Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by RickOShea » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:26 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
GP11 wrote:I want a M1A in .358 Win Mag. Not sure what I'd use it for, but I think it would handle just about anything in Alaska that needed killing.
What properties of the M1A make it a good HD rifle?
What properties of the M1A doesn't make it a good HD rifle?

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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by FelixArchon » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:45 pm

RickOShea wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
GP11 wrote:I want a M1A in .358 Win Mag. Not sure what I'd use it for, but I think it would handle just about anything in Alaska that needed killing.
What properties of the M1A make it a good HD rifle?
What properties of the M1A doesn't make it a good HD rifle?
Too big. Too long. Too heavy. And that's even before you consider extra bulk to deal with fantasy chambering. It's really not the best choice for home defense job, unless either (1) you're 6-foot-4, 240lbs of solid awesome, and can legitimately muscle it around like it's nothing, or (2) your idea of home defense is sitting in a prepared position on overwatch.

My best rifle is an M1A, and mine has all the bells and whistles about vertical handgrip, integrated rails, and so forth. Still, if I were ever forced into any sort of close-range/CQB engagement (and you'd have to force me; I have no illusions about being a door-kicker), it'd be slung in favor of a Glock.

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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by RickOShea » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:10 pm

FelixArchon wrote:
RickOShea wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
GP11 wrote:I want a M1A in .358 Win Mag. Not sure what I'd use it for, but I think it would handle just about anything in Alaska that needed killing.
What properties of the M1A make it a good HD rifle?
What properties of the M1A doesn't make it a good HD rifle?
Too big. Too long. Too heavy.
Maybe your M1A is all ^^^that^^^, but my 18" barreled folder is pretty GP.
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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by Turtlewolf » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:02 pm

Alright, Rick what in the world are the specs on the M1A? The temptation to ask was simply to much, I'm sure others are wondering as well but if not please PM me the stats?
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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by RickOShea » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:27 pm

Turtlewolf wrote:Alright, Rick what in the world are the specs on the M1A?
Let's see....

-CM Manufacturing modular stock
-Magpul MIAD grip
-ACE push button folding mechanism
-DPH skeleton stock
-Smith muzzle brake
-UltiMAK scout mount
-Gear Sector light mount & Surefire G2
-Aimpoint H-1 micro
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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:30 pm

RickOShea wrote:
Turtlewolf wrote:Alright, Rick what in the world are the specs on the M1A?
Let's see....

-CM Manufacturing modular stock
-Magpul MIAD grip
-ACE push button folding mechanism
-DPH skeleton stock
-Smith muzzle brake
-UltiMAK scout mount
-Gear Sector light mount & Surefire G2
-Aimpoint H-1 micro
In the end, did it cost more or less than a SCAR17?
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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by RickOShea » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:36 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote: In the end, did it cost more or less than a SCAR17?
What do SCAR 17s go for, $2500?.....Less.
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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:40 pm

RickOShea wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote: In the end, did it cost more or less than a SCAR17?
What do SCAR 17s go for, $2500?.....Less.
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How'd you do that? The T-1 and M1A alone should have put you at or near a two grand.
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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by FelixArchon » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:47 pm

RickOShea wrote:
FelixArchon wrote:
Too big. Too long. Too heavy.
Maybe your M1A is all ^^^that^^^, but my 18" barreled folder is pretty GP.
Fair enough.

The M1A/M14 is an excellent rifle, and there's a reason why the pros keep them in the tool box. There's also reason why the pros generally limit their use to DMR jobs, not CQB jobs. But YMMV, and if you find it works, more power to you.

ETA: In keeping with the overall theme of this thread, a scout M1A would probably be the best possible choice for the OP. So long as he was serious about cost not being an object.
Last edited by FelixArchon on Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by RickOShea » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:48 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
RickOShea wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote: In the end, did it cost more or less than a SCAR17?
What do SCAR 17s go for, $2500?.....Less.
Image
How'd you do that? The T-1 and M1A alone should have put you at or near a two grand.
Do the SCAR 17s come with an Aimpoint micro on it from the factory? :?
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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by RickOShea » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:05 pm

FelixArchon wrote:
The M1A/M14 is an excellent rifle, and there's a reason why the pros keep them in the tool box. There's also reason why the pros generally limit their use to DMR jobs, not CQB jobs. But YMMV, and if you find it works, more power to you.
Within the scope of this thread (i.e. "what the OP was inquiring about"), I would think that a sub 20" barreled .308/7.62NATO rifle would fit his bill. YMMV.


While we're at it, here's one of those .308 ARs you said never seems to work well. After 1000 rounds (of mostly surplus/cheap FMJs) I finally ran a bore snake down the barrel and wiped off the exterior of the BCG and put a little lube back on it.....500 more rounds later and still not one failure. I don't think I have enough .308/7.62NATO in my cache to make an LMT308 choke. :ooh:


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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by FelixArchon » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:36 pm

RickOShea wrote:
FelixArchon wrote:
The M1A/M14 is an excellent rifle, and there's a reason why the pros keep them in the tool box. There's also reason why the pros generally limit their use to DMR jobs, not CQB jobs. But YMMV, and if you find it works, more power to you.
Within the scope of this thread (i.e. "what the OP was inquiring about"), I would think that a sub 20" barreled .308/7.62NATO rifle would fit his bill. YMMV.
Right there with you on that. For his purposes, he won't do better than a M1A scout. He could probably do the job cheaper than an M1A scout, but he won't do better.

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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by FelixArchon » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:53 pm

RickOShea wrote:While we're at it, here's one of those .308 ARs you said never seems to work well. After 1000 rounds (of mostly surplus/cheap FMJs) I finally ran a bore snake down the barrel and wiped off the exterior of the BCG and put a little lube back on it.....500 more rounds later and still not one failure. I don't think I have enough .308/7.62NATO in my cache to make an LMT308 choke. :ooh:


Image
Nice rifle!

I'm not saying that a quality .308 AR cannot be done. It clearly can, especially if you've got an extra $3K laying around. I'm just saying that it's hard to do, and that another direction might be a better choice. If we're talking about varying mileage, I'm glad to hear you're getting that sort of reliability, to justify what I'm sure was a pretty impressive outlay.

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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by Sworbeyegib » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:09 pm

How do most semi-auto .308s do with the heavier bullet weights me may want to load up on for the bigger animal threats? Iirc, I think my reading on the m1a suggests not to punch anything past 175 grains. 180s are doable, but you can either have reliability issues, or can cause excessive wear. I only ever tend to shoot 150s and 165s out of it, so this was never a big issue.

Do the scar-H, FAL, ar-10 platforms have this recommendation too?
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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by quazi » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:46 pm

sworbeyegib wrote:How do most semi-auto .308s do with the heavier bullet weights me may want to load up on for the bigger animal threats? Iirc, I think my reading on the m1a suggests not to punch anything past 175 grains. 180s are doable, but you can either have reliability issues, or can cause excessive wear. I only ever tend to shoot 150s and 165s out of it, so this was never a big issue.

Do the scar-H, FAL, ar-10 platforms have this recommendation too?
Definitely a question that I'd like to hear the answer too. That said, with the right bullet I'd be satisfied with 150 grains.

Sounds like a 16" semi-auto .308/7.62x51 would be best as a "do everything" rifle. I'm thinking that if I go that route I'd probably go with a Saiga or Vepr, because they appear to be roughly half the cost of a FAL, AR10 or M1a.

Still thinking about maybe getting multiple firearms that fulfill more specific roles better than one that tries to do everything.

This thread has given me a lot to research.

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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by Turtlewolf » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:26 am

18" barrel and .308 seem to go pretty well together, 16" seems to produce a ton more muzzle flash with not much gain in portability and some systems run into reliabilty issues when thier piston or gas system have to be shortened to accomidate the shorter barrel.
The M1A SOCOM has had this issue.
Those two inches of barrel mean a lot when you actualy start thinking about it.
My vote goes 18" .308/7.62x51, I'ld suggest a Keltec RFB if it had a track record of any kind as bullpups have a bit of appeal where barrel length is preserved but OAL is still short, but it is an unproven entity at this point so maybe an M1A Scout (18" tube), quality AR10 (my first black rifle crush) or Imbel/DSA FAL rifle would be my first thoughts if I were in your shoes with the Vepr or Saiga running second.
Those long stroke AK gas systems, although reliable, beat the hell out of a gun in the short reciever by all the reports I've seen.
Last edited by Turtlewolf on Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by 400 Grains » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:38 pm

Turtlewolf wrote:My vote goes 18" .308/7.62x51, I'ld suggest a Keltec RFB if you had the cash but it is an unproven entity to me at this point
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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by 400 Grains » Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:43 pm

RickOShea wrote:
Turtlewolf wrote:Alright, Rick what in the world are the specs on the M1A?
Let's see....

-CM Manufacturing modular stock
-Magpul MIAD grip
-ACE push button folding mechanism
-DPH skeleton stock
-Smith muzzle brake
-UltiMAK scout mount
-Gear Sector light mount & Surefire G2
-Aimpoint H-1 micro
OK, something else you have I'm going to have to get.

I was actually just looking at stocks for my 18" M1A. Whats the weight like on that combo?

Went to CM's website, and they're backordered. Story of my life....

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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by Browning 35 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:18 pm

quazi wrote:
sworbeyegib wrote:How do most semi-auto .308s do with the heavier bullet weights me may want to load up on for the bigger animal threats? Iirc, I think my reading on the m1a suggests not to punch anything past 175 grains. 180s are doable, but you can either have reliability issues, or can cause excessive wear. I only ever tend to shoot 150s and 165s out of it, so this was never a big issue.

Do the scar-H, FAL, ar-10 platforms have this recommendation too?
Definitely a question that I'd like to hear the answer too. That said, with the right bullet I'd be satisfied with 150 grains.

Sounds like a 16" semi-auto .308/7.62x51 would be best as a "do everything" rifle. I'm thinking that if I go that route I'd probably go with a Saiga or Vepr, because they appear to be roughly half the cost of a FAL, AR10 or M1a.

Still thinking about maybe getting multiple firearms that fulfill more specific roles better than one that tries to do everything.

This thread has given me a lot to research.
Try this.

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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by RickOShea » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:12 pm

400 Grains wrote: I was actually just looking at stocks for my 18" M1A. Whats the weight like on that combo?
I get a curb weight (light & mount, red dot, sling, loaded mag) of 11lbs 12oz.

That DPH stock is solid billet, and a lot heavier than an ACE skeleton stock. But I like the balance I get with the DPH, over the lighter ACE.
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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by Turtlewolf » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:40 pm

400 Grains wrote:
Turtlewolf wrote:My vote goes 18" .308/7.62x51, I'ld suggest a Keltec RFB if you had the cash but it is an unproven entity to me at this point
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In other words I can't suggest an RFB, unproven entity, couldn't have been more clear.
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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:42 pm

Turtlewolf wrote:
400 Grains wrote:
Turtlewolf wrote:My vote goes 18" .308/7.62x51, I'ld suggest a Keltec RFB if you had the cash but it is an unproven entity to me at this point
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In other words I can't suggest an RFB, unproven entity, couldn't have been more clear.
It could have, if you hadn't said "I'd suggest an RFB"
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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by quazi » Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:41 am

Turtlewolf wrote:Those long stroke AK gas systems, although reliable, beat the hell out of a gun in the short reciever by all the reports I've seen.
So maybe a Vepr, with its heavier receiver, would be a better option than a Saiga?

I'm still researching the difference between the Vepr I, Vepr II and Super Vepr.

I found this one for a very reasonable price: http://www.classicfirearms.com/long-gun ... auto-rifle
Anything I should know? Good deals make me nervous.

It seems like most everything is out of stock. Is the panic buying bad right now?

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Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by Browning 35 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:19 am

quazi wrote:It seems like most everything is out of stock. Is the panic buying bad right now?
Seems to depend on the place. Some places are totally stripped bare and some places are pretty well stocked. It's not like in '94 or '08 when every gunstore looked like a Walmart in the Gulf with a hurricane being due the next day.

Try a gunshow. Prices might be slightly more than a few months ago, but not totally crazy either.
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Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

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