There are No Rules in a Gunfight

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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by moab » Wed May 15, 2019 9:02 pm

NT2C wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:50 pm
#24 there... my buddy's .357 might disagree with that.
Ya. It's not a perfect list. Some of it is simply for dramatic effect. I think it was Mark Twain that said "Don't let the truth get in the way of good story."? lol.

I think the point is if you have the choice between a .357 and something that starts with a "4". Your better off with the one that starts with a "4". ;)

There's some wisdom in there to though. I like the common sense ones that sometimes escape people. Like "6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.". I also imagine Sam Elliott saying it aloud. In that slow. "Listen to me dumbshit." Way he has about him. LMAO!!! It's also a great conversation starter. Depending on who walks into your office. ;)
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by JF89 » Wed May 15, 2019 11:45 pm

moab wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:02 pm
NT2C wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:50 pm
#24 there... my buddy's .357 might disagree with that.
Ya. It's not a perfect list. Some of it is simply for dramatic effect. I think it was Mark Twain that said "Don't let the truth get in the way of good story."? lol.

I think the point is if you have the choice between a .357 and something that starts with a "4". Your better off with the one that starts with a "4". ;)

There's some wisdom in there to though. I like the common sense ones that sometimes escape people. Like "6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.". I also imagine Sam Elliott saying it aloud. In that slow. "Listen to me dumbshit." Way he has about him. LMAO!!! It's also a great conversation starter. Depending on who walks into your office. ;)
Its more a matter of opinion. Pat McNamara and Paul Howe are two legitimate "gunfighters" that come to mind who prefer 9mm then theres LV, Travis Haley,Kyle Lamb and whole lot of legit guys who like smaller caliber higher capacity firearms . I dont buy into caliber wars though and in terms of shooting people I would take a 9mm over a .45 so would most of the instructors ive trained under, ymmv.

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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by JF89 » Wed May 15, 2019 11:47 pm

I am kind of bias though. 9mm, .357 mag and 10mm are my favorite handgun rounds. I like .45 acp too but I shoot the others more. Might try .44 mag next.

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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by NT2C » Thu May 16, 2019 12:44 am

moab wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:02 pm
NT2C wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:50 pm
#24 there... my buddy's .357 might disagree with that.
Ya. It's not a perfect list. Some of it is simply for dramatic effect. I think it was Mark Twain that said "Don't let the truth get in the way of good story."? lol.

I think the point is if you have the choice between a .357 and something that starts with a "4". Your better off with the one that starts with a "4". ;)
Well, at least it's good to know I'll be better armed than my buddy, with my 4.25mm Liliput pistol. :crazy:

Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto

Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who would pervert the Constitution. - A. Lincoln

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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by moab » Thu May 16, 2019 10:54 am

JF89 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 11:45 pm
moab wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:02 pm
NT2C wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:50 pm
#24 there... my buddy's .357 might disagree with that.
Ya. It's not a perfect list. Some of it is simply for dramatic effect. I think it was Mark Twain that said "Don't let the truth get in the way of good story."? lol.

I think the point is if you have the choice between a .357 and something that starts with a "4". Your better off with the one that starts with a "4". ;)

There's some wisdom in there to though. I like the common sense ones that sometimes escape people. Like "6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.". I also imagine Sam Elliott saying it aloud. In that slow. "Listen to me dumbshit." Way he has about him. LMAO!!! It's also a great conversation starter. Depending on who walks into your office. ;)
Its more a matter of opinion. Pat McNamara and Paul Howe are two legitimate "gunfighters" that come to mind who prefer 9mm then theres LV, Travis Haley,Kyle Lamb and whole lot of legit guys who like smaller caliber higher capacity firearms . I dont buy into caliber wars though and in terms of shooting people I would take a 9mm over a .45 so would most of the instructors ive trained under, ymmv.
Oh. I agree. I carry a Glock .357 SIG. lol. Not by choice. It was given to me. But I'd like to convert it to 9mm soon. Love me some Pat McNamara! Did you see his JRE episode? JRE = Joe Rogan Experience. Great episode.

I think the "4" thing is the John Wayne part. ;) Read with his voice in your head. It will crack you up.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by JF89 » Thu May 16, 2019 10:58 pm

moab wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:54 am
JF89 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 11:45 pm
moab wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:02 pm
NT2C wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:50 pm
#24 there... my buddy's .357 might disagree with that.
Ya. It's not a perfect list. Some of it is simply for dramatic effect. I think it was Mark Twain that said "Don't let the truth get in the way of good story."? lol.

I think the point is if you have the choice between a .357 and something that starts with a "4". Your better off with the one that starts with a "4". ;)

There's some wisdom in there to though. I like the common sense ones that sometimes escape people. Like "6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.". I also imagine Sam Elliott saying it aloud. In that slow. "Listen to me dumbshit." Way he has about him. LMAO!!! It's also a great conversation starter. Depending on who walks into your office. ;)
Its more a matter of opinion. Pat McNamara and Paul Howe are two legitimate "gunfighters" that come to mind who prefer 9mm then theres LV, Travis Haley,Kyle Lamb and whole lot of legit guys who like smaller caliber higher capacity firearms . I dont buy into caliber wars though and in terms of shooting people I would take a 9mm over a .45 so would most of the instructors ive trained under, ymmv.
Oh. I agree. I carry a Glock .357 SIG. lol. Not by choice. It was given to me. But I'd like to convert it to 9mm soon. Love me some Pat McNamara! Did you see his JRE episode? JRE = Joe Rogan Experience. Great episode.

I think the "4" thing is the John Wayne part. ;) Read with his voice in your head. It will crack you up.
I havnt seen that yet but I will look it up.
Here is an article where he goes over 9mm vs .45 , AK vs AR etc. Pretty good read.

https://www.arbuildjunkie.com/pat-mcnam ... ing-ar-15/

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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by NT2C » Thu May 16, 2019 11:35 pm

JF89 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:58 pm
moab wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:54 am
JF89 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 11:45 pm
moab wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:02 pm


Ya. It's not a perfect list. Some of it is simply for dramatic effect. I think it was Mark Twain that said "Don't let the truth get in the way of good story."? lol.

I think the point is if you have the choice between a .357 and something that starts with a "4". Your better off with the one that starts with a "4". ;)

There's some wisdom in there to though. I like the common sense ones that sometimes escape people. Like "6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.". I also imagine Sam Elliott saying it aloud. In that slow. "Listen to me dumbshit." Way he has about him. LMAO!!! It's also a great conversation starter. Depending on who walks into your office. ;)
Its more a matter of opinion. Pat McNamara and Paul Howe are two legitimate "gunfighters" that come to mind who prefer 9mm then theres LV, Travis Haley,Kyle Lamb and whole lot of legit guys who like smaller caliber higher capacity firearms . I dont buy into caliber wars though and in terms of shooting people I would take a 9mm over a .45 so would most of the instructors ive trained under, ymmv.
Oh. I agree. I carry a Glock .357 SIG. lol. Not by choice. It was given to me. But I'd like to convert it to 9mm soon. Love me some Pat McNamara! Did you see his JRE episode? JRE = Joe Rogan Experience. Great episode.

I think the "4" thing is the John Wayne part. ;) Read with his voice in your head. It will crack you up.
I havnt seen that yet but I will look it up.
Here is an article where he goes over 9mm vs .45 , AK vs AR etc. Pretty good read.

https://www.arbuildjunkie.com/pat-mcnam ... ing-ar-15/
I'm not seeing anything in that article about either. Are you sure you linked to the right one?
Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto

Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who would pervert the Constitution. - A. Lincoln

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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by JF89 » Fri May 17, 2019 8:49 am

NT2C wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:35 pm
JF89 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:58 pm
moab wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:54 am
JF89 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 11:45 pm


Its more a matter of opinion. Pat McNamara and Paul Howe are two legitimate "gunfighters" that come to mind who prefer 9mm then theres LV, Travis Haley,Kyle Lamb and whole lot of legit guys who like smaller caliber higher capacity firearms . I dont buy into caliber wars though and in terms of shooting people I would take a 9mm over a .45 so would most of the instructors ive trained under, ymmv.
Oh. I agree. I carry a Glock .357 SIG. lol. Not by choice. It was given to me. But I'd like to convert it to 9mm soon. Love me some Pat McNamara! Did you see his JRE episode? JRE = Joe Rogan Experience. Great episode.

I think the "4" thing is the John Wayne part. ;) Read with his voice in your head. It will crack you up.
I havnt seen that yet but I will look it up.
Here is an article where he goes over 9mm vs .45 , AK vs AR etc. Pretty good read.

https://www.arbuildjunkie.com/pat-mcnam ... ing-ar-15/
I'm not seeing anything in that article about either. Are you sure you linked to the right one?

I linked the wrong one, my bad.

Heres the one I was talking about

https://www.wearethemighty.com/fitness/ ... t-mcnamara

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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by JF89 » Fri May 17, 2019 3:42 pm

moab wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:54 am
JF89 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 11:45 pm
moab wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:02 pm
NT2C wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:50 pm
#24 there... my buddy's .357 might disagree with that.
Ya. It's not a perfect list. Some of it is simply for dramatic effect. I think it was Mark Twain that said "Don't let the truth get in the way of good story."? lol.

I think the point is if you have the choice between a .357 and something that starts with a "4". Your better off with the one that starts with a "4". ;)

There's some wisdom in there to though. I like the common sense ones that sometimes escape people. Like "6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.". I also imagine Sam Elliott saying it aloud. In that slow. "Listen to me dumbshit." Way he has about him. LMAO!!! It's also a great conversation starter. Depending on who walks into your office. ;)
Its more a matter of opinion. Pat McNamara and Paul Howe are two legitimate "gunfighters" that come to mind who prefer 9mm then theres LV, Travis Haley,Kyle Lamb and whole lot of legit guys who like smaller caliber higher capacity firearms . I dont buy into caliber wars though and in terms of shooting people I would take a 9mm over a .45 so would most of the instructors ive trained under, ymmv.
Oh. I agree. I carry a Glock .357 SIG. lol. Not by choice. It was given to me. But I'd like to convert it to 9mm soon. Love me some Pat McNamara! Did you see his JRE episode? JRE = Joe Rogan Experience. Great episode.

I think the "4" thing is the John Wayne part. ;) Read with his voice in your head. It will crack you up.
Good stuff!!

https://youtu.be/RMw8u0VrELs

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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by lailr » Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:19 pm

A post gun-fight rule, I think, from a litigation stance, is after the scene is clear and safe, is to render aid. It seems counter intuitive to try and save the guy you just shot, but will reflect well your intentions. We are talking, of course, about everyday life when everyone's smiling, and the suns shining, not Thunderdome.

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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by -----P----- » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:45 am

I know this is an older thread, but I'd like to add some rules for a gunfight that I've learned over the years. Please keep in mind that this is from a force protection point of view rather than what people would usually think would be a military perspective on gun fighting. They were taught from the perspective of defending the ship or base and her people from outside threats.

1-4: Basic Gun Safety rules.

5: Mindset. Put your gun on with the knowledge that there is a possibility, however remote, that you will have to use it on another human being in defense of your own life. If you're not prepared for this, you shouldn't be carrying a gun. Stay aware of your surroundings and be running through "what if" scenarios in your mind. What would you do if someone came out of the alley up ahead to take your stuff at knifepoint, what if that guy over there pulls a gun on you, etc.

6: Know your deadly force triangle and let it be your guide. Justification for the employment of deadly force means that whomever you believe poses a lethal threat to you has the Opportunity, Capability, and Intent to inflict that harm. The guy with a knife saying he's going to kill you while he's standing behind the fence may have Capability and Intent, but he doesn't have Opportunity. The guy walking down the other side of the street with a rifle on his back certainly has Opportunity and Capability to inflict lethal harm on you, but he hasn't demonstrated Intent. And so on.

7: Just because you've pulled your gun out of the holster doesn't mean you have to shoot it. By no means expect your weapon to be a magic talisman that will ward off evil, but realize that some threats may well be deterred by the sight of it.

8: If forced to engage the threat, continue engaging until they are no longer a threat. Shoot until they are on the ground, shoot until they decide they've had enough and disengage. It may take one round or it may take every round you have. Do not continue engagement after they are no longer a threat.

9: Bullets are like words. Once spoken/fired, they can never be taken back and you own every one of them. This ties into Rule #2, Never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to destroy. Never shoot at a target if you are unsure of it or what is beyond it.

10: If you are justified to shoot someone to wound them, you're justified to shoot to kill them. Don't try to aim for areas like the arms or legs in an effort to wound your threat. You're in reasonable fear for your life. Engage the threat as such.

10.5: Shot placement matters. Shooting someone in the head may be necessary due to wearing body armor, not responding to rounds fired elsewhere, etc. This ties into rule #9. Be prepared to explain why you shot your threat where you did.

11: Action beats reaction. If it is a defensive shooting, you have already lost the initiative. Your object is to take the initiative back.

12: Mindset again. You're in a fight for your life. Go into it with the mindset that you are going to win by whatever means necessary. When I was in training, one of the instructors quoted an old Army study that found that fatally wounded soldiers were able to continue engaging the enemy for an average of 120 seconds before they died (Haven't been able to find that study since). Fight until the threat is over or until you have been incapacitated and cannot continue. Fight to win.

13: Never assume that the threat you see is the only one. Engage your threat and scan to see if there are others once it has been ended.

14: When it's over, render aid if possible. As lailr said, this may seem counterintuitive but it will hopefully go to show that your intent was not simply to kill the person that was trying to kill you. Be prepared to justify all of your actions.

These aren't set in stone rules to follow. These are the things that I keep in mind whenever I arm up to stand my post or whenever I strap on my CCW to go to the store. The last thing I'll mention is the time honored cliche of "train the way you fight, because you'll fight the way you've trained."
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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by drop bear » Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:37 am

Wouldn't you engage to find cover or escape?

Not engage to finish the guy you are shooting at?

I mean who cares if you get him or not. Or if he takes an extra twenty seconds to die.

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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by -----P----- » Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:00 pm

Edit: original post didn't make much sense to me after I posted it.

In regards to cover, yes. That was a tactical aspect that I didn't include. For the situations these were taught to me for, escape isn't an option because you're opening up the things you're defending to further attack. When you say "who cares if you get him or not," am I to assume that means I am to leave whatever I am defending behind to pursue someone retreating to make sure I finish the job? Seems a little difficult to justify.

Engaging to finish means engaging until the threat is no longer a threat. A couple scenarios I like to keep in mind.

-In the course of being attacked (front gate, entry control point, parking lot at night) you engage your threat. They go down, losing their weapon and will to fight in the process. They're not dead, and they're not a threat anymore. Am I justified to keep engaging them until they're dead?

-Small craft attack, no visible weapons on deck. You engage and disable the small craft. They're adrift and on fire, no longer able to continue their inbound course that made them a threat in the first place. Are you justified to continue pouring rounds into the boat because you started engagement and they're still in the threat zone?

My defense scenarios are oriented towards situations I'm likely to encounter, in daily off duty life or tied up to the pier stateside. ZPAW would call for different approaches.
No one can tell what goes on in between the person you were and the person you become. No one can chart that blue and lonely section of hell. There are no maps of the change. You just … come out the other side. -Stephen King, The Stand

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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by NT2C » Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:55 pm

Gents, this discussion is just a hair away from being closed down for violation of one of the sites most rigorously enforced rules: discussion of illegal activities. I would suggest not going any further down that road.
Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto

Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who would pervert the Constitution. - A. Lincoln

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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by drop bear » Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:17 pm

-----P----- wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:00 pm
Edit: original post didn't make much sense to me after I posted it.

In regards to cover, yes. That was a tactical aspect that I didn't include. For the situations these were taught to me for, escape isn't an option because you're opening up the things you're defending to further attack. When you say "who cares if you get him or not," am I to assume that means I am to leave whatever I am defending behind to pursue someone retreating to make sure I finish the job? Seems a little difficult to justify.

Engaging to finish means engaging until the threat is no longer a threat. A couple scenarios I like to keep in mind.

-In the course of being attacked (front gate, entry control point, parking lot at night) you engage your threat. They go down, losing their weapon and will to fight in the process. They're not dead, and they're not a threat anymore. Am I justified to keep engaging them until they're dead?

-Small craft attack, no visible weapons on deck. You engage and disable the small craft. They're adrift and on fire, no longer able to continue their inbound course that made them a threat in the first place. Are you justified to continue pouring rounds into the boat because you started engagement and they're still in the threat zone?

My defense scenarios are oriented towards situations I'm likely to encounter, in daily off duty life or tied up to the pier stateside. ZPAW would call for different approaches.
I was thinking along the lines of put a couple of bullets their way and then just leave. Or hide and call the cops.

I assume every time you stick your head out to shoot you can get shot. And every second longer your head is out you can get shot.

So say you get in to a Mexican stand off and you either fire two shots and run or fire ten and make sure the guy is down.

In the space of those other 8 shots I assume he is shooting back. And hooray you might kill him but boo you might have some unwanted bullets in you.

I can see why cops or soldiers might do it. But for your average guy. I am not sure why it would matter.

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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by delarey » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:05 am

drop bear wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:17 pm
I was thinking along the lines of put a couple of bullets their way and then just leave. Or hide and call the cops.

I assume every time you stick your head out to shoot you can get shot. And every second longer your head is out you can get shot.

So say you get in to a Mexican stand off and you either fire two shots and run or fire ten and make sure the guy is down.

In the space of those other 8 shots I assume he is shooting back. And hooray you might kill him but boo you might have some unwanted bullets in you.

I can see why cops or soldiers might do it. But for your average guy. I am not sure why it would matter.
If you are on your own property or in your home and you encounter an intruder, you cannot risk simply firing off a few shots and hiding. If someone is on your property with evil intent, he is hunting. You are the prey.
From personal experience, once you commit to the fight in a situation like that, you finish the fight or die.
Dynamics are different if you are not on your own property. Every situation is different.

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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by drop bear » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:52 am

delarey wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:05 am
drop bear wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:17 pm
I was thinking along the lines of put a couple of bullets their way and then just leave. Or hide and call the cops.

I assume every time you stick your head out to shoot you can get shot. And every second longer your head is out you can get shot.

So say you get in to a Mexican stand off and you either fire two shots and run or fire ten and make sure the guy is down.

In the space of those other 8 shots I assume he is shooting back. And hooray you might kill him but boo you might have some unwanted bullets in you.

I can see why cops or soldiers might do it. But for your average guy. I am not sure why it would matter.
If you are on your own property or in your home and you encounter an intruder, you cannot risk simply firing off a few shots and hiding. If someone is on your property with evil intent, he is hunting. You are the prey.
From personal experience, once you commit to the fight in a situation like that, you finish the fight or die.
Dynamics are different if you are not on your own property. Every situation is different.
You have been in a gun fight on your own property?

What. During the purge?

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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by woodsghost » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:15 am

drop bear wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:52 am
delarey wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:05 am
drop bear wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:17 pm
I was thinking along the lines of put a couple of bullets their way and then just leave. Or hide and call the cops.

I assume every time you stick your head out to shoot you can get shot. And every second longer your head is out you can get shot.

So say you get in to a Mexican stand off and you either fire two shots and run or fire ten and make sure the guy is down.

In the space of those other 8 shots I assume he is shooting back. And hooray you might kill him but boo you might have some unwanted bullets in you.

I can see why cops or soldiers might do it. But for your average guy. I am not sure why it would matter.
If you are on your own property or in your home and you encounter an intruder, you cannot risk simply firing off a few shots and hiding. If someone is on your property with evil intent, he is hunting. You are the prey.
From personal experience, once you commit to the fight in a situation like that, you finish the fight or die.
Dynamics are different if you are not on your own property. Every situation is different.
You have been in a gun fight on your own property?

What. During the purge?
It might be helpful to look up the experiences of farmers in South Africa and those who wish to kill them.

And if you look around the world currently and look at history you will find South Africa is not the only place people have had these experiences.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by delarey » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:40 am

drop bear wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:52 am
delarey wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:05 am
drop bear wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:17 pm
I was thinking along the lines of put a couple of bullets their way and then just leave. Or hide and call the cops.

I assume every time you stick your head out to shoot you can get shot. And every second longer your head is out you can get shot.

So say you get in to a Mexican stand off and you either fire two shots and run or fire ten and make sure the guy is down.

In the space of those other 8 shots I assume he is shooting back. And hooray you might kill him but boo you might have some unwanted bullets in you.

I can see why cops or soldiers might do it. But for your average guy. I am not sure why it would matter.
If you are on your own property or in your home and you encounter an intruder, you cannot risk simply firing off a few shots and hiding. If someone is on your property with evil intent, he is hunting. You are the prey.
From personal experience, once you commit to the fight in a situation like that, you finish the fight or die.
Dynamics are different if you are not on your own property. Every situation is different.
You have been in a gun fight on your own property?

What. During the purge?
Yes I have. On my own property, in my car on the street and at an ATM.

delarey
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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by delarey » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:42 am

woodsghost wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:15 am
It might be helpful to look up the experiences of farmers in South Africa and those who wish to kill them.

And if you look around the world currently and look at history you will find South Africa is not the only place people have had these experiences.
True. And based on events of the past few years, I can tell you that we are not far off from the same happening here in America - unless we somehow change the course of this ship. What I'm seeing here now, is exactly what I experienced in the late 80's and early 90's in South Africa. Prepare accordingly.

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woodsghost
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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by woodsghost » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:05 am

delarey wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:42 am
woodsghost wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:15 am
It might be helpful to look up the experiences of farmers in South Africa and those who wish to kill them.

And if you look around the world currently and look at history you will find South Africa is not the only place people have had these experiences.
True. And based on events of the past few years, I can tell you that we are not far off from the same happening here in America - unless we somehow change the course of this ship. What I'm seeing here now, is exactly what I experienced in the late 80's and early 90's in South Africa. Prepare accordingly.
Sad to hear. Thank you for the heads up. That is meaningful information.


@Drop Bear: it is also helpful to look at the experiences of farmers in Venezuela. There is not the racial hatred (to the best of my knowledge), but criminal predation of rural farms was/is equally deadly.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

delarey
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Re: There are No Rules in a Gunfight

Post by delarey » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:46 am

woodsghost wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:05 am

Sad to hear. Thank you for the heads up. That is meaningful information.


@Drop Bear: it is also helpful to look at the experiences of farmers in Venezuela. There is not the racial hatred (to the best of my knowledge), but criminal predation of rural farms was/is equally deadly.
I've heard via some old connections in SA about the attacks on farms in VZ. From what I've been told the trend is spreading to other countries in the region. Columbia has seen some farms attacked, but mostly in the border areas.

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