Appleseeds, experiences and questions

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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by psychomajortom » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:12 pm

Augusta, GA Appleseed July 3-4. I am registered and wanted to see if any ZS'ers were coming out for it.
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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by jeep45238 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:56 am

I don't plan on being in Georgia for an Appleseed next month, but please let us know what your experiences were after the shoot!
April 19th, 1775 - when marksmanship met history, and the heritage began. Liberty, Heritage, and Marksmanship.
Are you a Rifleman or a cook? Attend an Appleseed event and discover your heritage. http://www.appleseedinfo.org/

~Mike F.

Well I think I'm gonna reroute my trip, I wonder if anybody'd think I'd flipped if I went to L.A. via Omaha...

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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by psychomajortom » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:16 pm

OK, I shot like shit. My M&P 15-22 wasn't sighted in correctly, and it took 4 hours to get it there. By then, I was pissed and didn't shoot right. The instructors really helped, and I shot the course at my home range that night and shot a 235. I learned what i needed to learn.
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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by Night Owl » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:05 am

I have been to two appleseeds in Davilla. I highly recommend going if you have not been. I suggest making sure your rifle is zeroed and reliable with your chosen ammo. A back up rifle is a good idea also. My first shoot I had all kinds of issues with my tech sites coming loose on my 10/22. There was no time to fix them due to the way the range is run. I did not get my patch that time. My second visit with my AR with an M16A1 upper, it crapped out also. The buffer blew apart in the buffer tube during a string of fire. I got really frustrated after that and did not get my patch that time either :cry: I plan to try again later this year. Bring tools for your guns and a spare rifle if you have it you will need them.
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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by Copperhead » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:14 pm

I would like to see some appleseed (or appleseed style events) in Canada. :(
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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by WY_Not » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:12 am

Rumor has it that such a creature is in the works. Head over to the Appleseed forum, get involved, help make it happen.
Copperhead wrote:I would like to see some appleseed (or appleseed style events) in Canada. :(
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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by SOLARIX » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:53 am

:D Soooo..... Maybe I missed it but do we have a date regarding when we are all going? :D

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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by clybourn » Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:31 pm

NYTimes article on Appleseed:


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/magaz ... -t.html?hp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by jeep45238 » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:24 am

Please read our official response to the New York Times below and we invite you to help us educate anyone and everyone with these corrections.
Dear Sirs:

It is with some sadness and disappointment that we at the Appleseed Project read the New York Times article this evening. When the NYT originally asked us to host their media team in order to better understand what we do, we welcomed them. When they wanted access to our students, programs, and instructors, we acquiesced without hesitation.

We did so because we have nothing to hide and no secrets in our program. There is no reason whatsoever to restrict or fear an open and honest press.

We spoke with happiness and excitement about the stellar growth of our program over the last four years and our mission to bring every American to a greater sense of responsibility for our nation and to live out that feeling through civic involvement.

Frankly, we opened ourselves up and said our piece in trust that it would be conveyed by the press to its readers.

Sadly, today's article is not about us. It is not about the Appleseed Project. It is about militias and about anecdotal gun owners who are not members of our program. The constant focus on the militia movement, the Tea Party, and Mr. Faire are at the center of this article and as a result this article is not about us, since those things are not, and never have been the Appleseed Project.

Frankly, there are among us those who feel that we have been poorly described and treated in this article, and I will return to that point in a moment.

The real tragedy here, however, is a complete failure of the press to see the real story: Why does Appleseed double every year? Why are people of all races, genders and ideological affiliations drawn to the Appleseed Project? What is going on here?

In its rush to cover the desired story, that is, scary militia groups, the NYT simply misses what is really important. Therein lies its disservice to both its readers and our program.

Now, with respect to specific themes in the article that we feel incorrectly describe the Appleseed Project, let us simply address each in turn:

Inaccuracy #1: Appleseed is Militia

Appleseed is not a militia or interested in militia training. Appleseed teaches only in individual marksmanship skills and the history of April 19th, 1775. Appleseed does not provide training in military tactics or unit operations. Rather, Appleseed uses marksmanship as a way for modern Americans to reconnect with the Founders through a shared, traditional American skill. No more. No less. Appleseed does not see our government as an enemy or force of arms as a solution. Rather, our enemies are laziness, ignorance and apathy. Appleseed sees education and lived history as the means to get people to the real solution: Personal involvement in civic processes to ensure a better future for our nation. Our ancestors fought so that we would not have to; all we have to do is get off our couches and get involved.

Where militias offer a dark haven for people with concerns about an unwelcome future, Appleseed offers reason for hope and sees bright, happy days ahead. That is the real reason we are not a militia nor associated with any such like-thinking group.

Inaccuracy #2: Appleseed is White (and thus Racist in some fashion by extension)

Appleseed is filled with students and instructors of all races, creeds, genders, and identities. We make no distinction for color, religion, sexual preference, political beliefs or any other discriminatory category. Our program is comprised at all levels of all Americans, and we explicitly urge all Americans to come. We have no patience for those who would take this great nation and divide it up by race, or who would single out someone else for ridicule or derision. There is no place in our cadre, among our students, or at our events for those who would put petty distinctions above unity and our joint past and future.

Inaccuracy #3: Appleseed is Anti-Government, Anti-Military, Anti-Law Enforcement

Appleseed is not anti-government, anti-military, or anti-law enforcement. Among our volunteers are people who work in law enforcement, the military, the government and nearly every civilian trade. We teach students who work in law enforcement, the military, the government, and any civilian occupation precisely because we are all Americans and inheritors of the same heritage and history. And together we must make our joint future.

Appleseed has zero tolerance for anti-government, anti-military, or anti-law enforcement attitudes, comments or advocates. To the contrary, we offer free spots on our shooting lines for active duty military personnel and have been called onto military bases to teach troops deploying for overseas duty in combat theaters. Elected officials at any level of government are invited to participate in Appleseed without charge. Finally, it is our goal to get each and every participant involved in the body politic, which means we are always clear that we hold our government, the government given us by the Founders, in the highest regard.

Soldiers, police officers, and government officials are not our enemies. They are our neighbors, friends, and protectors. At Appleseeds they are our honored guests.

Inaccuracy #4: Appleseed is Right Wing


Appleseed is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization with no interest in partisan politics. Appleseed volunteers and students come from all political parties, economic classes, and ideologies. We have no place for left wing, right wing, or any "wings" at all. Our program could not function that way, nor do we want it to.

Our only interest in politics is with the political details that led to and followed from the events of April 19th, 1775. From our retelling of those events we find that students are often motivated to move into civic involvement themselves. We do not frame the prospective involvement of our students and look forward to the day when we see two Appleseed graduates from opposite sides of the political spectrum running against each other in a national election.

Our goal is civic involvement across the ideological spectrum.

Inaccuracy #5: Appleseed has a Secret Plan


We wish we had a Secret Plan to get more people involved but we don't. There is no inner group, no special level, no wizard behind the curtain. There is only this: Our ancestors were left with two paths: submission or bloodshed. They chose the latter so that we could be left with a third path: citizenship and civic participation. To take this third path we must get off the couch, turn off the TV, and get involved in our communities. Those who would blather about a "choice" between submission and bloodshed in modern American do not understand what American was meant to be, or is.

Civic participation is not our secret plan. It is our openly stated mission.

In conclusion, it is my hope that the NYT and its readers continue their search for authentic information about the Appleseed Project so that they learn for themselves exactly what the Appleseed Project is, and what it seeks to create: a more active body politic. The current article is simply woefully lacking in that regard.

If anyone has any interest in continuing this conversation or attending an event, please be sure to contact us through our website http://www.appleseedinfo.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; or via our email info@appleseedinfo.org and we will be happy to meet you.

We are open to all inquiries and harbor no ill-will toward the NYT or the author. We are certain that what lies behind this unfortunate description of our program is a deep-seated concern about firearms, marksmanship training and heritage programs. It is our stated mission to change that through the hard work of education and apparently we are right where we need to be.

Thank you for your time, and thanks to your readership as well,


The Appleseed Project
National Branch
April 19th, 1775 - when marksmanship met history, and the heritage began. Liberty, Heritage, and Marksmanship.
Are you a Rifleman or a cook? Attend an Appleseed event and discover your heritage. http://www.appleseedinfo.org/

~Mike F.

Well I think I'm gonna reroute my trip, I wonder if anybody'd think I'd flipped if I went to L.A. via Omaha...

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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by Rev » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:34 am

Interesting.
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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by ninja-elbow » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:56 pm

*on soapbox*

If anything, the NYT article has forced my hand to go to one for I am none of the things the article eludes to or tries to spotlight as attendees of an Appleseed.

*off soapbox*

I plan to go to the Oregon one on the weekend of Sept 11-12. Unfortunately I just remembered my significant other's B-day is that same weekend. She cannot go (but would like to in the future) but said I could go if I want and we will do something later for her. I have decided to go one day as opposed to 2 days.

What, if anything, would I be missing or should I expect if I go one day as opposed to 2? Thanks in advance. :)
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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by jeep45238 » Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:34 pm

Go on a Saturday. Saturday is the primary skill teaching day, and Sunday is polishing/drill drill drill day.

Just remind your significant other that she can attend for free ninja-elbow ;)
April 19th, 1775 - when marksmanship met history, and the heritage began. Liberty, Heritage, and Marksmanship.
Are you a Rifleman or a cook? Attend an Appleseed event and discover your heritage. http://www.appleseedinfo.org/

~Mike F.

Well I think I'm gonna reroute my trip, I wonder if anybody'd think I'd flipped if I went to L.A. via Omaha...

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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by ninja-elbow » Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:55 pm

jeep45238 wrote:Go on a Saturday. Saturday is the primary skill teaching day, and Sunday is polishing/drill drill drill day.

Just remind your significant other that she can attend for free ninja-elbow ;)
Thanks, I did remind her but she kind of wants special time and not shooting time for her B-day :P
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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by WY_Not » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:25 am

So give her both. Take her to the range for the weekend then go do something really nice on another evening/weekend. :wink:
ninja-elbow wrote:
jeep45238 wrote:Go on a Saturday. Saturday is the primary skill teaching day, and Sunday is polishing/drill drill drill day.

Just remind your significant other that she can attend for free ninja-elbow ;)
Thanks, I did remind her but she kind of wants special time and not shooting time for her B-day :P
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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by ninja-elbow » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:26 pm

OK. I'll see what I can do. The mission has begun. I'll have to buy her a 10/22 first. :twisted:

ETA: or buy me one and hang on to it until she feels ready to take it over.
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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by ozwyn » Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:25 pm

Anything about firearms that is hated by the New York Times, well.. NYT hate is practically a product endorsement give the anti-gun rights spin of that paper.
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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by 423aaron » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:30 am

ninja-elbow wrote:OK. I'll see what I can do. The mission has begun. I'll have to buy her a 10/22 first. :twisted:

ETA: or buy me one and hang on to it until she feels ready to take it over.
I'll +1 going on Sat if you can only go to one day.

Take care to not let your wife think the rifle is her B-day present from you unless she is REALY wired like that. Guys do allot to sabotage their wives interest in firearms/preparing this way.
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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by Chef » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:19 pm

I'm not sure how the inability to aim implies skill with food. As someone who is both a shooter and a dedicated culinary professional, I find the use of "cook" as a perjorative somewhat off-putting.

It's sort of like they're using "cook" as a code word for "sissy," and I resent it enough to type out this comment on the internet. :lol:
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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by JTNieman » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:38 pm

Chef wrote:I'm not sure how the inability to aim implies skill with food. As someone who is both a shooter and a dedicated culinary professional, I find the use of "cook" as a perjorative somewhat off-putting.

It's sort of like they're using "cook" as a code word for "sissy," and I resent it enough to type out this comment on the internet. :lol:
They're using it because it's something a non-combatant can do and not kill people if they suck at it. If they suck at it, they just make enemies, but people still get fed. Shitty, runny eggs, or shitty overcooked eggs, but still fed.

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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by Chef » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:53 pm

it's something a non-combatant can do and not kill people if they suck at it
That's not 100% correct. :wink:
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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by jeep45238 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:38 pm

Chef wrote: That's not 100% correct. :wink:
Bingo.

Speaking from stories from my grandfather from WWII though, they generally put the worst shots on food service in his unit. The logic was put the best shots together, and they will stand a better chance at living another day. They still need to eat though :)
April 19th, 1775 - when marksmanship met history, and the heritage began. Liberty, Heritage, and Marksmanship.
Are you a Rifleman or a cook? Attend an Appleseed event and discover your heritage. http://www.appleseedinfo.org/

~Mike F.

Well I think I'm gonna reroute my trip, I wonder if anybody'd think I'd flipped if I went to L.A. via Omaha...

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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by jeep45238 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:47 am

http://www.downrange.tv/podcast.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SHOW #172: 08/04/2010

It starts right before 18 minutes


Michael Bane has done a podcast about the NYT article, and actually went into the background WHY it was slanted, instead of just yelling "biased"!!!
April 19th, 1775 - when marksmanship met history, and the heritage began. Liberty, Heritage, and Marksmanship.
Are you a Rifleman or a cook? Attend an Appleseed event and discover your heritage. http://www.appleseedinfo.org/

~Mike F.

Well I think I'm gonna reroute my trip, I wonder if anybody'd think I'd flipped if I went to L.A. via Omaha...

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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by ninja-elbow » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:22 pm

Here is how it turns out for me and my SO:

I am registered for both Saturday and Sunday. Gretchen is registered for Sunday only as she has to work on Saturday and I hope she can get some basics in while others drill drill drill. Since it is free for her it'd be OK if instructors were not able to attend to her on Sunday. I will ask them via e-mail though just to see if there will be an instructor to help her out as she has shot a rifle once in her life and that was at Summergeddon 2 weeks ago. So... NE for full weekend and Gretchen on Sunday only.

I head out Sat, get done, head back in and we go to her B-Day dinner and such. Sunday we head out together.

I am buying another 10/22 for myself that she may borrow for Appleseed.

Also, happy to be a part of the "300" thingy that weekend. :) ETA: Just realized it is only in Illinois that weekend. I'll be there in spirit! (and in Boring, OR).
Last edited by ninja-elbow on Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Appleseeds, experiences and questions

Post by Wrangler » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:40 pm

I'm going to be shooting in the 300 event as well. Signed up to attend the Waterman IL shoot. Anyone else going?
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