Two-shot rifle scope sight in

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Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by maldon007 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:05 pm

So simple I assume many people know this, but WTF, incase you dont-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiOpQY2ORo4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by Nutpantz » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:41 pm

How about a explanation instead of a video for those of us surfing on a phone.

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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by maldon007 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:59 pm

Sorry, good point!


Its just a simple technique to sight in, and works as long as your only off by half the target width or less.

1. Place rifle on sandbags, aim dead center on target, take your best slowest shot, at the distance you want zero'ed.
2. Re-sight on center again, pressing rifle into bags so it will stay... Or hold while a friend adjusts scope.
3. Adjust scope till the crosshairs are on the hole you made.
4. Shoot again to check.

So really it's a one shot system.
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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by Kutter_0311 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:11 pm

That's sooo not going to work.

1. Shoot 3-5rds slow fire.

2. Adjust sights.

3. Shoot 3-5rds to confirm proper adjustment.

Don't be stingy with the ammo, it's all good training :wink:
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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:14 pm

A technique called "bench sighting" usually using a vise to hold the rifle perfectly still. Shooter fires, ensuring that the crosshair is centered on the bulls-eye. After the shot, move adjust the crosshairs over the impact without moving the rifle.

TBH, it's much less error-prone to use an MOA-marked target, a known distance, and know the adjustments of the optic. If you had glass powerful enough to see the impact, a vise to hold the gun, and everything was free-floated and locked in place. The reality of it is that it's sort of impractical for most shooters. Too much margin for error, IMO, unless you have the expensive toys and wingdings.
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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by maldon007 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:27 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote: using a vise to hold the rifle perfectly still. Shooter fires, ensuring that the crosshair is centered on the bulls-eye. After the shot, move adjust the crosshairs over the impact without moving the rifle
I know you know your shit, but why do you need a vise, if after the test shot you re-aim, back on center? It seems like it does the same thing, in practice... (or theory :lol: )

Either way, I'm sure gonna try this... Of course zeroing a .22 at 50 yards (me) is nothing like doing a big bore at 200 yards or whatever.
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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by t3tac » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:33 pm

Try hillbilly boresighting if you're using a bolt gun. Make sure it's empty, remove the bolt and align the bullseye in the center of the bore. Slowly look up into the optic and see where the crosshair is positioned. Adjust as necessary. I usually run about 1.5 inch high @ 100 yds on my Rem VLS .223 for example. Put everything back. Bang. Adjust as necessary. Bang. Usually on. Saves a little walking and a lot of ammo, not to mention cussing. Happy New Year!

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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:40 pm

maldon007 wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote: using a vise to hold the rifle perfectly still. Shooter fires, ensuring that the crosshair is centered on the bulls-eye. After the shot, move adjust the crosshairs over the impact without moving the rifle
I know you know your shit, but why do you need a vise, if after the test shot you re-aim, back on center? It seems like it does the same thing, in practice... (or theory :lol: )

Either way, I'm sure gonna try this... Of course zeroing a .22 at 50 yards (me) is nothing like doing a big bore at 200 yards or whatever.
It's tough to hold that reticle centered and adjust the sights, even if you have a buddy adjusting. You also have to make sure the rifle didn't move on the rest when you fired.
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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by maldon007 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:42 pm

Don't need one o' them fancy lay-zer thiny's huh? :lol:
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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by t3tac » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:48 pm

Lasers help for pre sighting at home before heading to the range. I also use one to align my NV riflescope before headin to work. Most ranges frown on shooting in the dark. Not sure what that's about...

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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by Kutter_0311 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:11 pm

t3tac wrote:Lasers help for pre sighting at home before heading to the range. I also use one to align my NV riflescope before headin to work. Most ranges frown on shooting in the dark. Not sure what that's about...
Your NV optic didn't come with a pinhole daylight lenscap? It should allow you to use the optic in daylight.
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Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by Chris@MTCT » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:23 pm

This is the same concept we used when zeroing 25mm and the coax on Bradley's.

It does work way better for a rifle if you have a vise.

Also I would advise firing more then just one conformation shot or one grouping shot. Especially if your not using a mechanical rest of some type.
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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by maldon007 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:59 pm

Yeah, I certainly took it as a hasty quick fix, if you just need it pretty close... Especially since you are limited to a distance you can see the holes... Probably should have added that :lol:
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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by t3tac » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:02 am

Oops forgot the quote...sorry.
Last edited by t3tac on Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by t3tac » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:05 am

Kutter_0311 wrote:
t3tac wrote:Lasers help for pre sighting at home before heading to the range. I also use one to align my NV riflescope before headin to work. Most ranges frown on shooting in the dark. Not sure what that's about...
Your NV optic didn't come with a pinhole daylight lenscap? It should allow you to use the optic in daylight.
Yeah but 10 min max pwr on in daylight. My laser is a cheapo, not too powerful. Need a better one I guess but works ok @ night.
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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by minengr » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:22 am

FWIW I do this
t3tac wrote:Try hillbilly boresighting if you're using a bolt gun. Make sure it's empty, remove the bolt and align the bullseye in the center of the bore. Slowly look up into the optic and see where the crosshair is positioned. Adjust as necessary.
then this
maldon007 wrote: 1. Place rifle on sandbags, aim dead center on target, take your best slowest shot, at the distance you want zero'ed.
2. Re-sight on center again, pressing rifle into bags so it will stay... Or hold while a friend adjusts scope.
3. Adjust scope till the crosshairs are on the hole you made.
Then I start shooting groups.
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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by FelixArchon » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:00 pm

This is just me talking, but - other than humor - I can't think of any possible reason to try sighting in a rifle this way.

I don't care what sort of climate controlled range you're on or what sort of micro-managed loads you're shooting or what sort of vice the rifle is locked into. One shot is not going to give you a reasonable starting point to adjust aim, and - even if you get it - one subsequent shot through the bullseye is not a reasonable zero. Even if all you're doing is sighting in a .22 to plink cans at 50 yards, it's worth taking the time to do the job right, which means shooting groups, not just shots.

Besides, shooting is supposed to be fun. You should want to pull the trigger more, not less. Right?

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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:00 pm

FelixArchon wrote:This is just me talking, but - other than humor - I can't think of any possible reason to try sighting in a rifle this way.
Besides, shooting is supposed to be fun. You should want to pull the trigger more, not less. Right?
Tell that to the guys shooting .338FedMag or Lapua at $2 pe round or more.

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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by FelixArchon » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:05 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
FelixArchon wrote:This is just me talking, but - other than humor - I can't think of any possible reason to try sighting in a rifle this way.
...
Besides, shooting is supposed to be fun. You should want to pull the trigger more, not less. Right?
Tell that to the guys shooting .338FedMag or Lapua at $2 pe round or more.

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Not buying it. (So to speak.) When every pull of the trigger costs $2, you want to be even MORE sure that your zero is reliable, since spray-and-pray is not an option. Far cheaper to get a good zero and follow it with good shots than it is to throw a lot of expensive lead downrange trying to overcome a weak sight-in job.

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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by maldon007 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:11 pm

FelixArchon wrote:
Besides, shooting is supposed to be fun. You should want to pull the trigger more, not less. Right?

I agree, but why not give it a try? If it doesn't work, the subsequent group will show that & you do it the regular way... If it does, you got there quicker, what the hell.
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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by FelixArchon » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:57 pm

maldon007 wrote:
FelixArchon wrote:
Besides, shooting is supposed to be fun. You should want to pull the trigger more, not less. Right?

I agree, but why not give it a try? If it doesn't work, the subsequent group will show that & you do it the regular way... If it does, you got there quicker, what the hell.
I hear you, and if all you're doing is using this as a fun game to put some lead downrange, go for it. I'm right there with you in finding ways to make range time interesting.

What bothers me is when people act under some cloak of authority (the producers of that video, The National Shooting Sports Foundation, for example) and offer this up as an apparently legitimate way to zero a scope. This is EXACTLY the sort of thing that a noob will try to do, and is one explanation why every last mall ninja and internet commando will swear that it only should only take you two shots to zero your scope. After all, it looks easy, makes sense rationally and analytically, and hey, it's just two shots! Only two shots wasted on sighting in before you're ready to do some "real" shooting!

People will believe it because they want to believe it, never mind that it completely overlooks the actual reality (and physics) of marksmanship. The most likely actual result is the noob or mall ninja in question taking those fist two shots, and then spending the next 20 shots (or however many shots they take - possibly spending a dollar with each pull of the trigger - before they quit and go home) adjusting their scope after every shot, chasing the bullseye and wondering what's wrong with their scope that they can't get it zeroed.

Almost always, the right way is the right way for a reason. This is not the right way to zero a scope, but people will believe that it is, and need to be corrected. Which of course, they'll resist, insisting that they can make it happen, because a respectable source put it on the internet, and because it makes sense mathematically. (At least, it makes sense mathematically until they realize that there are critical factors they're not considering.)

All because an org that purports to be a respected and knowledgeable player in the shooting industry posted a bullshit 2 minute video on youtube.

/rant

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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by maldon007 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:44 pm

Very good points... I think their vid should have gone further in explaining how to do it the standard way, if you want precision rather than just ballpark... And that if it doesn't work at all, don't keep trying it, since you obviously lack something needed to achieve doing it this way (to whatever extent it would work, that is).

Being a newb rifle shooter I have chased the bullseye some myself... Though I didn't know there was a name for it :lol: ...So I totally get what your saying.
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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by TravisM.1 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:53 pm

I usually boresight everything before it gets to a bench. I'm pretty proficient after doing it for so long. My sistersboyfriend brought his 22 up on new years day, needing zero'd. We boresighted it from my dining room table, through my kitchen, to a magnet on a small refrigeratoe in my laundry room, and were hitting 1" spinning targets with it, with no further adjustment a little while later.

Ive tried the "shoot one and align" method before. It takes one more shot than boresighting, in my experience.

ETA- Obviously both are rough adjustment to get you at least on the paper. Its no substitute for a solid bench, a paper target, and range time to make final adjustments. As close as my sistters boyfriends 22 was to being zeroed, its wasnt ready for the pepsi challenge against anything thats been properly bench zeroed.
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Re: Two-shot rifle scope sight in

Post by MacWa77ace » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:06 pm

If you just mounted a new scope and want to site in for say 600 yds you would probably not hit the side of a barn at that range on the first shot. Let alone be able to see the hit on the target. But there is a short range equivalent for 600 yards as bullets travel on a trajectory. And pulling the bolt out to look down the barrel wouldn't work for short or long range for this reason. And laser boresighting can only be done short range also. Can't remember the exact numbers but the short range equivalants are something like 12m = 600m, 25m = 400m, 50m = 200m. [someone may have the exact tables, and they vary by type of round, then you calculate number of inches below bullseye etc.] This doesn't mean it won't take a few shots to get zero'd at short range. But maybe that two shot thing will work at/on short range calculations.


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Then you move the target out to the actual range and tweak from there.

I remember when I got my Trijicon Acog 4X32, I ran straight to the 100yd range with a couple mags. [so excited :clap: , no targets, no spotting scope, no nuttin'] Had to buy a target they sold at the range, plain paper, low contrast. Set my target up at 100yd, line went hot and what'ya know, could not see my hits with the crappy EDC 10x binos I had. So just to have something to do while the line was hot, fired thirty with the cross hairs on the bullseye. Line went cold. Walked up to the target and low and behold a nice 2 inch group 9 inches high and 8 inches to the right. [target did have one inch increment grid]. Clicked off the correct number of clicks on the scope for 9 inches down and 8 inches left. Fired thirty more at 100yds. Nice group on the bullseye. The only thing I would have done differently if I had my head on straight, is brought my spotting scope and high contrast splatter targets, fired 5 shots and then make an adjustment. Fire five more and adjust. But if I had to go to the indoor range which is only 25 yds. I'd have to have calculated the hits to be 'X' inches below the bullseye for 100yd equivalent and wouldn't consider that zero 'battle tested' until I shot at an actual 100yd target.
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