Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Rem700

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Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Rem700

Post by EndeavourOfWill » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:43 pm

I've decided to put together a long range precision rifle. Originally I was putting together a DMR M14 but decided to sell it, buy an AR15 and put together a bolt action rifle. I have a pretty specific idea in mind but wanted to get some input on a few points.

For optics I'll be using a 6x-24x scope.

For a stock I've decided to use an Accuracy International "AICS" 2.0 (folding stock) in olive drab
http://rifleshooter.com/wp-content/uplo ... oto-13.jpg

I'll be dropping a Remington 700 into that but I can't decide which specific variant I want.

So far I'm looking at these. (stock quality isn't important since I've made up my mind on the AICS)

1. Remington 700 AAC-SD which has a 20 inch heavy barrel and a 1:10 twist rate (which is better for heavier rounds). It comes with a threaded barrel. Suppressors are illegal here but I'd add a flash hider or muzzle break.
http://www.remington.com/products/firea ... ac-sd.aspx

2. Remington 700 SPS Varmint which has a 26 inch heavy barrel and a 1:12 twist. Getting a gunsmith to thread the barrel afterwards will run me $150 ($75 if I buy it through him)
http://www.remington.com/products/firea ... rmint.aspx

These are low end rifles IMO but price is a factor and I've decided to go big on the stock and optics for starters and down the road I may upgrade to a pricier rifle.

I plan on using the rifle for;
1. Zombies and SHTF, obviously.
2. Target shooting (and walking around) at my hunting cabin-mostly closed country.
3. Shooting on a range, including competitions, where the range I'll be shooting at is mostly 600 meters but could be up to 800meters.
4. Teaching daughters how to shoot (and intimidate heart-breaking boys).

I realize a 26" barrel will offer a lot of accuracy and range over the 20" on a range/competition but having a short, folding stock (discreet) long rifle also appeals to me. I've had a 700 police sniper, 26" barrel and I found it was a real bitch to maneuver around the woods/cabin.

Will I be able to hit out to 600 meters with a 20" barrel or do you figure it would drop to much? I'm having a hard time deciding on the range/maneuverability trade off.
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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by Snyper708 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:26 pm

Target shooting (and walking around)
Get the 20" if you really intend to walk around with it
You won't lose enough velocity to make any real difference, and portability will be greatly improved

I'm betting you'll end up doing very little walking around with it when a much lighter rifle will do most of what you want

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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by procyon » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:53 pm

I am going to assume .308.
If so, then the 26" isn't going to get you a lot of extra velocity or accuracy. Finding a load that works best will net you tighter groups. Not sure why you want the flash hider/muzzle break if you are hoping for a long range weapon, but if it makes you happy - go for it.

And when you are talking about long ranges (600yds plus) you really are talking more about doping your load and reading the range/conditions when you want accuracy. An extra 100 fps isn't going to make that big of a difference, especially if the slower load has a group size half that of the hotter one. Find a load that groups well, and take the time to learn how it shoots over range and in the wind. You can find places online that will do the math for you if you can chrony your load so that you can get a good idea of the drop/wind drift/etc. Temp, air pressure (sea level vs 5000' elevation),difference in elevation between you and the target, etc, ad nauseum... all affect how you shoot out that far if you are hoping to put rounds on target without using good optics/spotter/walking them on target.

Good luck. If you are serious about putting rounds on target consistently out at 800 yds takes some homework.
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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by Browning 35 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:45 pm

+1 20' inch barrel. A 26' heavy for walking around with is....well, heavy. Also not very handy.

A 20' will do 600m. If it was being made for farther I'd say 26'.
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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by Stercutus » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:54 am

I am not sure how the longer barrel is going to improve accuracy. If you are shooting with a scope sight radius wont change. You may get a bit more fps depending upon your load which will improve drop (depending upon your load) but I would say 20 should do you.
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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:22 am

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/1 ... -accuracy/

Image

Image

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Relevant excerpts:
Overall, as demonstrated in the accuracy charts, the shortest barrel length provided the most consistent accuracy across the board and the longest length proved to be the least accurate with the same loads.
Assuming the barrel is long enough to stabilize the round, assuming enough velocity is generated to attain stable flight all the way to the target, and assuming the barrel profile and construction is the same, a shorter barrel will be more rigid and more accurate. If you do your part, it'll be easier to make those 600m hits with the 20" and I'd be shocked if you saw a significant reduction in terminal performance with a 16 or 18 as well.

All props go to Czechnology for sharing the original paper and stuff with me back in the day.
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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by EndeavourOfWill » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:29 pm

Wicked feedback, thanks a lot guys!
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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by Dabster » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:42 pm

My Armalite AR-10t has a 24 inch barrel. I'm told this is a rare and coveted configuration. Sure it is accurate and a dream to shoot but it is heavy. When they were in competition for the government contract they made a 20 inch version. One of my pipe-dreams is to upgrade to that barrel.

I guess I'm saying that I think 20 inches is enough for a .308.
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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by munchie3409 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:46 pm

I agree with the poster that commented that barrel length has nothing to do with the rifle being more precise.

If your longest distance is 600 yards, you won't have any issues if you go with a 20" barrel. If you are picking 308, which is what it sounds like...I'd recommend getting 1:10 to take advantage of heavier projectiles...IE 175/178gr bullets.

Honestly, if you are "building" and you want to squeeze out best performance, avoid 308 and get 260 Remington. You will get much better performance compared to 308.

I know you said you like the AICS, but it's not for everyone. The only reason I see in getting the 2.0 is if you are going to buy a long action so you won't have to remove the chassis to remove the bolt. Sure, the 2.0 is a folder so you save some inches if in a pack/rifle case, but I don't think the 2.0 stage is all that.

Having owned a 1.5 chassis...I'd say you should try one before you buy one. Not everyone is a fan of thumbhole stocks. I liked mine, but if I were to recommend or buy another stock...I say Manners is where you should be looking at. I also like XLR more then McRee.

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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by EndeavourOfWill » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:05 pm

How come most sniper rifles/precision rifles seem to sport a 24-26" barrel if it doesn't play that much into accuracy?

I haven't shot much precision rifles but I've seen a significant difference in accuracy between a 14.5" barreled AR15 and a 20" barreled one.


Not sure if it's related or not but I know a shorter barreled M203 40mm is quite a bit more accurate than the longer barreled ones.
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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by Stercutus » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:11 pm

EndeavourOfWill wrote:How come most sniper rifles/precision rifles seem to sport a 24-26" barrel if it doesn't play that much into accuracy?

I haven't shot much precision rifles but I've seen a significant difference in accuracy between a 14.5" barreled AR15 and a 20" barreled one.


Not sure if it's related or not but I know a shorter barreled M203 40mm is quite a bit more accurate than the longer barreled ones.
If you are shooting long, long distance and load your own rounds you can get more out of a longer barrel. By more I mean longer range, less drop, more energy on target. Also applies if you are shooting a more powerful round like the .300 winmag or the Lapua. With .308 the tradeoff is more negligible.

Edit: There are other reasons too that have little to do with accuracy, that is just the most obvious.
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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by jackal556 » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:45 am

I've been wielding the R700 VLS in .308 and it has the 26" bull barrel and the laminate varminter stock. I originally built it to do Class F. It is heavy and unwieldy in close terrain, but I love it none the less.
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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by Molon Labe » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:05 pm

With a .308win (7.62 NATO) and a 21-22 inche barrel, you're not pushing the envelope of a properly built rifle till you reach out to 800mtrs. A Savage Weather Warrior is all that one should need unless irons are a must, which all things said and done "I" do require.

But if your heart is dead set on one of the most over rated platforms around, I can see no fault in your choice. Allegedly, the Rem 700 has been making a return to form for the price in the past 4 or so years. When you choose your bipod, I highly recommend Harris.

I can guarantee that your chosen set up can out shoot your own ability, so those super-tac mods that are as ridiculously similar as phone apps are for the average consumer are entirely unneeded.

I may apologize if you weren't looking for advice on a build that would suite your needs, but you're pretty sure about what you want so I won't insult your tastes.
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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by Molon Labe » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:15 pm

Not to poo-poo on some guys/gals parades, but some of you complicated the bejesus out of these things. Maybe I'm an old cart, but one of the aspects of the human mind that are lauded is the ability to simplify the complexities. Don't over think these things, all the info you need is out there and posted by men who have been there and learned this first hand.
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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by Molon Labe » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:16 pm

*fart* Ducking kindle auto-correct.
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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by EndeavourOfWill » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:42 am

Figured I'd update this instead of making a new thread.


So I've picked up the AICS 2.0 folding stock (which felt like a second mortgage) and just got my hands on a Remington 700 AAC-SD with 20 inch barrel. Not exactly impressed with the feel of the rifle, the qualify seems lacking and it really feels like a $700 rifle, may look at upgrading down the road.

My next step is to pick up a scope and I'm totally vexed.

I've narrowed it down to a couple options, the magnification being the primary deciding factor.

I'm torn between a 6-24x50 scope and 4-16x50 scope

https://www.vortexcanada.net/product/vi ... icle-mrad/
https://www.vortexcanada.net/product/vi ... icle-mrad/

This series is also in the running, which is a little cheaper, but once again I'd have to decide between the 6-24 and 4-16
https://www.vortexcanada.net/product-ca ... iper-hs-t/

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Primarily the rifle will be used for recreational purposes and slowly getting into competition shooting. The range will be up to 600 meters to start with gradually trying to reach out to 1000 meters. I can also see me bringing it to the hunting cabin for recreational shooting in a mostly closed country environment.

I have a lot of people telling me the more stronger the optic the better but I've found it can be harder to see mirage if a scope is really strong (24x)
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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by nolongpork » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:04 pm

I think this one is the better choice you will need the extra elevation it has

https://www.vortexcanada.net/product/vi ... icle-mrad/

also look into your rings and or base and get a set that install elevation already for instance a 20moa scope base you will need it.

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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by tinythief » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:07 pm

I had a swfa 5-20 which I sold off. The primay arms 4-14 ffp is pretty clear too. I sold off my aics 2.0 and swfa to fund a ar.
The pa4-14 has not been tested on my 700 yet but soon, it sits on top a 20moa egw rail

Pa 4-14: I had a swfa 5-20 which I sold off. The primay arms 4-14 ffp is pretty clear too. I sold off my aics 2.0 and swfa to fund a ar.

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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:03 am

folding stock?? then go 20" barrel... it just makes sense :)

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Re: Building a long range rifle- range or maneuverability-Re

Post by minengr » Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:58 am

I'd be thinking SS 10x MRAD. Spend the difference on ammo. Lapua brass and 155gr Scenars would be at the top of the list.
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