.30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

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.30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by Neptune Glory » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:10 pm

Your thoughts? For a bolt action, long distance rifle with good optics?
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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:16 pm

Personally, I'd go .30-06, but that's mostly because I'm keeping ammo cost and availability in mind.

In my AO, .30-06 rounds are something like 22 bucks per box whereas .300 Win Mag is right around 30 to 40 a box. Might be different in your AO, though.

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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:16 pm

Neptune Glory wrote:Your thoughts? For a bolt action, long distance rifle with good optics?
What distance?
Last edited by Doctorr Fabulous on Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by nolongpork » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:17 pm

"Long distance" is a highly subjective term.

I would say stick with 06 unless you want to spend serious time shooting over 1000 yards. and once you cross 500 it becomes a serious game with lots of investment for small gain. and the 06 is much more friendly in the realm of barrel life and ammo affordability and availability.

For 1000+ you should have a glass budget equal if not greater than your rifle budget.

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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by Gregory Merlon » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:41 pm

What the others have said so far.

30-06 is more of a multi-purpose round compared to the 300 Winchester Magnum.

By that, I mean that is kicks less (and is thus easier to master), has more weapon platforms, and a lot more different loads for different purposes than the 300 Winchester Magnum.

The advantage of the 300 WM is much greater range and power.

If you really want to get into it, check out this; it has loads of info on various long-range calibers by people dedicated to long-range shooting.
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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by Dooms » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:25 pm

How about 7mm Remington magnum? It's kinda like a .270 on steroids; very flat shooting and hard hitting (thanks to a projectile with a high ballistic coefficient). Most lists claim it's the best selling of the magnum rifle cartridges.

It's ideally well suited to bullet weighs of about 140-175grains. If you don't see the need for heavier bullet weights (and most don't unless you live in big bear country), it's certainly worth a look.

Just a thought. :)

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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by MaconCJ7 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:56 pm

What is the purpose of your "long range" shooting? Holes in paper, or hunting? I understand that some locales require not close shooting, so I'm not going to say "get closer". Just wondering what the purpose is, as one cartridge isn't equal to another in regards to hunting vs target.
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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by Stercutus » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:25 pm

.30-06 is a bit cheaper and covers about the same distances with similar power ranges. The case is a bit bigger though.
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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by Apathy » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:36 pm

From a prepping standpoint, 30-06 (or 308)


Hunting large/dangerous game .300 magnum.

General long range shooting for fun, 30-06

Serious competition long range shooting, well that is a thread in and of its self.


One question I have is, do you reload? If so the 300 magnum becomes a bit more practical.


Also if you get the 300 magnum, and you want to shoot low powered rounds for a change, you could use these.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_i ... 00-win-mag
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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by Zimmy » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:04 am

Dooms wrote:How about 7mm Remington magnum? It's kinda like a .270 on steroids; very flat shooting and hard hitting (thanks to a projectile with a high ballistic coefficient). Most lists claim it's the best selling of the magnum rifle cartridges.

It's ideally well suited to bullet weighs of about 140-175grains. If you don't see the need for heavier bullet weights (and most don't unless you live in big bear country), it's certainly worth a look.

Just a thought. :)
I'm a 30-06 guy. I love my Savage bolt gun, my sporter BAR, the Garand, the 1903, the Win Model 70, and the Rem 700 in that caliber.

But if I ABSOLUTELY HAD to shoot something hard at medium to long range (200-700 yds) I'd use the Savage 110 7mm mag. That's a hard hitting and straight shooting Sumbitch. 700 yds is pushing the limits of both my skill, glass, and likely opportunity.

I've shot .300 Win, .300 Weatherby, and .300 H&H rifles. I liked the .300 H&H best for shootability.

All that opinionated blabber aside, both will work for about anything in North America. The 30-06 will require better shot placement with huge omnivores and carnivores. After butchering dozens of whitetails shot with both I can attest you will ruin more meat with Magnums.

Maybe that well help you.
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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by Neptune Glory » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:36 am

Thanks for such great replies!

To answer some questions: I'm not a reloader. I'm looking into longer distance shooting than a .308 Scout Rifle can cover (greater than 400 yards according to Jeff Cooper) so this would be with a longer distance scope than a 2-3x long eye relief scope like the Scout Rifle should have.

Purpose would be for SHTF scenerios, with hunting / paper targets as prep work while S-is-not-Hing-T-F.

It sounds like a .30-06 would be the way to go. Thanks!
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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by Dooms » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:55 am

If you already have a .308, than I would lean towards one of the magnum cartridges. .308 win is almost a balistic twin to .30-06. Most of the gain you would see would come from the longer barrel of a full length rifle vs the scout carbine, rather than from the cartridge itself.

For what you're talking about, you want a rifle strictly for long range work. Say 500 to 1000 yards. For that, I would lean towards the magnums. They simply drop less and get bucked by wind less over long distances.

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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by Neptune Glory » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:27 am

Dooms wrote:If you already have a .308, than I would lean towards one of the magnum cartridges. .308 win is almost a balistic twin to .30-06. Most of the gain you would see would come from the longer barrel of a full length rifle vs the scout carbine, rather than from the cartridge itself.

For what you're talking about, you want a rifle strictly for long range work. Say 500 to 1000 yards. For that, I would lean towards the magnums. They simply drop less and get bucked by wind less over long distances.
Okay, that's food for thought, too. Thanks!
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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by nolongpork » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:32 am

Neptune Glory wrote:Thanks for such great replies!

To answer some questions: I'm not a reloader. I'm looking into longer distance shooting than a .308 Scout Rifle can cover (greater than 400 yards according to Jeff Cooper) so this would be with a longer distance scope than a 2-3x long eye relief scope like the Scout Rifle should have.

Purpose would be for SHTF scenerios, with hunting / paper targets as prep work while S-is-not-Hing-T-F.

It sounds like a .30-06 would be the way to go. Thanks!
-Neptune

If you already have said scout rifle in 308 get another 308.
As mentioned 308 30 06 are very similar 308 can work out to 1000 and most don't have the skill, and budget, location to practice that far anyway.

Sticking with 308 would simplify your logistics by a great deal you just need a more capable 308 quality glass and quality ammo.

Jumping calibers makes logistics a pain in the hiney... but sometimes you get the itch for something new as well which it totally understandable. I personally have a penchant for 300 savage and 45/70

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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by Zimmy » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:13 am

nolongpork wrote:
Neptune Glory wrote:Thanks for such great replies!

To answer some questions: I'm not a reloader. I'm looking into longer distance shooting than a .308 Scout Rifle can cover (greater than 400 yards according to Jeff Cooper) so this would be with a longer distance scope than a 2-3x long eye relief scope like the Scout Rifle should have.

Purpose would be for SHTF scenerios, with hunting / paper targets as prep work while S-is-not-Hing-T-F.

It sounds like a .30-06 would be the way to go. Thanks!
-Neptune

If you already have said scout rifle in 308 get another 308.
As mentioned 308 30 06 are very similar 308 can work out to 1000 and most don't have the skill, and budget, location to practice that far anyway.

Sticking with 308 would simplify your logistics by a great deal you just need a more capable 308 quality glass and quality ammo.

Jumping calibers makes logistics a pain in the hiney... but sometimes you get the itch for something new as well which it totally understandable. I personally have a penchant for 300 savage and 45/70
(Hijack, sorry)

I went to 45-70 when I got bored with the ease of long range deer and hog hunting. I just added an H&R Buffalo classic to go with the Guide Gun. One day I'd like to try a .300 Savage or .257 Roberts.
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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by munchie3409 » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:32 pm

OP, you aren't gaining much going from 308 to 30/06.

I've owned from 17HMR up to 50BMG. The 300WM is a great bridge for XLR. Guys over on the hide have shot past 2,000 yards with their 300WM, so it's going to be a much better choice compared to 30/06.

I recently put together a 300WM, because I decided to sell my 338 Lapua Mag. I like the 300WM because I can load it with Hornady 208 gr Amax and use them for my 300BlackOut subsonic ammo as well.

If you don't reload, I'd stick with 308 and call it a day. No sense in having two rifles in two different calibers that does nearly the same thing. If you want another caliber for XLR...get a 7mm mag, 300WM, 338 Edge, 338 Lapua.

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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by Sworbeyegib » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:05 pm

I was originally going to say to just stick with a .30/06. But since you already have a .308, and want something with more long range capabilities, then go with the .300 win mag. You should get something that offers significant increase, rather than a marginal one.

However, I don't think you should scoff at the .308.
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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by Stercutus » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:55 pm

I had trouble justifying the much higher costs for marginal performance improvements.

It is better but all things considered maybe not "that" much better:

- At 500 yards it is 13% faster with same type/ weight bullet
- Drop is about 10" greater with the '06 at 500 yards

Ammo costs are about 50% higher for the .300 WM for the same type and weight bullets.
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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:18 pm

TL:DR an AR-10 with a midrange variable power optic will do everything your scout will do and more, and Cooper is wrong about the max effective of the NATO rounds. He's not been a leading authority since Glock came along and put his favorite sidearm in its place as a historical item with the 21. Or since decent hollowpoints were invented, for that matter. Maybe I'm an angry asshole [protip: I am] but going to him for advice about firearms a whole half-century after he wrote his treatise on the scout rifle is sort of like asking a Vietnamese sniper about tactics and equipment. I know sure as ashit Cooper didn't update his scout rifle concept in the last fifteen years, because he didn't write a paper entitled "The Scout Rifle Is Outdated As Shit, Get An AR-10 Instead."

Mild rant over, I think you're doing yourself a disservice by looking to add a second rifle, optic, and cartridge where a replacement rifle and optic on the same cartridge would tickle your fuzzy nipples just as well.

I think job one is to clearly define your envelope. Set a reasonable minimum/maximum range. Unless you have a hobby of shooting animals at extreme distance, I think the AR-platform will do it without a caliber change. For punching paper at stupid-long distance, look at what the competition guys are using. Most of them that are winning are in the 6mm or 6.5mm family, because of some ballistics voodoo I don't fully ken yet, and less recoil. Don't get me wrong, I love the win-mag, but my capricious nature has me staring at the quarter-bores and molesting my reloading manual in anticipation of the day when I talk myself out of a new caliber.

Something to chew on, maybe.
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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by Stercutus » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:29 pm

I know sure as ashit Cooper didn't update his scout rifle concept in the last fifteen years, because he didn't write a paper entitled "The Scout Rifle Is Outdated As Shit, Get An AR-10 Instead."
Well, that and the fact that he is dead. I must say I agree although the .308 was not on point here.
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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:46 pm

Stercutus wrote:
I know sure as ashit Cooper didn't update his scout rifle concept in the last fifteen years, because he didn't write a paper entitled "The Scout Rifle Is Outdated As Shit, Get An AR-10 Instead."
Well, that and the fact that he is dead. I must say I agree although the .308 was not on point here.
He died a few years back, but I honestly think he was hamstrung by refusing to update with technology after, say, 1985, and I think ideas that were in their prime in those days bear a burden of heavy scrutiny given the leaps and bounds of technology. For instance, irons-only is a sorry concept when you have optics that are as sturdy as irons and give you more capability. The Scout Rifle is at best a precursor to the modern DMR, and easily outclassed by it. As I mentioned above, thirty-cal precision guns are losing favor with better bullet tech for quarterbores and the like for distance shooting, although Big Green has been futzing with some .300 WinMag rifles for Talibusting, and so has NSW, but last I read those rifles were all mag-fed semis.

All I'm asking is that OP cast a skeptical eye at the Scout Rifle concept and the teachings surrounding it, and consider another option that may be more fruitful in the end. If not, then .300WM, because expensive precision ammo will be the same of the game no matter what the caliber.
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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by crypto » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:27 am

I've got a .300WM hunting rifle, and I really wish it was a .30-06 or more specifically, a .308.

I dislike it.
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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by Neptune Glory » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:27 am

Doctorr Fabulous wrote: All I'm asking is that OP cast a skeptical eye at the Scout Rifle concept and the teachings surrounding it, and consider another option that may be more fruitful in the end. If not, then .300WM, because expensive precision ammo will be the same of the game no matter what the caliber.
I don't want a semi-automatic rifle. I own two semi-automatic pistols and I see that as absolutely necessary for proper self-defense. But I'm not a fan of semi-auto rifles -- ever since Sandy Hook, I'm of the opinion that most civilians shouldn't own semi-auto rifles, the exception being ex-military who are already well trained in their use, and who would look at anything else as foreign to them.

The Scout rifle isn't the best thing I could buy. But given my desire to avoid the semi-automatic action for a rifle, one hard hitting bullet will beat 2-3 smaller ones. And with the forward mounted long eye relief optic, it should be fine for anything close-ish.

This thread was about, what to add (if anything) to go longer distance than the Scout with long eye relief scope would really be able to consistently. And I've gotten some really good advice so far.

Thanks!
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Re: .30-06 vs Winchester .300 magnum

Post by Browning 35 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:52 am

Neptune Glory wrote:I don't want a semi-automatic rifle. I own two semi-automatic pistols and I see that as absolutely necessary for proper self-defense. But I'm not a fan of semi-auto rifles -- ever since Sandy Hook, I'm of the opinion that most civilians shouldn't own semi-auto rifles, the exception being ex-military who are already well trained in their use, and who would look at anything else as foreign to them.
Going by that rationale shouldn't you get rid of the semi pistols too?

http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?Q=517284

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If you've limited your selection for whatever reason to bolts I'd just get a .308 and call it done. Performance is about the same as a 30-06 and .300WM has too much recoil, blast and costs too much except for a narrow niche.
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