It is currently Sat May 26, 2018 10:15 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:44 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:33 pm
Posts: 292
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times
I've been thinking for a while as I slowly build up my ammo stock pile. What I am thinking is that a pistol would be far superior to a rifle in a big out where you had to travel on foot for a long distance.

Forgetting the pros to having a rifle I want to point out my thought process as far as going pistol only.

1 more compact

2 easy to conceal

3 generally cheaper for a quality handgun

4 ammo is cheaper depending on caliber

5 if you choose a large caliber for example a 10mm it can also serve as a decent hunting round as long as you are proficient with it.

6 on the other end of the spectrum a .22 can also be a decent hunting round for small game.

7 significantly lighter than a rifle. For example my Glock 34 with 5 loaded mags is lighter than my AR empty

If you on the move on foot I truly think a pistol is the way to go. Even 2 pistols. A 22 for hunting small game and a larger caliber for self defense would still be lighter and more compact than one rifle.

This is just my train of thought you can agree or disagree.

There are many merits to a rifle the primary benefit being long range accuracy.

Most who plan on bugging out intend to drive as far as they can. If that's the case we all know we will be fully loaded. However should the worst happen it is wise to have a plan based on the situation. How far you still have to go. The event that caused you to bug out. Potential dangers.

Everything is situational.


Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:59 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:20 pm
Posts: 447
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 32 times
Everything you said is pretty much accurate, but I feel like response refuting your claim are going to have a general theme, so I will post the TLDR response:

"Don't bring a pistol to a rifle fight"

--------

Apart from that, as you mentioned, the hunting capability of most any pistol is drastically inferior to most any rifle. In a bug out situation, depending on the nature and duration, could be a very serious concern. A pistol loaded out for hunting isn't always a very good defense weapon, either. Or the most concealable or cheapest option.

_________________
Batman has a pretty good EDC. - Purple_Mutant


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:31 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:33 pm
Posts: 292
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times
To add onto the pistol as a primary a Glock 20 10mm is actually an effective Hunting pistol. Especially with the new MOS line (I can't justify the cost to RMR a pistol) but it would be a very decent pick.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:31 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:33 pm
Posts: 292
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times
If funds weren't an issue I'd definitely get a Glock 20 mos with the dual illuminated trijicon RMR and a few thousand rounds of 10mm


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:01 pm 
Offline
*
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:05 pm
Posts: 53
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 14 times
Most of your logic is sound. Most intelligent thought on the subject concludes that a pistol is superior to a rifle in home defense and bug out scenarios because it's concealable, portable, maneuverable and can be operated one handed.

Most of the reasons that are commonly cited for choosing a rifle (range and accuracy) are immature and fanciful. There is no legal justification to be taking 100+ yard precision shots in any remotely realistic defensive scenario.

However, I'd seriously reconsider any notions of relying on hunting into your survival/bug out plan. Unless you're a skilled and seasoned hunter in a very remote and well stocked area, it's just not realistically feasible. The VAST majority of recreational or inexperienced hunters don't have the skillset required to sustain themselves by hunting, and the vast majority of the US doesn't have the wildlife stocks to support sustained hunting.

Unless it's something that you already do and rely on regularly, don't plan on relying on it when SHTF.

Forget the 10mm and the 22LR, just buy a good reliable pistol in a defensive caliber (9mm) and learn how to shoot it well.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:29 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:55 pm
Posts: 1856
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 90 times
Everything you said is logical...and as others have stated, running around with an AR in a most likely BO situation will only land you in trouble. Where they do excel in purpose is in sentry/gaurd duty, such as a large scale BO/SHTF event, where you may actually have to pull "Guard Duty". I'd rather guard the entrance to a bug-out compound with an AR than with a pistol. But, bugging out, on the move, I'm taking my pistols...and my new Chiappia Little Badger .22LR Survival Rifle :D

_________________
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts..."
http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=94046&p=2141127&hilit=survival+bow#p2141127

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:17 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:49 am
Posts: 2016
Location: Yo Momma's House
Has thanked: 331 times
Been thanked: 277 times
I actually was just thinking of this today (pistol range day and organizing ammo day) and I will agree with everyone above.

For most "real world" bug outs... ones that don't involve total collapse or the cannibal undead or aliens... a pistol will be ideal as a gun will be used for defense at short ranges against things like muggings/robbery while being light and concealable.

I even thought about what was mentioned about having 2 handguns... a 9mm or .45 semiauto for defense and my Ruger BH for hunting, but even that will probably be overpacking. I don't plan on hunting if I'm bugging out on foot.

In the end, in the rare event that I ever have to bug out, I will probably grab my favorite auto pistol and a few magazines and that's it... unless those pesky martians try to take me again, then it's rifle season

_________________
They see me trollin', they hatin'.... keyboardin' tryna catch me typin' dirty
Halfapint wrote:
There are some exceptions like myself and jeepercreeper.... but we are the forum asshats. We protect our positions with gusto
zero11010 wrote:
The girlfriend is a good shot with a 10/22.
Her secondary offense will be nagging.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:31 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:33 pm
Posts: 292
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times
I don't have the experience pistol hunting. However I will stick with my Glock 34 and a few mags. It's accurate and reliable. That's what counts. I can't see myself needing my rifle for bugging out. But I still have it. I also have a Glock 19 should I need deep concealment but I've found I can conceal the 34 easily enough.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:24 am 
Offline
* * *

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:24 pm
Posts: 586
Has thanked: 100 times
Been thanked: 98 times
I agree with this.

A pistol is clearly an effective tool for self defense.

People have hunted for thousands of years with less powerful things than a pistol. People hunted just fine with a bow and arrow, a thrown spear, or at atlatl. Hunting with a pistol wouldn't be as easy as hunting with a high powered rifle and long range scope, but it can be done.


I'm going to reiterate that I agree with the notion of using a pistol as a primary weapon. Not saying that I think it's the best possible thing anyone might be able to use, just that it is capable of being functional (sorry, trying to be careful with my wording, some other threads have gotten out of hand).


Another important factor to consider will be the size and weight of the ammo. The 9mm for that G34 will be pretty compact and lightweight. Moving to larger and heavier rifle will often also mean moving to larger and heavier ammo. At that point the size and weight issue starts to compound quickly.

I've heard some good things about a few very small rifles and carbines. I like your point about the weight and size of the pistol, and it's going to be really hard for a larger weapon to match a 1.61lb unloaded weapon weight. It seems like you're making some kind of compromises between capability and size/weight (the firepower vs mobility paradigm). Do you have an idea for where things may change? Basically, to where having a little more capability is worth having a little less size/weight?

I'm thinking about something like a Kel-Tec Sub 2000. It weighs twice as much as the pistol at 4lbs (unloaded), but it increases your weapon range by a lot and maintains the same weight per round of ammo. So, would 2.4 pounds be worth the better accuracy and range provided by a 16in barrel and a shouldered stock? The weapon is still very compact.
Image

I've heard people talk about using a child sized .22LR rifle as an emergency rifle (something overheard at the range). This isn't anything I had really considered or researched at all until just now. Many of these weigh in at about 3lbs with a Savage model at 2.95lbs. You would have the light weapon weight. The lighter weight per round ammo (switching from 9mm to 22LR). If you were carrying a couple hundred rounds of ammo the ammo weight may negate the heavier weapon weight (until you had shot through some amount of that ammo and still had the heavier weapon with many fewer rounds of ammo - but realistically, if you bug out and find yourself going through a couple hundred rounds of ammo, the weight of your child sized 22LR weapon won't likely be too high on your list of priorities).
Image

Some people like the AR-7 and at 3.5lbs it's still relatively light weight and still uses the super light weight .22LR ammo. I don't own one personally, but I've been told by owners that they're difficult to use for any sustained periods of time because of the stock barrel (this can be changed out, of course, making the barrel issue moot).
Image

It also seems like it may be possible to get some kind of increased accuracy out of a glock stock. I've not used one and can't speak to their effectiveness. But, if your goal is to have a super lightweight weapon system, a 7oz stock for your glock may help stabilize and eliminate some of the benefit of changing the pistol to a rifle (the barrel size is still a pretty big thing).
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:20 am 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 5:56 am
Posts: 1101
Location: Iowa, USA
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 106 times
zero11010 wrote:
glock stock


Once you put it on, you have a SBR. So you need to factor that in.


corrsk wrote:
What I am thinking is that a pistol would be far superior to a rifle in a big out where you had to travel on foot for a long distance.


I suppose it all depends on what you are comfortable with, plan for, and what the situation is.
I would disagree, but it doesn't mean that I'm right and you are wrong. Just that I don't agree.

The one thing I would point out is on the lines of what has already been stated.
angelofwar wrote:
Where they do excel in purpose is in sentry/gaurd duty,

If you are bugging out, I doubt you just plan to wander aimlessly forever.
The logical conclusion of bugging out is that you are going somewhere.
And when you get there and settle in - having that long arm could be very helpful.

So for the actual BO - if you are most comfortable with a pistol, so be it.
But if you have somewhere you are going, you might want to have something a bit longer waiting for you when you get there.

_________________
... I will show you fear in a handful of dust...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:58 am 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:08 am
Posts: 2648
Location: Coastal SC
Has thanked: 268 times
Been thanked: 335 times
zero,

Personally I am not a fan of the AR-7, so I purchased a 10/22 TD model.

As to .22LR being the survival rifle, maybe you'll want to look into air rifles. There's a whole thread on here discussing them: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=114460&hilit=air+rifle Yes, they are a bit heavier and there are many types of "propulsion" from nitro pistons, CO2, Springs, PCP, etc. Each has its own pros/cons. But to make up for the rifle weight, ammo is insanely light :) Approximately 133 .22 LR is a pound, while approximately 500 14g .22 pellets = 1 pound.

And now that they have molds to make your own pellets, imo it is becoming more feasible as a long term solution for small game. Here's one as an example: http://airgunpelletmaker.weebly.com/

_________________
jnathan wrote:
Since we lost some posts due to some database work I'll just put this here for posterity.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:02 am 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:42 am
Posts: 5110
Location: Watching over Metropolis
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 123 times
Try hunting for deer or hogs with that 10MM Glock and get back to me about how well it works as a hunting tool. I hope your stalking technique allows you to get within 25 yards.

The idea of pistol as primary depends a lot on your likely environment, doesn't it? In a big city like NYC, with high crime areas, odds of needing a firearm are increased if your route requires passing through such an area. Some of the small towns upstate near the city aren't a lot better.

Last time I went to Cincinnati I recall your state being somewhat urbanized, but not as bad as southern NY.

I don't recall air rifles having all that much range compared to a .22LR.

_________________
My son, you will travel far, but never be alone, for I am with you, my M14 and battle axe comfort you.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:09 am 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 8:00 am
Posts: 2265
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 108 times
NamelessStain wrote:
zero,

Personally I am not a fan of the AR-7, so I purchased a 10/22 TD model.

As to .22LR being the survival rifle, maybe you'll want to look into air rifles. There's a whole thread on here discussing them: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=114460&hilit=air+rifle Yes, they are a bit heavier and there are many types of "propulsion" from nitro pistons, CO2, Springs, PCP, etc. Each has its own pros/cons. But to make up for the rifle weight, ammo is insanely light :) Approximately 133 .22 LR is a pound, while approximately 500 14g .22 pellets = 1 pound.

And now that they have molds to make your own pellets, imo it is becoming more feasible as a long term solution for small game. Here's one as an example: http://airgunpelletmaker.weebly.com/


Ditto to this

Maybe the current Henry version of the AR-7 is more reliable, but all in all the Ruger 10/22 takedown is hard to beat and I also bought one recently. 10/22 are usually very reliable and you have a solid feeling, regular shaped (ergos) rifle in a small lightweight package when takendown. The other bonus is with the Ruger factor 25 round mags, you have a high capacity, reliable .22. God Forbid you get into a self defense gun fight with a .22lr rifle, you want the ability to shoot multiple rounds quickly. Most other .22lr break down rifles like the Marlin Papoose and the AR-7 have 8 to 10 round mags, and if they have a hi-capacity mag its usually not very reliable. Also back in the day the AR-7 were kind of cheap, but these days they are selling for over $200, or basically the same as a standard 10/22.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/prod ... R+Black+22

But going back to the pistol vs. rifle thing. I think this has been mentioned before on ZS, most realistic SHTF events when you need to bug out, the best option will probably be a pistol and a few mags. The likelihood you will be openly walking around with an AR, or hunting for food during your bugout with a .22 or a pellet gun
is really, really slim. Having a AR and a 10/22 is still a good thing to have but not super important in a bugout.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:19 am 
Offline
* * *

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:35 pm
Posts: 453
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri
Has thanked: 150 times
Been thanked: 33 times
I can't speak for bug out situations -- my family plans to bug in during trouble. But as far as for hiking? Ideally, I would carry a .44 magnum with a 6 inch barrel in case we accidentally encountered something big and aggressive, and the usual EDC stuff (including my 9mm) in case we encountered a human who tried to harm us. (Maybe a can of bear spray, too.)

Hunting with a pistol seems difficult... one would have to get a lot closer stealthily than is needed for rifle range.

Just my two cents.
-Neptune

_________________
"When it comes to justifiable use of deadly force, you should seek to avoid confrontation, unless you have no choice and your life is on the line. This is easier to say than to do because it requires that you be calm and peace-loving throughout your life, but ready to use deadly force at any moment."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:23 am 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:28 pm
Posts: 677
Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida
Has thanked: 329 times
Been thanked: 70 times
When a rifle's an option, it's usually the answer :awesome:
In a all seriousness though, I agree with most points being made, especially for bugging out.
But I'd argue that pistols are not better for home defense, at least for me personally. One major thing is that with my sling on my rifle, the rifle is attached to me and is harder to grab from me if there's a struggle.
On to the comments from people who are probably much smarter than me :clap:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:06 am 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:08 am
Posts: 2648
Location: Coastal SC
Has thanked: 268 times
Been thanked: 335 times
jor-el wrote:
Try hunting for deer or hogs with that 10MM Glock and get back to me about how well it works as a hunting tool. I hope your stalking technique allows you to get within 25 yards.

The idea of pistol as primary depends a lot on your likely environment, doesn't it? In a big city like NYC, with high crime areas, odds of needing a firearm are increased if your route requires passing through such an area. Some of the small towns upstate near the city aren't a lot better.

Last time I went to Cincinnati I recall your state being somewhat urbanized, but not as bad as southern NY.

I don't recall air rifles having all that much range compared to a .22LR.


It really depends on the type of air rifle. PCP rifles and Big bore rifles shoot up to 200 yards (some have claimed) but I've read people using .177 and .22 out to 100 yards. Realistically from my perspective, 50 yards would be my personal limit. Plenty of range for taking small game (squirrel, rabbit, etc) and mercy shots on trapped animals. I currently have mine sighted in for about 35 yards and with no wind, I can shoot quarter sized groups consistently.

There are several vids on youtube showing guys taking turkeys with air rifles: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... let+turkey


Edit: I'm using a Bejamin Trail NP.

_________________
jnathan wrote:
Since we lost some posts due to some database work I'll just put this here for posterity.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:12 am 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:55 pm
Posts: 1856
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 90 times
I think the elephant (gun) in the room is this:

Are we bugging out on foot or vehicle?

On foot, I'm not bugging out with my "battle rifle" unless it's complete nut's outside (i.e. LA Riots,, etc.). I'll have two pistols and the .22 folded up in my bag.

Vehicle....definitely bringing the battle rifle plus some. But...you get half way to your BO location and your vehicle breaks down...due to the chaos, your insurance company can't do nothing, and the towing companies ae not at work...where do you go from there? Do you set-up camp nearby? Do you continue to your BO location, and do you take your rifle? Can you take your rifle? Do you hide your larger heavier weapons nearby and come back to get them later hoping they're still there? Do you leave them in the vehile and chalk it up a loss?

Here's a link to the Chiappa Little Badger:

http://www.slickguns.com/sites/default/files/l_littlebadger_0_0.jpg

http://www.slickguns.com/sites/default/files/l_littlebadger_0_0.jpg

_________________
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts..."
http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=94046&p=2141127&hilit=survival+bow#p2141127

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:31 am 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:08 am
Posts: 2648
Location: Coastal SC
Has thanked: 268 times
Been thanked: 335 times
angelofwar wrote:


Saw them at the last gun show, just a bit high in price for me to pick one up. They were asking $239.

_________________
jnathan wrote:
Since we lost some posts due to some database work I'll just put this here for posterity.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:20 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 3:45 pm
Posts: 2435
Has thanked: 1275 times
Been thanked: 350 times
Some relevant quotes:
Quote:
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: I don't plan on any shooting taking place during this job.
Jayne Cobb: Well, what you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar.


1) We can choose what to plan for. But planning to not need a rifle seems ill advised to me. Planning to grab whatever seems best at the moment seems better.

2) Making hits with a pistol will always be more difficult than making hits with a long gun.

3) Terminal performance is better with long guns than with pistols. Even when comparing apples to oranges. But when comparing apples to clowns, you can find pistols with better terminal performance than some long guns.

4) Ammo weight. 9mm = 5.56. But 10 mm > 5.56. Weight of weapon is important and offsets that a bit, until your ammo count gets high enough. Rifle caliber pistols can close the weight gap rapidly.

5) Cost. Glock < AR (mostly). Glock = AK (mostly). 10mm > 5.56. 10mm >> 5.45x39. 10mm >>> 7.62x39. At the moment, 10mm almost = 7.62x51 (using cheapest available listed for each on Ammoseek).

6) Mag costs.....

7) Training costs.

8) Concealment. Pistol > rifle. Even when looking at rifle cal pistols.

9) BGs in armor.....

10) Hunting with pistols is cool. So is hunting with a bow. I'd prefer a long gun.

_____________________________________________________________________________

Lastly, we can plan to bug in, but what we plan for and what is required by the circumstances might differ. I"m planning on a half-dozen playboy bunnies showing up on my doorstep needing shelter and a warm bed. Which reminds me, I need to buy more massage oils.....

Seriously folks. Just please be flexible in planning.

_________________
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:45 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:08 am
Posts: 2648
Location: Coastal SC
Has thanked: 268 times
Been thanked: 335 times
woodsghost wrote:
5) Cost. Glock < AR (mostly). Glock = AK (mostly). 10mm > 5.56. 10mm >> 5.45x39. 10mm >>> 7.62x39. At the moment, 10mm almost = 7.62x51 (using cheapest available listed for each on Ammoseek).



Woodghost, can you PM me an Arsenal AK at Glock prices, I would definitely be interested. :clap:

_________________
jnathan wrote:
Since we lost some posts due to some database work I'll just put this here for posterity.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:15 pm 
Offline
* * *

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:24 pm
Posts: 586
Has thanked: 100 times
Been thanked: 98 times
NamelessStain wrote:
zero,

Personally I am not a fan of the AR-7, so I purchased a 10/22 TD model.

As to .22LR being the survival rifle, maybe you'll want to look into air rifles. There's a whole thread on here discussing them: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=114460&hilit=air+rifle


I like the 10/22 a lot. I own one and enjoy it (and choose not to own an AR-7). But, a critical factor here from the OP is weight, right? When I drive to a shooting range I don't care too much about the weight of the gun.

The basic 10/22 weighs 5lbs. The take down version is 4.67lbs. If weight is critical in the scenario for the OP I have to wonder if the 10/22 is really 33% better. It's 33% heavier (than the AR-7 and 290% heavier than the glock). You have to carry that extra weight at all times. So, how often are the superior capabilities of the 10/22 going to come in handy over the AR-7. Then we could go back and compare it to one of the kid's 22LR rifles weighing in at 2.95lbs. They shoot the same round, they're both rifles, they both of similar length barrels, but the 10/22 weighs almost twice as much. Weight is the key factor here and the 10/22 is a little heavy. It's not ridiculous, don't get me wrong. But the goal here is to get the smallest lighting weapon with the most capability. Hell, the takedown 10/22 is heavier than the 9mm Kel-Tec sub2000, it takes longer to get the 10/22 ready from a collapsed position, and it's firing the less impressive 22LR round.

To be clear, I think everyone would agree that in general the 10/22 is superior to the AR-7. That doesn't mean the AR-7 doesn't have it's place though. And, the scenario at hand is exactly where the AR-7 shines.

I think the bit about the air rifles is interesting, but I don't know enough about them or the ballistic information the weapons are capable of.


I kinda side with the original poster here. I think the pistol is about all I would need in an emergency. I'm curious to see what kind of points we able to come up with to make the heavier weapons stand out.


This is an interesting conversation!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:51 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 3:45 pm
Posts: 2435
Has thanked: 1275 times
Been thanked: 350 times
NamelessStain wrote:
woodsghost wrote:
5) Cost. Glock < AR (mostly). Glock = AK (mostly). 10mm > 5.56. 10mm >> 5.45x39. 10mm >>> 7.62x39. At the moment, 10mm almost = 7.62x51 (using cheapest available listed for each on Ammoseek).



Woodghost, can you PM me an Arsenal AK at Glock prices, I would definitely be interested. :clap:



I'll keep my eye out ;) But I'm pretty sure I can find a used WASR. Maybe a new one. I even saw some DPMS ARs on gunbroker for real close to Glock prices.

_________________
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:42 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 5:56 am
Posts: 1101
Location: Iowa, USA
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 106 times
angelofwar wrote:
I think the elephant (gun) in the room is this:

Are we bugging out on foot or vehicle?

...

On foot, I'm not bugging out with my "battle rifle" unless it's complete nut's outside (i.e. LA Riots,, etc.).


corrsk wrote:
What I am thinking is that a pistol would be far superior to a rifle in a big out where you had to travel on foot for a long distance.

Most who plan on bugging out intend to drive as far as they can. If that's the case we all know we will be fully loaded. However should the worst happen it is wise to have a plan based on the situation.


corrsk pretty much addressed that in the OP, and said that if you can drive - take the kitchen sink if you can (ok, maybe he didn't say it that way... :crazy: )
His thoughts are based on a long distance move on foot. At least that is how I read it.

_________________
... I will show you fear in a handful of dust...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Pistols as primary
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:35 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:33 pm
Posts: 292
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times
Yes in this scenario this is based on a long distance traveled on foot.

You also have to take into consideration your health and fitness level. For me I've been out of the army for about a year. If it's less than 25 miles I would take my rifle and pistol. Once you start getting past that distance the 12-15ish pounds of rifle and ammo add up very quickly.

I'd get as far as I could in a vehicle with every pistol and rifle and all the ammo I have. But should the vehicle break down then the rifle is staying with the vehicle.

If I'm bugging out I have a wife and a 7 year old son. Corrsk jr won't be hauling much because of his size and age. So the wife and I are going to have to make up for that. Ditching the rifle means I can haul for food and water for the little guy.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group