high power or are there others that are heavier or faster?

False pre post edit: I googled .17 caliber and found this:
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridg ... 17caliber/

From the article, for the .17 Javelina
23.5-grain bullet, 3,760 fps
25-grain bullet, 3,680 fps

so that's a bit faster than the 5.56 round, and the energy would be 738 ft pounds for the 23.5 gr @ 3760 verses 1250 for the 55 gr @ 3200. Which is 58 % less.
But compared the Doc fab's quote of 20 grains @2000 which is only 178 ft lbs, the javelina is over 3 times more energy than the .17 HMR
Don't know where you get a wildcat cartridge rifle though and you need to "make" your cartridges too.

I guess the .17 HMR is good enough if you want longer range small game hunting though.

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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by azrael99 » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:56 pm

the more intel i get on it the more i start to like it hahaha
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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by Sworbeyegib » Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:18 pm

I know a guy that loves and uses it as a dedicated squirrel and small varmint gun. It does what it's meant to do very well. I see it as still in the same game class as .22mag, just with a bit of a better trajectory.

Even though it is popular in some circles, it won't ever get any near as mainstream as .22lr or .22mag. So many people already own and shoot .22s that unless the are a serious nitpicker for performance, thy don't see the need to buy a new gun/caliber, because the .22's will cover about 75% o the spectrum the .17hmr does, and for cheaper.

However if I were a dedicated varmint and small game hunter, and had the extra scratch laying around, I would pick one up. But I'm not, so I wont.
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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:11 pm

tedbeau wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
azrael99 wrote:i also heard that it was a substitute to the 5.56
Not hardly. Improvement on .22 WMR, but slinging half or a quarter of the bullet weight of a 5.56 and a thousand FPS slower to boot. 20gr@2000Fps !=
62gr@3000fps, or 55gr@3200fps, or 75gr@2700fps. Not just pure energy, but projectile construction and dimensions.

It's like comparing .300BO and .300WM. Not in the same weight class at all. Supposed to be a good, flat shooting varmint round through.

Edit: Autocorrected a word.
Really? I would have assumed that the speed would be quite a bit faster considering in just about every case as the mass of the bullet goes down the speed goes up. Pure physics, I guess, you can get a lighter mass up to a faster speed using the same chamber pressure and barrel length.

I don't know anything at all about the .17 calibers, but I do recall that there are a few different ones, is the .17 HMR the newest high power or are there others that are heavier or faster?

False pre post edit: I googled .17 caliber and found this:
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridg ... 17caliber/

From the article, for the .17 Javelina
23.5-grain bullet, 3,760 fps
25-grain bullet, 3,680 fps

so that's a bit faster than the 5.56 round, and the energy would be 738 ft pounds for the 23.5 gr @ 3760 verses 1250 for the 55 gr @ 3200. Which is 58 % less.
But compared the Doc fab's quote of 20 grains @2000 which is only 178 ft lbs, the javelina is over 3 times more energy than the .17 HMR
Don't know where you get a wildcat cartridge rifle though and you need to "make" your cartridges too.

I guess the .17 HMR is good enough if you want longer range small game hunting though.
.17 Javelina is a centerfire, based on .222 Remington. Javelina to HMR is like .22-250 vs .22WMR
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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by ultra magnus » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:44 pm

For availability 22mag is superior IMO, for ballistic junkies 17wsm is superior.

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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by azrael99 » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:58 pm

not so much in my area, if a store have 22 mag in store they also have 17 hmr and they are approximately the same price
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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by ultra magnus » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:41 pm

Cheap 22 mag is about $2 less than 17. My distributer carries about twice as many loads for 22mag vs 17.

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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by azrael99 » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:16 pm

mag in my area are still expensive, it around 30 to 35 $ per mag at the cheapest.
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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by manowar1313 » Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:42 am

My understand is ballistically it's better then the 22lr. However there's almost no rifles that can shoot it, making it an obscure caliber. I'd give it a couple years and see if there's more guns on the market.
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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by FreuderLocks » Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:56 am

I bought my 17hmr bolt action savage about 5 years back with the hope that this round would become popular in the future. I have nothing but good things to say about the round and the rifle. The rifle is a Savage, came with a reasonable scope and a good wood thumbhole stock and two magazines. Mags are really expensive, like $30 from what i recall. Thats a downer for sure. Ammo for this rimfire rifle is between $15 and $20, for 50 rounds, which is pretty pricey for rimfire in my book, but what rimfire is cheap at this point in comparison to a few years ago? none?

The ballistics are awesome, within about 125yds....Outside of that there is a huge failure to carry velocity and any reasonable accuracy, the projectile at 17gr is just too light. Still good for exploding bunny rabbits and prarie dogs (I mean the explosive part literally, this rifle taught me what Vietnam vets meant by the term "Zipper head", which is gross.

For taking small game its great, punching holes in paper to make your .22 lr friends you brought to the range jealous, great. everything else, pretty bad. Dont let that deter you though, it has its uses, super low if any recoil, reliability (for a rimfire) weight and a list of other attributes are good, its just not good for a whole lot outside of listing attributes lol.
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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by cd2781 » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:13 pm

Kinda bringing this back from the dead, but I have a mossberg 817 bolt action and i dont like it.....I LOVE IT....it is i would say my favorite gun to shoot. It is vicious on groundhogs, squirells, rabbits, even coyotes. My uncle killed a coyote with his at 300 yards (hard to believe i know, and even he'll admit that while he did try, it still required a good bit of luck) but ill lay my hand on the bible that he did. Now, the coyote did run off, but he found it. Everyone thought he had missed.
One thing about this round is the lightweight. If youre shooting any distance at all, you better hold your breath and hope mother nature does the same. It blows all over the place.
Other than that, ballistically its great, very accurate, and for a rimfire, it screams.

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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by minengr » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:38 am

manowar1313 wrote:My understand is ballistically it's better then the 22lr. However there's almost no rifles that can shoot it, making it an obscure caliber. I'd give it a couple years and see if there's more guns on the market.
The HMR has been out since around 2002 and there are quite a few rifles on the market. A buddy has one and is pretty happy. Everything, I've read/heard it's good for squirrel, rabbit, and maybe fox under 125 yards or so. If you're wanting more you need to step up to a centerfire.
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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by eeb » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:59 am

tedbeau wrote:
Really? I would have assumed that the speed would be quite a bit faster considering in just about every case as the mass of the bullet goes down the speed goes up. Pure physics, I guess, you can get a lighter mass up to a faster speed using the same chamber pressure and barrel length.
All other things being equal, a lighter projectile will be faster than a heavier projectile. However, between 17HMR and 223, all other things are not equal, the biggest difference (that I'm aware of) being case capacity.
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Re: Teach me on - 17 HMR

Post by NamelessStain » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:10 am

Here's a decent article cover all rimfires:
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammun ... _072610wo/

Personally, I thought the 5mm Remington would have been the best melding of the .17 HMR and .22 WMR for trajectory and energy. Several companies have started reproducing the ammo, just need a few companies to start making new rifles to use it.
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