It's starting (again).....

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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by MacAttack » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:31 am

I'm lucky.

I have a local source for reloads I trust. A federally licensed reloader who takes fired brass and raw lead in exchange for FMJ reloads. In the end it costs me the same as if I did the reloads myself. Sometimes cheaper.
And since all I practice with is reloads I'm quite satisfied.
At the height of the last scare I managed to get 500 .380acps for 80 bucks or so when no one in the world had .380 for sale.

I still reload my shotshells though. 20 and 12.

Even if he stops selling to the public(which he does sometimes) I can still do my own reloads. Dillon 650.



But as I learned buy a little extra each time you buy and save it. Since doing this I have saved up over 2000 rnds for practice in each caliber I shoot. Plus 200 plus rounds in defensive ammo for each.

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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by Crazy Wolf » Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:23 am

Czechnology wrote:I recall 5.56/.223 went up in price like crazy right around spring of 2003 for some reason... 8-)

Wonder if the draw-down will help that at all?
Probably a *bit*, but there exists the possibility that the government will want to build up its stockpiles during peacetime, probably not to Cold War levels, but still to have some reserves for whichever conflict we're next involved in.
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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by zobmiedown » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:21 am

As I see it the draw down may help as there will be less people shotting during training. But then it really depends on what is being drawn down. If the infantry levels stay the same and they keep the same training and deployment schedules probably not. Think about it like this. If all the draw down is in the motor pool who only train once a year then it does not change ammo supply levels that significantly vs. if it is fighting forces that train weekly.
Regulators mount up.

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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by zobmiedown » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:22 pm

Ok all,

According to this from http://www.businessinsider.com/us-immig ... mmo-2012-3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Homeland security has entered into a contract for 450 Million Hollow Points in 40 S&W.

The same article states that Homeland Security is also in an open bid to procure 175 Million rounds of .223.

According to http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/border_secur ... er_patrol/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; The USBP has 20,000 agents in the field.

I realize Homeland Security has other agencies under them.

So two questions remain. One is this a averly large amount of ammo? Two is will this increase the cost of ammo in these calibers for the rest of us?
Regulators mount up.

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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by eugene » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:27 pm

I added to the numbers myself,bought my first gun last week. I have a couple rifles already bought by my parents when I was a kid so this was my first purchase putting my name on the lists.
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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by FlashDaddy » Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:35 am

Interesting article http://azstarnet.com/news/local/az-sees ... 3cb3a.html
that notes some facts indicating an increase in sales of ammo and guns as well as some of the reasons why. Here are some excerpts:
Gun and ammunition sales in Arizona are surging as several factors, including the upcoming presidential election, combine to spur buyers on. It's the second major spike in sales since President Obama was elected in November 2008. At that time, some types of ammunition ran out in Tucson and customers stocked up on high-powered rifles they suspected Obama would try to ban. While that panic purchasing subsided by late 2009, gun and ammo sales have continued at a brisk clip since and are rising again. "This is a surge within a surge," said John Lott, an economist and author of "More Guns, Less Crime."

In fact, the FBI conducted more instant background checks in Arizona in February - 30,320 - than in any month since the system went into effect in 2008. While not a precise reflection of gun sales, the checks are a strong indicator, experts say, because they are conducted each time a person buys a gun from a licensed firearms dealer.

...

But local retailers and customers also noted that there is always an increase this time of year, when people get their tax refunds. This year it seems to be exaggerated not only by the election but by the economic recovery and the liberalization of gun laws.

Whatever the reason, the signs of surging sales are clear nationwide. On Wednesday, gun manufacturer Sturm, Ruger & Co. announced it is no longer taking new orders because it received orders for more than 1 million units in January and February. The company, which has one of its two manufacturing plants in Prescott, can no longer increase production to keep up with demand, it said. Upon Obama's election, so-called "assault" rifles were in greatest demand, said Bret Jordan, a financial analyst of the firearms industry for Avondale Partners in Boston. As time passed and the administration didn't try to renew the ban on these weapons, demand for them declined, but demand for personal-defense weapons kept growing, Jordan said. Now, once again, he said, there's "a strong demand in firearms viewed as politically vulnerable."

That's also true of the ammunition used in those weapons. Doug MacKinlay, owner of Diamondback Police Supply, has found it hard to keep up inventory of the .223-caliber ammunition, used in many high-powered semiautomatic rifles. Demand for self-defense weapons also remains high. Ken Taub was looking at a Sig Sauer P250 pistol Friday at Second Amendment Sports. Taub already has a shotgun, he said, but the birth of a new child, the arrival of his tax return and the new state law eliminating the requirement for a concealed-carry permit inspired him to look for a handgun.

...
The idea that Obama, unshackled by the need to pursue re-election, will go for gun control in his second term has spread since Wayne LaPierre, head of the National Rifle Association, first said it in September. And it may be a factor driving the new surge in sales. The "Obama factor" that caused the 2008-2009 sales spike has revived, said Lawrence Keane, senior vice president and general counsel of the National Shooting Sports Foundation, a firearms-industry group.
...
Such rhetoric is designed to motivate gun-rights voters to work against the Democrats, said Robert Spitzer, a political science professor at the State University of New York at Cortland and author of "The Politics of Gun Control." But it can also convince some concerned gun owners that they should buy firearms now.

The firearms industry argues that the surge in gun sales also represents a spreading of firearms ownership in American society. An October 2011 Gallup Poll showed a spike in the percentage of households where residents have a gun. In 2010, 41 percent of respondents to the same survey said there were guns in their home, but in 2011 the number jumped to 47 percent. That jump followed a general downward drift in gun ownership in the history of that poll, since it hit 54 percent in 1993.
...
The recent argument of NRA head Wayne LaPierre, that President Obama would pursue gun control in a second term, can benefit the group financially in a roundabout way, critics say. But his defenders say LaPierre is right about the threat Obama poses to gun rights in at least one key aspect. LaPierre's scary rhetoric can serve as marketing for the firearms industry, which in turn supports the NRA, said Josh Sugarmann, executive director of the Violence Policy Center in Washington, D.C. He noted that gun manufacturer Sturm, Ruger & Co., which is unable to keep up with demand now, is donating $1 to the NRA for every firearm it sells this year, up to a maximum of $1 million.

But Todd Rathner, a Tucsonan who is on the NRA's board of directors, said Obama's possible re-election poses a real, not rhetorical, danger to gun ownership. He noted that the U.S. Supreme Court's 2008 Heller decision, which affirmed the people's right to keep and bear arms outside of the context of militias, was a 5-4 vote.

...Read more: http://azstarnet.com/news/local/az-sees ... z1qhCeNoZD" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by zobmiedown » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:20 am

I have to agree with this atricle. I have eight friends who did not own guns prior to this year and who are now looking at additional gun purchases. The change in laws is the least of thier thought on this as they do not concealed carry but more a fear of the future wether political, economoical, viral, or catostrophic natural diaster. Possible yes; probable maybe not; but the fact is they are generally worried and now purchasing firearms and stocking up on ammo for what ever threat they percieve. Granted one of them only purchased a .22 revolver but the point is he did in fact purchase a gun and 1000 rounds to feed it. I also have realtives who have started reloading to save money and stock up on ammo for the future. I think more and more americans are worried about the future. After all this is a preppers web site and by nature it means we are all worried about things as well. I understand all that my final point is that it seems to me that more and more people are coming to the prepper side where we have freeze dried cookies. :lol:
Regulators mount up.

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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by I_Hate_George_Lucas » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:10 pm

zobmiedown wrote:Ok all,

According to this from http://www.businessinsider.com/us-immig ... mmo-2012-3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Homeland security has entered into a contract for 450 Million Hollow Points in 40 S&W.

The same article states that Homeland Security is also in an open bid to procure 175 Million rounds of .223.

According to http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/border_secur ... er_patrol/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; The USBP has 20,000 agents in the field.

I realize Homeland Security has other agencies under them.

So two questions remain. One is this a averly large amount of ammo? Two is will this increase the cost of ammo in these calibers for the rest of us?
The majority of Federal Agencies train with the duty ammo. Yeah, it's costly to do so but it's done so there is no difference in training. Back then agencies would train with a cheaper round and then issue the duty ammo. Some differences between types is less recoil and different point of impact which in turn is bad for muscle memory and skill. It was common to practice with really weak .38 Special Wadcutters and then issue a 125gr .357 Magnum load. Big difference with the way the gun will handle with the duty load versus the training load. That all changed when the 1986 FBI Shootout happened in Miami as did many other things in the way police train and carry.
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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by zobmiedown » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:17 pm

Im blaming this. I took the test for USBP in Nov last year. This week they emailed me a tentative job offer.

They must have need that quantity for hiring me because they must know I love to shoot...... :lol:

I fully agree with training with the same ammo you use for duty carry for the reasons above.
Regulators mount up.

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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by ROCK6 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:38 am

Luckily, although I sitting here in Afghanistan and don’t redeploy until June, I’ve been able to order ammo. I recently ordered three cases of .223 and a case of 7.62x39mm. I’ll try and pick up a few more cases and include some pistol ammo. My son is planning out my summer with a lot of range time, so I might as well make it hurt now!

Another option is to pick up another .22LR conversion kit for the AR and finally get my .22 conversion kit for the Glock. We’re planning some movement drills and using different positions/cover….22LR would be more than sufficient for the slow, initial runs…

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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by Crow » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:53 pm

All the websites that I have been looking at AK47/74's are all out of stock now =(

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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by zobmiedown » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:41 pm

OK with out getting into the politics of the election I am just wondering if every one is leaning towards firearms purchases, Hi cap magazines, ammo stockpiles now?

I know the local gun shop owners ( I asked them yesterday while I was running around town) here are ordering large quantities of firearms in anticipation of a huge run on them especially with the holidays coming up as well.

I picked up three USGI AR magazines but that was only because the price was too good to pass up at $10 each and no shipping costs and at the same time 100 rounds to feed them at $7.50 a box.

What is everyones thoughts on priorities now?
Regulators mount up.

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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by UndeadInfidel » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:56 pm

zobmiedown wrote:OK with out getting into the politics of the election I am just wondering if every one is leaning towards firearms purchases, Hi cap magazines, ammo stockpiles now?

I know the local gun shop owners ( I asked them yesterday while I was running around town) here are ordering large quantities of firearms in anticipation of a huge run on them especially with the holidays coming up as well.

I picked up three USGI AR magazines but that was only because the price was too good to pass up at $10 each and no shipping costs and at the same time 100 rounds to feed them at $7.50 a box.

What is everyones thoughts on priorities now?
The same. I have four spare AR15 lowers in my safe, and about 20 30 round magazines I've ordered in the last few months.

I've focused on picking up spare magazines for my 9mm. If I can't have more than 10 rounds in my 9mm, it's pretty worthless to me.
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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by DarkandShiny » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:01 pm

I was at my local gun shop/range yesterday (not because of the election but because I go every Wednesday). And I didn't hear a word about runs, shortages, price increases etc. Yes sales are up but the proprietor of the shop said that was mainly due to the holiday season. He hasn't seen or even heard much about any panic this year. Now mind you I live in Utah where people are generally preparedness minded and the 2008 gun and ammo fiasco is still in memory. So I would doubt we would see a similar situation to four years ago... but I guess anything can happen.

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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by Mikeyboy » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:25 pm

zobmiedown wrote:OK with out getting into the politics of the election I am just wondering if every one is leaning towards firearms purchases, Hi cap magazines, ammo stockpiles now?

I know the local gun shop owners ( I asked them yesterday while I was running around town) here are ordering large quantities of firearms in anticipation of a huge run on them especially with the holidays coming up as well.

I picked up three USGI AR magazines but that was only because the price was too good to pass up at $10 each and no shipping costs and at the same time 100 rounds to feed them at $7.50 a box.

What is everyones thoughts on priorities now?
I got into guns when Bush was in office and the AWB expired. In 2008 when that gun panic started I got caught up in it and stockpiled and paid outragious prices. When things died down I kept buying guns I liked and making sure I had a good stash of mags and ammo to go with it. Right now I'm in a good place.

I'm not going to get caught up in the panic again. Actually I'm considering taking advantage of the panict by selling some of unwanted mags, maybe a gun or two at scalpers prices. The only thing that ticks me off is I wanted to buy one of those S&W Bodyguard .380 and a Ruger SR22 as a Christmas present to myself, but I bet the prices are going to go up on those guns too, even though they would have nothing to do with a possible AWB.

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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by UndeadInfidel » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:32 pm

AR15 lowers and most AR15 magazines have stayed fairly consistent in price online. You aren't paying any more now by ordering them.

Ammo is a different story. I got all my ammo purchases out of the way 8+ months ago.
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It's starting (again).....

Post by hkusp1 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:41 pm

A lot of people have been stockpiling since before the 2008 elections. I think a majority of people are broke or have stocked up so much that there's no point in buying more. I still have quite a few ar lowers left and a few uppers still in stock which is really unusual. If pelosi and feinstein get their way it will be all for nothing because everything will either have to be turned over to the feds, destroyed, or cached where no one can find it.

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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by Crazy Wolf » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:22 pm

So, what was the low point in gun prices between 2008 and 2012? I just started my first stable job in October, so I never really got a chance to buy firearms before this most recent election. I'm going to assume that no new gun laws pass (because if any are passed, then the prices will increase and my question will be rendered moot) between now and 2016.

So, for folks that were buying/selling, say, AR-15s in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, when were the lowest prices available? Is Palmetto State Armory pretty much always the best deal? What was the biggest difference in price noticed?
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Re: Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by K&E ARMS » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:26 am

Crazy Wolf wrote:So, what was the low point in gun prices between 2008 and 2012? I just started my first stable job in October, so I never really got a chance to buy firearms before this most recent election. I'm going to assume that no new gun laws pass (because if any are passed, then the prices will increase and my question will be rendered moot) between now and 2016.

So, for folks that were buying/selling, say, AR-15s in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, when were the lowest prices available? Is Palmetto State Armory pretty much always the best deal? What was the biggest difference in price noticed?
Best price was about 4 months ago
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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by Mikeyboy » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:42 am

Crazy Wolf wrote:So, what was the low point in gun prices between 2008 and 2012? I just started my first stable job in October, so I never really got a chance to buy firearms before this most recent election. I'm going to assume that no new gun laws pass (because if any are passed, then the prices will increase and my question will be rendered moot) between now and 2016.

So, for folks that were buying/selling, say, AR-15s in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, when were the lowest prices available? Is Palmetto State Armory pretty much always the best deal? What was the biggest difference in price noticed?
I agree with what K&E said. This year was probably the cheapest year for AR's in that time frame and prices got real close to pre 2007 levels . In early 2009 I seen Colt ARs sell for over $2,400, if you could find one. Most gun stores had bare shelves in the peak of the panic. Ammo, Mags, most guns were gone or priced triple what they are now. Heck people were willing to pay $600 for an SKS in Late 2008 to Early 2009. A few months ago I seen Colt AR's selling for under $1,000. They were even selling colt 6920 in Walmart. I bought a DPMS AP4 in 2010 for $950 , and just 6 months ago they were selling for under $800 and I kicked myself. I could have bought a Colt 6920 for what I paid for my DPMS. Today, however the AP4 is back up to my 2010 purchase price.

Prices will go up again and panic will start between now and 2013, especially with this talk about Obama administration re-starting negotiations with the UN treaty on small arms. If nothing happens in the next 4 years, you may see it calm down again by 2015 or 2016.

In 2009 it stunk, everyone was shooting .22lr because that was the only ammo available and everyone was afraid to use there stash. If you don't have one, get a .22.

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Re: It's starting (again).....

Post by PistolPete » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:55 pm

hkusp1 wrote:A lot of people have been stockpiling since before the 2008 elections. I think a majority of people are broke or have stocked up so much that there's no point in buying more. I still have quite a few ar lowers left and a few uppers still in stock which is really unusual. If pelosi and feinstein get their way it will be all for nothing because everything will either have to be turned over to the feds, destroyed, or cached where no one can find it.
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