DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

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DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Domino » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:25 pm

This is really cool, not something most would expect from DPMS but this is a new platform...

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http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...ms-308-gen-ii/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- 7.25 lbs
- Dual Ejectors
- Improved Extractor
- Monolithic bolt carrier
- Forged 7075 Receivers
- Chrome lined 4150 barrel
- Reduced size and weight
- Beveled mag well

And much more with a starting MSRP of $1499.

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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Browning 35 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:44 am

At least it has a FA, that's cool.
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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Alpha-17 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:29 am

OK, so DPMS is making a carbine sized AR-10....... This is a game changer how?
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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:46 am

Alpha-17 wrote:OK, so DPMS is making a carbine sized AR-10....... This is a game changer how?
The big one I picked up on was that the receiver is the same external diameter as an AR15 receiver (thinner bolt carrier profile) which should cut weight significantly. No idea if that means the same diameter as their slabsides upper or not though.

Either it will be copied and made better by others, or it will fail miserably. AR10s seem to be the one thing DPMS tries not to fuck up, so it could go either way.
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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Gingerbread Man » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:52 am

I'm an AR-10 fanboy and I don't think they should be over $1500. The AP4s that I had were $999. They ran well until they didn't but were easily as accurate as any AR-15. The guy I sold one to locally, with caveats on it's operation, asked me to rebuild it. It appears from the original and the rebuild kit that extractor was redesigned.

Looking at this one it has the correct specs and they're addressing the problems with extraction/ejection. I'm keen to try one and wring it out. I'm also going to wring the PSA offering out. I'm wondering how similar the two will be.

I'm moderately optimistic on the "new" AR-10s.
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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Browning 35 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:00 am

Gingerbread Man wrote:I'm moderately optimistic on the "new" AR-10s.
Me too, but I think I'll stick with my original plan and get another PTR-91. At least I know that thing will work for sure.
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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by KYZHunters » Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:22 am

I think there is some well-earned skepticism about DPMS but it has kind of become a reflexive 'Yuk, yuk, Don't Purchase My Shit'. Look through the DPMS comments on ZS and most are caveated with 'I don't own one and haven't shot one, heck, I've never even seen one, but....'
I've had a bull-barrel Low Pro for about three years that shoots like a champ and isn't finicky about what you feed it.
If they have produced a nice AR-10 at a decent price point it might be a game changer for the company though they still have to overcome the above.
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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by 0122358 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:57 pm

Does anyone make an AR10 that shoots steel cased reliability? Oh and that also has an 18" bbl?
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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:15 pm

0122358 wrote:Does anyone make an AR10 that shoots steel cased reliability? Oh and that also has an 18" bbl?
I hear good things about LMT.
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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Domino » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:50 pm

Alpha-17 wrote:OK, so DPMS is making a carbine sized AR-10....... This is a game changer how?
Oh, you didn't watch the video? Because if you can't tell what makes this one different from the others then you don't know much about 308 AR platforms. This isn't an AR-10...
0122358 wrote:Does anyone make an AR10 that shoots steel cased reliability? Oh and that also has an 18" bbl?
Yeah, my DPMS LR-308B does both of those. The steel case isn't the most accurate stuff out there (3 MOA) but I have shot hundreds and hundreds of rounds of it without any failures.

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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:00 pm

Domino wrote:
0122358 wrote:Does anyone make an AR10 that shoots steel cased reliability? Oh and that also has an 18" bbl?
Yeah, my DPMS LR-308B does both of those. The steel case isn't the most accurate stuff out there (3 MOA) but I have shot hundreds and hundreds of rounds of it without any failures.
Doesn't their warranty still say not to shoot anything but US manufacture brass cased ammo?
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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Domino » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:09 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
Domino wrote:
0122358 wrote:Does anyone make an AR10 that shoots steel cased reliability? Oh and that also has an 18" bbl?
Yeah, my DPMS LR-308B does both of those. The steel case isn't the most accurate stuff out there (3 MOA) but I have shot hundreds and hundreds of rounds of it without any failures.
Doesn't their warranty still say not to shoot anything but US manufacture brass cased ammo?
It does. It also voids the DPMS warranty by using handloads which I almost shoot exclusively now. Glock's warranty is also voided by the use of handloads and I shoot a bunch of them so I guess I don't pay much attention to warranty's. Honestly, if I thought any of my guns would need actually need their warranty I would of sold them shortly after getting them. YMMV

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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by TheLastOne » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:36 pm

Pretty sure they show steel case hitting the ground at the end of the vid.

Good for them for looking to fix up their offering. I like the 'from the rear of the magwell being standard AR compatible' (stocks, triggers, grips). Interested about them adding a feedramp and the durability of the extractor thing.

Battlerifle? Would take a lot of time for proving. Probably a sweet hunting/hog rifle. I got a kick of my ap4 308 from them. Probably shoulda held onto it.
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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:38 pm

TheLastOne wrote:Pretty sure they show steel case hitting the ground at the end of the vid.

Good for them for looking to fix up their offering. I like the 'from the rear of the magwell being standard AR compatible' (stocks, triggers, grips). Interested about them adding a feedramp and the durability of the extractor thing.

Battlerifle? Would take a lot of time for proving. Probably a sweet hunting/hog rifle. I got a kick of my ap4 308 from them. Probably shoulda held onto it.
The new one, I'll keep an eye on, but the current lineup in now way compares to an LMT or LWRC.
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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by TheLastOne » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:40 pm

^ oh totally agree. Just saying it's nice to see them working on improvements and making some advances. Again, probably a nice hunter for less than the LMT will be (and for a entirely different consumer I'm guessing).
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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Domino » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:40 am

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:The new one, I'll keep an eye on, but the current lineup in now way compares to an LMT or LWRC.
True but or half the price of an LMT how do you expect a DPMS to compare? They do not even really compete directly because of the difference in price. Nevertheless, the DPMS still slings the same lead just as (or even more) accurately. I say, If it works, it works.

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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:11 am

Domino wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:The new one, I'll keep an eye on, but the current lineup in now way compares to an LMT or LWRC.
True but or half the price of an LMT how do you expect a DPMS to compare? They do not even really compete directly because of the difference in price. Nevertheless, the DPMS still slings the same lead just as (or even more) accurately. I say, If it works, it works.
Gunbroker LMTs (used to be) $1200-ish. If I'm buying an AR10, I'm not buying a gun that voids the warranty with handloads or steel cased ammo. A $500 Glock is a different matter than a thousand dollar rifle. That's just my take on it.
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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by yossarian » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:09 am

Doctorr Fabulous wrote: Gunbroker LMTs (used to be) $1200-ish. If I'm buying an AR10, I'm not buying a gun that voids the warranty with handloads or steel cased ammo. A $500 Glock is a different matter than a thousand dollar rifle. That's just my take on it.
From LMT's website
Warranty Statement
Due to the many different requirements imposed by federal and state laws on consumer warranties, no express warranty, either "full" or "limited", is offered with this product. Implied warranties, including the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose, are limited in duration to one year from the date of purchase. We will not cover normal wear and tear or abuse. Some states do not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty lasts, so this limitation may not apply to you.
Most manufacturers that I am aware of make a warranty exception for handloads and foreign ammo. Billy Bob's flea market express hotloads and 1960's Whatthefuckistan surplus ammo tends to be a little unpredictable.
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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:25 am

yossarian wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote: Gunbroker LMTs (used to be) $1200-ish. If I'm buying an AR10, I'm not buying a gun that voids the warranty with handloads or steel cased ammo. A $500 Glock is a different matter than a thousand dollar rifle. That's just my take on it.
From LMT's website
Warranty Statement
Due to the many different requirements imposed by federal and state laws on consumer warranties, no express warranty, either "full" or "limited", is offered with this product. Implied warranties, including the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose, are limited in duration to one year from the date of purchase. We will not cover normal wear and tear or abuse. Some states do not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty lasts, so this limitation may not apply to you.
Most manufacturers that I am aware of make a warranty exception for handloads and foreign ammo. Billy Bob's flea market express hotloads and 1960's Whatthefuckistan surplus ammo tends to be a little unpredictable.
"No warranty" is different than "Warranty only if you use really high quality ammo and don't mess with it." Used rifles don't normally have a warranty anyway, but it's more the conditions set that worry me. For instance, shooting PRVI, IMI (unless that's changed) S&B, or ammunition from a licensed reloader like Freedom Munitions also voids your DPMS warranty. Shooting ammo that competitor's rifles will run should not be cause for a manufacturer of a quality firearm to void the warranty. DPMS is known for letting subpar machines leave their doors, so while I like the concept, I'll be skeptical of the execution.
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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Gingerbread Man » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:28 am

Hey, let's compare Champagne to PBR then recommend the Champagne to the the person on a PBR budget when they could easily get Yuengling and be just as crunk. Then argue Champagne is way better and guarantees a better drunk.

In a PBR thread. Brilliant.

Yeah, you could get a ford focus that works and won't bust your budget but you should totally get the Audi. Granted, I don't own an Audi and never have drove one but they're the best. You know for the niche gun the 308 semi is, the PTR is priced right and is still less than this DPMS unobtainium. Hk rollerguns have what, 65 years of running hard? They run steel just fine and the brass is reloadable. I do. All in for a PTR and 20 mags is $950 from Atlantic Arms.

But go ahead, spin the AR 10 wheel. I'm keen on trying the new breed. Skip any one else's mags except pmags.
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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Browning 35 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:07 pm

:lol:

@GBM : So have any of the .308 AR's you've owned worked alright if run hard and put up wet? Or have they all been a flop in the dept and they've generally needed to be babied? If so, which one out of them ran the best with higher rd counts?
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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Gingerbread Man » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:28 pm

B35, I've had 2 DPMS guns that were astoundingly accurate but gave up when pushed. Sad because I loved them. I really think the bolt redesign was all the was necessary, really just the extractor. I've had 3 Armalites, while being laser like in their accuracy they were prima donnas when it came to ammo and mags while being expensive were hit and miss.
Other 308 semis I've owned are the 5 SA M1A back when they had USGI parts. Those are great but the new ones are over grown mini 14s. No metal inserts in the stock? In their defense they do run like scaled apes but @$1500 with $25 mags?
In the FAL department I've owned 8 DSA guns, 4 home made on Imbel and Steyr kits, an Enterprise and a ARS built on a Steyr kit. These run great but have upside down cross shaped groups that string vertically by 7" and about 5" wide at 200 yes. No once can fix it, acceptable combat accuracy but not what I wanted. I'll probably get another just because.
Back to the PTR, still cheap mags, accurate and for the role a semi auto fills, more than adequate. PTRs, imo, are just as good as the Hks.
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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Domino » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:29 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote: Gunbroker LMTs (used to be) $1200-ish. If I'm buying an AR10, I'm not buying a gun that voids the warranty with handloads or steel cased ammo. A $500 Glock is a different matter than a thousand dollar rifle. That's just my take on it.
fair enough but LMT's aren't $1200-ish anymore, nor are saiga 12's $300-ish like I remember about 8 years ago. What does it matter what the old prices were?
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:"No warranty" is different than "Warranty only if you use really high quality ammo and don't mess with it." Used rifles don't normally have a warranty anyway, but it's more the conditions set that worry me. For instance, shooting PRVI, IMI (unless that's changed) S&B, or ammunition from a licensed reloader like Freedom Munitions also voids your DPMS warranty. Shooting ammo that competitor's rifles will run should not be cause for a manufacturer of a quality firearm to void the warranty. DPMS is known for letting subpar machines leave their doors, so while I like the concept, I'll be skeptical of the execution.
Ok, so no warranty by LMT is better than a limited warranty by DPMS? Not sure I'm following you there. In my view, any company (warranty or not) should cover defects or problems from the manufacturer which most firearms companies will cover to include DPMS. These sort of problems are usually found pretty quickly after purchasing a weapon and not years down the road. I've only sent one gun back to the manufacturer over the years and I found the problem within days of buying it. On a practical note unless you managed to blow up your weapon using some sort of crazy handload or surplus ammo (which NO company would cover BTW), how would the manufacturer KNOW that you used any particular load that voided warranty? I mean, can they really tell a difference from a gun where someone shot Privi and someone shot Federal match? I somehow doubt it...

ETA: While I don't agree with or entirely understand the reasoning of the DPMS warranty, they felt it was necessary for some reason. People do some crazy things with their guns and maybe people are more likely to do something stupid with a cheap DPMS than top shelf LMT. I will agree that a good gun should be able to shoot any ammo from a reputable source without voiding the warranty. My DPMS's warranty is long gone and it shoots the ammo I want it to so its a non-issue for me.

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Re: DPMS GII 308 MSR (game changer)

Post by Browning 35 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:18 pm

Cool, thanks. Sucks about the DPMS and Armalites. Just want some more practical experience in running the .308 AR's hard, I know what the gun rags say.

I owned a Springfield M1A in the past for a long time, two FAL's (Imbel and a DSA), a PTR-91 and we had an H&K 91 in the 80's when I was growing up. No AR-10's though. Should have kept one of those around, but when the price of .308 ammo increased dramatically they got sold here and there. Couple of buddies have AR-10 variants, but they're more for hog and deer hunting and they're babied with less than 1,000 rds through all 3 of them. One guy has 3 deer and 6-7 hogs on his and he only has maybe 120 rds period through it including a sight in.
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Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

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